SW vs ST: Medical Technology

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-20 08:04am

Just curious.

Unlike other topics like firepower, FTL speed, or industrial capacity, I haven't seen much discussion or analysis on this particular subject matter.

Anyone?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-20 08:34am

I may be wrong, but I think this is a good chance to see a rational Trek-defending argument(s), at least when compared to other areas where Star Wars has obvious advantage like firepower and FTL speed.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-20 08:40am

Hmm I guess Trek wins this one. The SW medical technology seems to be over-reliant on bacta, and seeing that ST can regrow severed limbs, I'll go with them.
Of course, when talking about the coolness factor:
-you have Vader's mask
-you have the mechanical arm

IIRC someone brought this once up at the now closed BobBrown discussion boards:
what if the SW artificial limbs are superstrong?

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-20 12:18pm

Hmmm.....

I know we've seen ST regen technology able to regrow a spinal column and backbone (ie. when Worf was paralyzed), but I'm not so sure we've seen actual limb regeneration from ST medical technology.

Actually, now that I think about it, how did they end up fixing Nog's leg? Was it a cybernetic/bionic prosthesis, or was he stuck having to use the holodeck to have his leg back? Unless they were able to regen his leg, or perhaps find a suitable transplant, that would still put them behind SW medical tech, given the regular use of cybernetic prostheses.

However, I will definitely agree that too much of SW medtech relies on bacta for healing wounds and diseases. That critical flaw was spotlighted in the EU novels

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-09-20 12:20pm

Where did limb regenerating come from? Nog had a cyber leg

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-09-20 12:26pm

There are a few references in ST to cybernetic limbs as well. One was in a NG book, when a female colonist loses her hand and gets a replacement.

The best SW medical technology had to be found atop a certain Lobot in ESB. The guy can do some crazy shit with that noggin of his.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-20 12:41pm

Hm, well, ST actually takes this one for their advancement in medicine. After all, most disease was wiped out entirely by then.

But, I must say something in SW defense. Cybernetics is just cool. Wouldn't you like to have a blaster mounted to your arm? Or an eye that can see in many different spectrums?

You have to think that probably the SW galaxy has spent most of their time developing armed forces rather than medicine. There has been galactic war for too long.

In ST, the Federation is a huge group of peaceful planets. Of course they share their medical knowledge. They have nobody left to really fight, so they concentrate elsewhere.

What about nanites vs. bacta?

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2002-09-20 12:59pm

The big things in ST, IMO, is their ability to do "genetic egineering" on developed individuals. We can only do genetic egineering before development (otherwise its not expressed and only a fraction of the target cells take up the mutations). The Federation can apparently rewire brains at the age of six, change metabolic rates, and improve muscles after development. And to this the ability to clone *adults* and you realize that their abilities to tinker at the cellular level are nuts.

As far as cybernetics go. Both SW and ST have the ability to make them. Further we see that the feddies have the ability to create a noninvasive neural-computer interface (Barclay does it using the holodec and Bashir does it using "Romulan mind probes"). Not to mention other examples.

The fact that they have an inoculation against radiation is either brilliant medical tech or a writer's complete misunderstanding of the concept of radiation.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-20 01:35pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:Hm, well, ST actually takes this one for their advancement in medicine. After all, most disease was wiped out entirely by then.

But, I must say something in SW defense. Cybernetics is just cool. Wouldn't you like to have a blaster mounted to your arm? Or an eye that can see in many different spectrums?

If cybenetic replacements are so lifelike that they mimic even 100% feel to lost limbs, the advantages of organ regrowth aren't as absolute as some people think.

Also if you lost it in the first place, doesn't that usually mean that your job description makes losing limbs a common occurence? If my arm got sabered and I know I'm going to be fighting with sabers most of my life, maybe going the cyber way makes more sense.

Then you have improved stuff like extra strength, resistance to blasters, etc... Luke only covered his hand with a glove when the fake skin got blasted.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-20 01:40pm

Failed Glory wrote:There are a few references in ST to cybernetic limbs as well. One was in a NG book, when a female colonist loses her hand and gets a replacement.

A yes but by Paramount's rules that's inadmissable.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-09-20 01:43pm

tharkûn wrote:And to this the ability to clone *adults* and you realize that their abilities to tinker at the cellular level are nuts.

