Johnny Depp badmouths America in Germany

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-09-05 10:06am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:Is it just me, or do Americans make European disagreement with US foreign policy out to be much more than it actually is??? I often hear Americans accuse Europeans of hating America and its inhabitants because they dislike its governments - something rather unique, since the only other democracy which replies to criticism of policies in a different way is Israel.

To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.

Sorry for my ranting.

Some Americans do. We have a faction that believes that any criticism of the right equals denigration of America as a whole.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-05 10:59am

Johnny Depp has now said that his quotes were taken out of context....christ do Anti-Americans have any balls anymore??

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 11:12am

Stravo wrote:Johnny Depp has now said that his quotes were taken out of context....christ do Anti-Americans have any balls anymore??

Yeah he has balls. It was his balls Hollywood was squeezing to get him to "clarify".

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 11:28am

To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.

In Britain, this is probably true. Not so in France and Belgium, and to a lesser extent Germany.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 11:39am

Durran Korr wrote:
To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.
In Britain, this is probably true. Not so in France and Belgium, and to a lesser extent Germany.

Don't be a moron. We don't hate your country, we hate your government.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-05 12:28pm

That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.

But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 12:56pm

Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.

But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.

Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 01:01pm

BoredShirtless wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.

But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.

That was my point.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 01:05pm

Durran Korr wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.

But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.
That was my point.

What, to use blanket statements?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 01:09pm

BoredShirtless wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote: Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.
That was my point.
What, to use blanket statements?

No, that there are many people in Europe who genuinely hate America.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 01:09pm

Argh, overquoting. Sorry.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-09-05 01:13pm

Didn't a majority of French people polled want to see the US lose the war to Iraq? How much are we supposed to like them after that?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-05 01:21pm

Stormbringer wrote: It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference.

What do you mean by "our attitude"?

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-09-05 01:24pm

Hey Shep, what was the point of that article?

TheFeniX · Post by **TheFeniX** » 2003-09-05 01:41pm

Darth Wong wrote:Canadians bitch about Canada's problems all the time (have you ever seen the "My Canada includes every whining special interest group in existence" T-shirts, with a picture of Canada's provinces being held together with band-aids?) and lambast our own prime minister (Jean Chretien, or as we affectionately refer to him, Jean Cretin) on a regular basis, and we don't get screamed at by our countrymen when we do it. Why do you have to be so sensitive about stuff like this? What's the big deal?

Most Canadians aren't celebrities how actually hold sway with the public (even though they shouldn't). If you disagree with the majority prepare to take heat for it. If I alone wear a shirt that says "America is stupid," no one is really going to care, because I'm just some nobody. I might get hassled by a few people, but I doubt anyone would do anything.

Now, if I was Arnold and wore an "America is Stupid" shirt, I'm going to get bashed by the entire country. Celebrities are idolized by many people. Regular people want to see celebrities as extentions of themselves. What happens when someone you idolize becomes less than perfect in your eyes? It makes you angrier than if you saw some homeless guy on the street preaching about how 9/11 was a good thing. Take this akin to a politician who preaches "Rape is ok if the girl was asking for it." You could say they aren't related, but I find "America is stupid" almost as offensive. That politician is going to loose whatever race he's going for.

If you are in the spot-light and speak out against the majority, expect to see major blow-back from it: that's life.

As for me personally, I don't even care anymore. I fully expect every Democrat to accuse every other Republican of some form of massive conspiracy (and vice-versa). Maybe one day people will wake up and realize that America is a two-party system, and that being a republican doesn't make you a fundie warmongerer, and that being a Democrat doesn't make you a tree-hugging pot-head peace-nik.

"Republican comes in the dictionary just after reptile and just above repugnant... I looked up Democrat. It's of the people, by the people, for the people."

--Julia Roberts

Unfortunately, some dumb bitches will never realize this. Ms. Roberts: please take a page from Steel Magnolias and die. Thanks.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 01:42pm

Durran Korr wrote: No, that there are many people in Europe who genuinely hate America.

Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.

Europe shares many cultural junctions with the US. To hate the US, is really to hate ourselves.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-05 01:56pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference.
What do you mean by "our attitude"?

Nothing. I've heard that cited (it's usually a country bumpkin/John Wayne caricture) as something people hate.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-05 02:07pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.

For some that is the case. But it seems over here that a fair sized minority do just plain hate the US. It's not the majority of Europeans but they're vocal and we hear a lot from them on this side of the Atlantic.

BoredShirtless wrote:Europe shares many cultural junctions with the US. To hate the US, is really to hate ourselves.

Similar but not identical. And sometimes they really can be rather pronouced.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 02:15pm

Stormbringer wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.
For some that is the case. But it seems over here that a fair sized minority do just plain hate the US. It's not the majority of Europeans but they're vocal and we hear a lot from them on this side of the Atlantic.

Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.

The protests in Europe were directed at US foreign policy towards Iraq. And who sets your countries foreign policies? Your government. You'd have to have a pretty big chip on your sholder if you think that means we hate your country.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 02:17pm

Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.

Read Simon's original post. The one I replied to.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 02:18pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.
Read Simon's original post. The one I replied to.

Yeah? And?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-05 02:21pm

To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.

Many > Majority.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-05 02:24pm

It seems to be a phenomenon almost unique to the US. You criticize the government and people take it very seriously and personally, almost as if we cannot seperate the two. I cannot explain this. This happens all the time in debates about US policy here, inevitably, people start taking it personally.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-05 02:30pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.

I didn't say they were the majority. Durran might beleive that or not. But I don't.

BoredShirtless wrote:The protests in Europe were directed at US foreign policy towards Iraq. And who sets your countries foreign policies? Your government. You'd have to have a pretty big chip on your sholder if you think that means we hate your country.

I can tell the difference between anger at our foriegn policy and hatred for our country.

Of course I'm not sure what to make of people rooting to see American troops killed in Iraq and saying the US government is responsible for September 11th.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-05 02:38pm

Stormbringer wrote: Of course I'm not sure what to make of people rooting to see American troops killed in Iraq and saying the US government is responsible for September 11th.

People can say the dumbest things when they're in a huff. But that's not to say there aren't genuine lunatics wishing horrible stuff.