The movie Red Dawn

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-01 06:10pm

Darth Wong wrote:Remember, kids: you too can conquer and occupy America. All you need is a few strategic nukes and some paratroopers

Doesn't the War Department have strategies for a wide variety of circumstances outside the U.S., but none for the invasion of the U.S.?

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-09-01 06:46pm

Darth Wong wrote:Remember, kids: you too can conquer and occupy America. All you need is a few strategic nukes and some paratroopers

--If the right wing conservatives get their wish the U.S. will be lucky to live half the time the Roman Empire did. It isn't like the U.S. has the resources to dominate the world forever....

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 07:04pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Red Dawn was a great movie. I especially like the fact that they actually used Hind-As for the helicopter scene; makes a lot of sense considering those were properly Cuban troops. However, where the heck did they get Hind-As? Or were those modified helicopters of another type?

There not Hind-A's, there Pumas with extensive modifications that have been used for a bunch of movies, basically every Hind in a western movie is one of them. The mod job was more then bolt on crap, they actually altered the airframe IIRC.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 07:07pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
There not Hind-A's, there Pumas with extensive modifications that have been used for a bunch of movies, basically every Hind in a western movie is one of them. The mod job was more then bolt on crap, they actually altered the airframe IIRC.

Ahh! Well, that explains it. Very good, then, at least to my eye--but then my first exposure to a Hind-A variant was the movie.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 07:08pm

Spyder wrote:That movie was a great big pile of shit for reasons stated above and more.

Ok, the full scale soviet invasion... Did the soviet leaders suddenly become retarded and forget completely about the MAD concept?

MAd never has and never will be the doctrine of either side. Anyway it's slightly conceivable that they could have destroyed enough of US nuclear forces in an opening strike to sustain a war after the US counterstrike. The Soviets had a lot of infrastructure and a lot of nuclear weapons where needed to destroy it all. Anyway for the invasion to be possibul at all they'd need to have some huge boost in there military strength not matched by the West.

Where the hell were US infantry and armour? Those communists should have been made to pay for every square inch of soil US soil with a tanker of blood with the amount of bombardment they would have been getting.

Even with every US division, active reserve and national guard fully deployed and unaffected by nuclear attack would still be very thinly spread across the width of the US. Anyway the movie does show US helicopters and jet as being active and we do see at least one M1 tank when they visit the front lines.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 07:09pm

Incidentally, speaking of Soviet Paratroops, here is the "Parachutists' song" or Song of the soviet VDV available for DL:

http://www.sovmusic.ru/mp3/para.mp3

You don't have to split up harmless links ~ Stombringer

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 07:14pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:They were MiG-28s in Top Gun, so that can be sorta okay given they didn't use an actual MiG model. That and Hollywood movie studios can't go to the USSR and ask for some MiGs for a photoshoot.

The hard part isn't finding MiG's, Egypt for example could provide them. It a matter of matching up the MiG's and the F-14's. The USN wouldn't allow filming using a carrier group on deployment and bringing some MiG's from Africa to California would be rather expensive.

Course what's also stupid is the MiG-28's where said to be carrying Exocet missiles which where then credited with a 100 mile range, which is about three times what it can actually do in addition to the whole "its French not Soviet" thing.

The helos in Rambo 3 were all Aerospatiales, IIRC. The Hind-D being a Westland Puma Mk.1 with a shitload of add-ons.

The Rambo movies used the same modified Pumas as Red Dawn and Gazelles I believe.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-09-01 08:45pm

Darth Wong wrote:Remember, kids: you too can conquer and occupy America. All you need is a few strategic nukes and some paratroopers

IIRC, the opening scrawl had stuff about Cubans and others invading Mexico and stuff, so they probably managed to get some of the tanks and stuff rolling in from there. The paratroopers I think were just softening up/establishing a beach head or whatever.

But my memory of the movie is spotty.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 10:02pm

Well, I suppose sixty modern Soviet divisions with T-80s and T-72s supported by a built-up infrastructure in a communist Mexico, proceeding to punch across the Rio Grande and fighting through Texas to gain manoeuvring room on the Great Plains and then cut the USA and Canada in half would be serious, but the plausibility of the Communist Mexican Buildup still falls short.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-01 10:03pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well, I suppose sixty modern Soviet divisions with T-80s and T-72s supported by a built-up infrastructure in a communist Mexico, proceeding to punch across the Rio Grande and fighting through Texas to gain manoeuvring room on the Great Plains and then cut the USA and Canada in half would be serious, but the plausibility of the Communist Mexican Buildup still falls short.

The part about how they move all these divisions into Mexico without anyone noticing is also a slight stretch.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 10:04pm

Darth Wong wrote: The part about how they move all these divisions into Mexico without anyone noticing is also a slight stretch.

Yes. It wasn't good because it was realistic, obviously.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-01 10:11pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well, I suppose sixty modern Soviet divisions with T-80s and T-72s supported by a built-up infrastructure in a communist Mexico, proceeding to punch across the Rio Grande and fighting through Texas to gain manoeuvring room on the Great Plains and then cut the USA and Canada in half would be serious, but the plausibility of the Communist Mexican Buildup still falls short.

Problem is there stated to have come down from Alaska. The fact that there is exactly one road, which is not paved and has some bridges which could only take a single lane of traffic seems not to have slowed them much. The suspension technology gap was rather larger then we first suspected..

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-09-01 10:13pm

FaxModem1 wrote:The movie Red Dawn. I thought it was interesting as a piece of alternate history, what do ya'll think of it as?