I know the clone troopers were only "growth accelerated" instead of being created as adults, but haven't adults been cloned in the EU?

Further we see that the feddies have the ability to create a noninvasive neural-computer interface (Barclay does it using the holodec and Bashir does it using "Romulan mind probes"). Not to mention other examples.

I'm going to have to object to the Barclay example, since he wasn't using Federation knowledge to build it, but instead he invented it with his IQ of 9999 or whatever (the computer had no idea how to build one).

Wasn't the mind-control-toy in that Pestly Cruncher episode thought-operated? I didn't see anyone plugging wires into the skull...

The fact that they have an inoculation against radiation is either brilliant medical tech or a writer's complete misunderstanding of the concept of radiation.

Since they think that there's a magical point where radiation levels kills everyone instantly but before that it's harmless, I'd have to go with bad writing.

Anyway, have there been specific examples in the SW universe where somebody was killed by radiation and med science was unable to do anything for that person? I haven't read a single EU novel...

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2002-09-20 01:48pm

Slartibartfast wrote:I know the clone troopers were only "growth accelerated" instead of being created as adults, but haven't adults been cloned in the EU?

Yup, you have Luuke and Jorrus C'Boath, both clones, in the Zahn trilogy. You also have the clone Emperor in the Dark Forces comic. I suppose these cloning tanks are advanced from the ones on Kamino.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the clone Thrawn in Vision of the Future.

Zahn must like clones. *heh*

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-20 01:54pm

Kira's one armed friend from the resistance said the Feds doctors could grow him a new one, and wasnt Nogs leg Bio-synthetic, implying that it had at least some Bio tech in it.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-09-20 02:13pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:Hmm I guess Trek wins this one. The SW medical technology seems to be over-reliant on bacta, and seeing that ST can regrow severed limbs, I'll go with them.
Of course, when talking about the coolness factor:
-you have Vader's mask
-you have the mechanical arm

IIRC someone brought this once up at the now closed BobBrown discussion boards:
what if the SW artificial limbs are superstrong?

You also have the mechanical arm from AOTC

Maybe it's just me but I thought that arm look very stupid, like they pulled it out of a cracker-jack box or better yet Battlestar Galactica.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-09-20 02:31pm

The strength of cybernetic arms is limited. I mean if you had one that ended at the shoulder joint and you picked up something really heavy, it would rip the arm right out of the socket because your organic body wouldn't be able to take the weight.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-20 03:23pm

Correct. For cybernetic strength to be good for anything beyond hand-crushing, you have to have reinforcement to the skeletal system, or completely replace the skeletal system as well.

Personally, that's why I prefer the "enhancements" from the 4th Imperium (David Weber's novels): the sci-fi power of bionics, without the clunky metal look or interface.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-24 03:29pm

Pg. 84-85: The cruel xenosurgeons had replaced the missings areas of Terpfen's brain with specially grown organic circuits that mimicked the size, shape, and composition of the removed tissue. The organic circuits were perfectly camouflaged and could resist the most penetrating medical scan, but they made him a helpless cyborg, a perfect spy and saboteur who could not think for himself when the Imperials wanted him to think their thoughts.

(ref: Dark Apprentice)

SW medical science can regrow neural pathways, also a very good indicator of their cybernetic capabilities which sofar stump anything I've seen in ST.

Pg. 192: Many large hospitals have prosthetics units to produce cybernetic replacement limbs and organs. Also, patients can supply genetic samples for use in growing replacement organs, eyes, muscles, and skin tissues in cloning tubes.

(ref: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology)

Cloning of "parts" is apparently possible in SW, have not seen this in use in ST.

Pg. 190: Medpac:
Medpacks include a synth-flesh dispenser, vibroscapel, flexclamp, painkillers, disinfectant pads, and gas and precious fluid cartridges.

Medical droid:
A robot or automation whose main functions are to diagnose and treat illnesses and injury, it can also perform or assist with surgeries when necessary.

(ref: Star Wars Encyclopedia)

Pg. 85: So they closed his brain, removing those parts he would no longer need. They'd sewn the punctures closed in his torso, inserting new neural nets in the arms and legs. They grew new skin to cover what he'd lost on his face. They gave him new eyes to see with, new ears to hear.

