Right to Bear Arms useless?

[Stravo]

The NRA and gun supporters will always point to one argument concerning the right to bear arms, that an armed populace cannot be oppressed, but as has been pointed out in the past a professional soldier and his army have almost nothing to worry about from civilian weapons.

So what is the point of bearing arms when the simple fact of the matter is that if the Government is coming for you there's nothing you can do? If the US decided to ship off Americans with Canadian blood into death camps, there's basically nothing they can do about it. If every Canadian blooded American got a hold of a shot gun or 9mm pistol would that stop a squad of Marines from taking him away?

With the lethality of modern military equipment and training, has this argument been rendered moot? Is it impossible for an armed populace to resist a super power government like The US. For instance would an armed populace have stopped the USSR from oppressing it populace?

[Joe]

It certainly doesn't make the right to bear arms useless. You still have the right to self-defense.

[MKSheppard]

If every Canadian blooded American got a hold of a shot gun or 9mm pistol would that stop a squad of Marines from taking him away?

Um, go look up the late unpleasantness.

[Stormbringer]

You can take over, but an armed to the teeth population is going to be a bitch to garrison.

[Sea Skimmer]

To win a guerrilla war an advantage in numbers of approximately twenty to one is necessary. The entire US military meanwhile is outnumbered many times over by gun owners. Heavy equipment isn't much of an advantage, it can secure points andi t can raid and sieze well defined objectives but beyound that its not of all that much use, you need big masses of leg infantry.

Now If the government can field a squad for every man who resists then resisting might not accomplish much, unless you can organize ahead of time in which case its Warsaw at the least, but that's a disparity that's not likely to be reached in America.

Anyway the real value is that of deterrence, as long as all the guns are around the fight simply isn't going to happen. A government bent on such massive oppressive would begin a political and social campaign to rid the nation of those guns first, and stopping that is the real fight. Plus guns still remain highly valuable for self-protection and recreation regardless of their value in a civil war.

[Gil Hamilton]

It's not much of an issue anyway, since by the time the political climate has changed enough that America could go totalitarian, there would be a social climate to support it. That means there would already be a very large pro-dictatorial movement in the United States with a fair amount of those gun owners, if not a majority, being apart of it.

[Nathan F]

If it actually got to the point of a government being so oppressive to it's people that the people would take up arms, you could count on having a few National Guard and regular military units taking up arms with you. That added support plus a few million gun owners would present quite the challenge to even the most advanced military.

[Alyeska]

Specificaly when dealing with a modern military the right to bear arms will have relatively little impact. At best the civilians would make a nuicance factor. However the right to bear arms for recreational and self defense purposes is still very important. It comes from the basic requirements of freedom where the government must allow actions unless it can provide tangible proof said actions are a serious threat to society.

[Gil Hamilton]

If it actually got to the point of a government being so oppressive to it's people that the people would take up arms, you could count on having a few National Guard and regular military units taking up arms with you. That added support plus a few million gun owners would present quite the challenge to even the most advanced military.

Of course they would, since they are sworn to defend the Constitution, not the government. But I'd say if the political and social climate was such that such a shift to a dictatorship was possible, a majority of people in the country would already be on board with it. There may not be that many gun owners or military out their that are against the new regime to stop it, because that regime had probably been growing and shaping itself for quite a long time at that point.

[MKSheppard]

Specificaly when dealing with a modern military the right to bear arms will have relatively little impact. At best the civilians would make a nuicance factor.

Uhm the crews of tanks do have to come out to piss, you know.

[Alyeska]

Specificaly when dealing with a modern military the right to bear arms will have relatively little impact. At best the civilians would make a nuicance factor.

Uhm the crews of tanks do have to come out to piss, you know.

Yes, but in all reality the people with said weapons would be ill prepared to fight professional soldiers.

[MKSheppard]

Yes, but in all reality the people with said weapons would be ill prepared to fight professional soldiers.

You don't need to be well prepared to snipe troops from long distance

[Stravo]

Yes, but in all reality the people with said weapons would be ill prepared to fight professional soldiers.

You don't need to be well prepared to snipe troops from long distance

But you do have to be skilled and allowed to get close enough. How many civilians have the skill to snipe? The DC Sniper was ex military.

[MKSheppard]

But you do have to be skilled and allowed to get close enough. How many civilians have the skill to snipe?

Uhm, everyone in Virginia on Day #1 of the hunting season?

[Stormbringer]

Yes, but in all reality the people with said weapons would be ill prepared to fight professional soldiers.

You don't need to be well prepared to snipe troops from long distance

But you do have to be skilled and allowed to get close enough. How many civilians have the skill to snipe? The DC Sniper was ex military.

And did something any deer hunter could duplicate. It was nothing terribly impressive. Beneath all the media hype it wasn't something difficult to do.

In an urban environment cover abounds. It wouldn't be hard to ambush a few soldiers and disappear, especially with a helpful population. And out side of it, a lot of hunters could do the same.

[MKSheppard]

And out side of it, a lot of hunters could do the same.

And better too. He was using a round that is ILLEGAL to hunt deer with in
most states due to lack of wounding capacity. IE, it doesn't kill the deer
fast enough to be humane.

A 30-06 JHP round would just be devastating

[Howedar]

Even if the US civilians were half as effective as the Iraqis, they'd do a very good job of trashing the morale of the troops, advanced or not.

[MKSheppard]

How many civilians have the skill to snipe?

My first time with a rifle, I was hitting the target at 100+ yards

[Stormbringer]

And out side of it, a lot of hunters could do the same.

And better too. He was using a round that is ILLEGAL to hunt deer with in
most states due to lack of wounding capacity. IE, it doesn't kill the deer
fast enough to be humane.

A 30-06 JHP round would just be devastating

Actually, that was refering to the abilty of civilians to snipe troops out side an urban/suburban environment.


I'm well aware that the "sniper" was a crappy shot. I know plenty of hunters that were contemptous of his ability to be frank.

[MKSheppard]

Actually, that was refering to the abilty of civilians to snipe troops out side an urban/suburban environment.

Even in an Urban environment, you're plenty fucked!



From US Army FM 7-8 INFANTRY RIFLE PLATOON & SQUAD,
which I read on the toilet

[Stormbringer]

From US Army FM 7-8 INFANTRY RIFLE PLATOON & SQUAD,
which I read on the toilet

That's really frightening.

[Nathan F]

From US Army FM 7-8 INFANTRY RIFLE PLATOON & SQUAD,
which I read on the toilet

That's really frightening.

Neh, no more than me reading Guns and Ammo or Shotgun News.

Or were you referring to the mental image of Shep on the toilet?

[MKSheppard]

Or were you referring to the mental image of Shep on the toilet?

REMEMBER! Maintain a firm asscheek weld to the toilet seat to prevent
gasses from your fecal discharge from fucking up your appetite for the
sandwich you're eating at the same moment!

[Howedar]

From US Army FM 7-8 INFANTRY RIFLE PLATOON & SQUAD,
which I read on the toilet

I want one.

A book, not a toilet. I already have a toilet, you sick fucks.

[Stravo]

Or were you referring to the mental image of Shep on the toilet?

REMEMBER! Maintain a firm asscheek weld to the toilet seat to prevent
gasses from your fecal discharge from fucking up your appetite for the
sandwich you're eating at the same moment!

Some of us have to sleep tonight you fuckers!!!