Moronic.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-01 10:20pm

Of course, in the realm of someone who has watched Red Dawn one too many times, I present the website of:

http://www.thesilent invasion.com/

The Silent Invasion, or, a conspiracy theorist claiming that there is a secret plot by China, Cuba, and the DPRK to invade America through Mexico. Have fun.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-02 12:28am

Horrible, horrible film. I was so embarassed watching it. Things that pissed me off:

- The VDV (that's paratroopers for those who haven't figured it out), the elite of the Soviet military, are dropped in a school football field- and blast the shit out of the school, going berzerk, and even using their RPG-7s on doors. Sure.

- The BMD-1 can't hit a pickup truck at under 100m. Whatever.

- A bunch of kids pretending to be guerillas can ambush VDV in a forest and kill them ALL without taking one casualty. Whatever.

- An F-15 can go up against five MiG-23s and 'get' four.

- An M1 needs a marker flare to hit a T-72

- VDV officers are in the habit of riding around in T-72s, without any other vehicles, to pick up GASOLINE from a commercial petrol station.

Quite frankly my brain fucking hurts.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-09-02 01:07am

Vympel wrote: - An M1 needs a marker flare to hit a T-72

I remember that.

"Well, I was up against 5 of them and I got 4."

He was shot down just as the odds were getting into his favor.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-09-02 02:39am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Of course, in the realm of someone who has watched Red Dawn one too many times, I present the website of:

http://www.thesilent invasion.com/

The Silent Invasion, or, a conspiracy theorist claiming that there is a secret plot by China, Cuba, and the DPRK to invade America through Mexico. Have fun.

It looks like a 'buy my book filled with outrageous bullshit' site rather than anything I can actually read and ridicule without putting down some of my cash.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-09-03 02:35am

Thing is if he invasion DOES happen and the US kicks them out of the US...what do you think will happen to Mexico???? Other than there staging areas becoming slightly radioactive during the fighting?

Zed Snardbody · Post by **Zed Snardbody** » 2003-09-03 05:49am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well, I suppose sixty modern Soviet divisions with T-80s and T-72s supported by a built-up infrastructure in a communist Mexico, proceeding to punch across the Rio Grande and fighting through Texas to gain manoeuvring room on the Great Plains and then cut the USA and Canada in half would be serious, but the plausibility of the Communist Mexican Buildup still falls short.

please, we all know that a mexican invasion through texas is imposible. No one can take texas, Texas will last long after the US crumbles and the ice nigge...I mean canadians move in and pick up the peices. That state has more fire power than some nations.

Dargos · Post by **Dargos** » 2003-09-03 06:51am

Well lets see.. I saw this film back in 1984-85 time frame so I was 13 or 14 at the time. I did enjoy it alot. Good Male teenager film for its time.

Let's see if I can dredge up some memorys here.

Opening scrawl Cuba, Nicroagua, and some other Commie Central American country have reached their goals of having a 500,000 man standing army each, NATO is disolved, America Stands alone.

Nukes were used. England and 700,000,000 screaming China men are on Americas side but England is not expected to last long.

Vymple...that wasn't an M-1... it was an M-60(it was at least a tank that did NOT have the characteristic Flat top) at an estemated range of at least 1500-2000 meters.

Those paratroopers landing in the school yard were not russian..they were speaking spanish. (granted the shooting up the school was a BIT over much)

I did like the "From my Cold dead hand" bumper sticker sceen

IIRC both brothers die at the end. Mortally wounded older brother (Swayze)carrying dead or mortally wounded unconsious younger brother(Sheen) to a playground and sit on a swing set to wait for Daddy to come get them.

One or both of the sisters are alluded to have been raped by enemy soldiers (see campfire sceen )
Jock(dont remeber name) "What do you got up your ass"

Sister(going psyco and practically jumping over fire to get at jock " You say that again and I'll kill you.(something along those lines)

I liked the part where over the camp fire after Airforce explains war situation.

Airforce- "Son all that hate is going to burn you up"

kid( hes carving kill marks on the butt stock of his AK) "It keeps me warm.

BTW this movie shows events happeing over months or perhaps over a year.

Lucius Licinius Lucullus · Post by **Lucius Licinius Lucullus** » 2003-09-03 06:54am

Sea Skimmer wrote: Course what's also stupid is the MiG-28's where said to be carrying Exocet missiles which where then credited with a 100 mile range, which is about three times what it can actually do in addition to the whole "its French not Soviet" thing.

The most likely reason of this is because just a few years earlier the British lost a bunch of ships to the Exocet missile. HMS Sheffield was the first one IIRC.
And what is more stupid, is that I have never heard of MiG-28´s before or afther this movie.

Dargos · Post by **Dargos** » 2003-09-03 07:11am

Vympel wrote:Horrible, horrible film. I was so embarassed watching it. Things that pissed me off:

- The BMD-1 can't hit a pickup truck at under 100m. Whatever.

It only fired a few rounds at the truck...and hit the truck. And it seemed to be more than 100m to me. The BMD-1 also was almost imeadiatly attacked and destroyed by a UH-1 Huey useing FFARs. Thats what saved the truck from being destroyed.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-09-03 08:34am

Red Dawn, in Germany named "Die rote Flut", is one of the most idiotic movies I have ever seen. It ranks somewere between '1 and '5 on my ever-shitlist. Not only is the plot stupid, the acting is so bad, that you want to call Amnesty International.
I wonder, how they so it, to produce such pieces of junk?

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-09-03 09:26am

/sigh
ou guys are foretting the Best scene in the movie. the most accurate and arguably the most entertaining.
"Yeah"
"Yeah what?"
"Get up there and PISS in the Radiator."

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-03 09:53am

Lucius Licinius Lucullus wrote: And what is more stupid, is that I have never heard of MiG-28´s before or afther this movie.

Of course you haven't! There's no such thing as a MiG-28.

They didn't have access to any real MiGs, so they had to improvise using some old F-5s...