Some Americans do. We have a faction that believes that any criticism of the right equals denigration of America as a whole.Simon H.Johansen wrote:Is it just me, or do Americans make European disagreement with US foreign policy out to be much more than it actually is??? I often hear Americans accuse Europeans of hating America and its inhabitants because they dislike its governments - something rather unique, since the only other democracy which replies to criticism of policies in a different way is Israel.
To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.
Sorry for my ranting.
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In Britain, this is probably true. Not so in France and Belgium, and to a lesser extent Germany.To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.
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Don't be a moron. We don't hate your country, we hate your government.Durran Korr wrote:In Britain, this is probably true. Not so in France and Belgium, and to a lesser extent Germany.To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.
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That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.
But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
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Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.
But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
That was my point.BoredShirtless wrote:Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.
But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
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What, to use blanket statements?Durran Korr wrote:That was my point.BoredShirtless wrote:Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.Stormbringer wrote:That's true for some people. And I'm not saying whether this is you or not.
But for some the distinction between government and Americans becomes so small as to make a split hair look like nothing. It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference. There comes a point at which the distinction becomes so miniscule that concluding with "but I don't hate Americans" looks foolish.
No, that there are many people in Europe who genuinely hate America.BoredShirtless wrote:What, to use blanket statements?Durran Korr wrote:That was my point.BoredShirtless wrote: Yeah I was responding to Durrans blanket statement with one of my own. Sure there are people who hate more then just your government. Agreed, if you hate enough things about a country, you basically hate the country.
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Didn't a majority of French people polled want to see the US lose the war to Iraq? How much are we supposed to like them after that?
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What do you mean by "our attitude"?Stormbringer wrote: It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference.
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Hey Shep, what was the point of that article?
If Religion and Politics were characters on a soap opera, Religion would be the one that goes insane with jealousy over Politics' intimate relationship with Reality, and secretly murder Politics in the night, skin the corpse, and run around its apartment wearing the skin like a cape shouting "My votes now! All votes for me! Wheeee!" -- Lagmonster
Most Canadians aren't celebrities how actually hold sway with the public (even though they shouldn't). If you disagree with the majority prepare to take heat for it. If I alone wear a shirt that says "America is stupid," no one is really going to care, because I'm just some nobody. I might get hassled by a few people, but I doubt anyone would do anything.Darth Wong wrote:Canadians bitch about Canada's problems all the time (have you ever seen the "My Canada includes every whining special interest group in existence" T-shirts, with a picture of Canada's provinces being held together with band-aids?) and lambast our own prime minister (Jean Chretien, or as we affectionately refer to him, Jean Cretin) on a regular basis, and we don't get screamed at by our countrymen when we do it. Why do you have to be so sensitive about stuff like this? What's the big deal?
Now, if I was Arnold and wore an "America is Stupid" shirt, I'm going to get bashed by the entire country. Celebrities are idolized by many people. Regular people want to see celebrities as extentions of themselves. What happens when someone you idolize becomes less than perfect in your eyes? It makes you angrier than if you saw some homeless guy on the street preaching about how 9/11 was a good thing. Take this akin to a politician who preaches "Rape is ok if the girl was asking for it." You could say they aren't related, but I find "America is stupid" almost as offensive. That politician is going to loose whatever race he's going for.
If you are in the spot-light and speak out against the majority, expect to see major blow-back from it: that's life.
As for me personally, I don't even care anymore. I fully expect every Democrat to accuse every other Republican of some form of massive conspiracy (and vice-versa). Maybe one day people will wake up and realize that America is a two-party system, and that being a republican doesn't make you a fundie warmongerer, and that being a Democrat doesn't make you a tree-hugging pot-head peace-nik.
Unfortunately, some dumb bitches will never realize this. Ms. Roberts: please take a page from Steel Magnolias and die. Thanks."Republican comes in the dictionary just after reptile and just above repugnant... I looked up Democrat. It's of the people, by the people, for the people."
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Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.Durran Korr wrote: No, that there are many people in Europe who genuinely hate America.
Europe shares many cultural junctions with the US. To hate the US, is really to hate ourselves.
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Nothing. I've heard that cited (it's usually a country bumpkin/John Wayne caricture) as something people hate.Simon H.Johansen wrote:What do you mean by "our attitude"?Stormbringer wrote: It's the people that have a huge laundry list of things they hate (the government, our attitude, those that support this or that, etc, etc, etc) that to reasonable people there is no difference.
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For some that is the case. But it seems over here that a fair sized minority do just plain hate the US. It's not the majority of Europeans but they're vocal and we hear a lot from them on this side of the Atlantic.BoredShirtless wrote:Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.
Similar but not identical. And sometimes they really can be rather pronouced.BoredShirtless wrote:Europe shares many cultural junctions with the US. To hate the US, is really to hate ourselves.
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Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.Stormbringer wrote:For some that is the case. But it seems over here that a fair sized minority do just plain hate the US. It's not the majority of Europeans but they're vocal and we hear a lot from them on this side of the Atlantic.BoredShirtless wrote:Your government. Many genuinely hate your government. Most people in Europe really think Bush and his Administration are idiots and cowboys. That's it. That's as far as the critisism goes.
The protests in Europe were directed at US foreign policy towards Iraq. And who sets your countries foreign policies? Your government. You'd have to have a pretty big chip on your sholder if you think that means we hate your country.
Read Simon's original post. The one I replied to.Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.
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Many > Majority.To me, it definately seems like many Europeans who deride Bush don't hate his home country per se - they just want to see somebody else in power.
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It seems to be a phenomenon almost unique to the US. You criticize the government and people take it very seriously and personally, almost as if we cannot seperate the two. I cannot explain this. This happens all the time in debates about US policy here, inevitably, people start taking it personally.
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I didn't say they were the majority. Durran might beleive that or not. But I don't.BoredShirtless wrote:Right, some people hate your country. But it isn't the majority as Durran tried to imply.
I can tell the difference between anger at our foriegn policy and hatred for our country.BoredShirtless wrote:The protests in Europe were directed at US foreign policy towards Iraq. And who sets your countries foreign policies? Your government. You'd have to have a pretty big chip on your sholder if you think that means we hate your country.
Of course I'm not sure what to make of people rooting to see American troops killed in Iraq and saying the US government is responsible for September 11th.
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People can say the dumbest things when they're in a huff. But that's not to say there aren't genuine lunatics wishing horrible stuff.Stormbringer wrote: Of course I'm not sure what to make of people rooting to see American troops killed in Iraq and saying the US government is responsible for September 11th.