(ref: Tales of the Bounty Hunters)

Pg. 190: MEDPAC:
Standard medicines include coagulants to stop bleeding, healing salves and sterilizers to treat burns, and antiseptic irrigation bulbs and disinfectant pads that cleanse wounds and prevent infections. Small bacta patches can be applied to promote the healing of traumatized tissues.

General-use antibiotics, countertoxins, and immunity boosters can be used to treat patients subjected to poisons, animal venoms, diseases, and infectious microbes, thus stabilizing a patient until he or she arrives at a health facility where more potent countertoxins can be administered.

All medicines can be applied through patches or painlessly injected with a spray hypo. The GLiS also has a bone stabilizer and several spray splints that immobilize and protect bones; when the patient arrives at a hospital, bone fusers can repair the damage completely.

The FastFlesh medpac also includes a canister of chromostring, which offers deeper penetration of healing agents without causing nerve damage. This medpac has several instruments for emergency field surgery, including a sonic scalpel, a laser cauterizer, and a nerve and tissue regenerators.

(ref: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology)

Pg. 33: The Gammorean nodded. "They also engineer animals to adapt to different planetary environments. They have less wholesome experiments as well. I was one of them. For purposes of espionage, the Emperor wanted Gammoreans with humanlike methods of self-control. They made alterations to our biochemistries. My attention span surpasses human norm. My mathematical acumen registers at the genius level. I do not lose control of my anger."

(ref: Wraith Squadron)

So SW is not entierly dependant on Bacta.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-24 07:58pm

I think that SW technology is much better for healing/modifying neural pathways, but that Trek technology appears better at dealing with flesh wounds and damage to bone tissue.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-25 02:02am

There are bacta patches and injections and bone-knitters though, which does those jobs just as fine.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-09-25 02:43am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:You also have the mechanical arm from AOTC. Maybe it's just me but I thought that arm look very stupid, like they pulled it out of a cracker-jack box or better yet Battlestar Galactica.

It might have been a battlefield replacement prothesis —standardised design, adjustable for the patient and something which can be quickly grafted on under combat conditions or as a temporary until a better cybernetic or cloned replacement organ can be obtained.

Of course, if the arm had adjustable vibrosettings for the fingers... Well, that would be a pleasant surprise for Amidala on the wedding night.

Failed Glory · Post by **Failed Glory** » 2002-09-26 01:53pm

Are we leaving out Romulan, Section 31, and Cardassian medical technology?

It seems a little more macabre and definitely less ethical, but more effective offensively and more espionage-orientated than basic Federation med-tech.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2002-09-26 03:00pm

When Picard was assimilated didn't the Borg replace his arm? So when he was dis-assimilated didn't Starfleet replace it with a prosthetic. And that one looked and acted exactly like the old one. It seems that ST has a least decent prosthetics. Also, in the ep. in TNG when Worf is paralyzed, didn't the doctors grow a backbone for him? So I guess they can clone body parts. Or maybe replicate them.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-26 03:04pm

neoolong wrote:When Picard was assimilated didn't the Borg replace his arm? So when he was dis-assimilated didn't Starfleet replace it with a prosthetic. And that one looked and acted exactly like the old one. It seems that ST has a least decent prosthetics.

I don't believe they(the borg) did anything like that to him.

Also, in the ep. in TNG when Worf is paralyzed, didn't the doctors grow a backbone for him? So I guess they can clone body parts. Or maybe replicate them.

that was an experimental process that nearly killed him though.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-26 03:17pm

KIRA
Furel... if you don't mind my
asking... why haven't you--

FUREL
Why haven't I had my arm replaced?
Well... I thought about it. Even
saw a Federation doctor about it...
she said, "No problem, Furel. You
can have a new arm in less than a
week... you'll have full range of
motion and it'll feel just like your
own."

Its obviously not a very complex procedure, also what was Nog leg? cloned, half tech half bio or some sort of robotic leg.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-09-26 03:37pm

Both seem to have very advanced medical technology but in this case Trek seem to have the edge. Of course in the Empire the basic soldier seems to disposable.

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SW vs ST: Medical Technology

SW vs ST: Medical Technology

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