Do the democrats have a chance in 2004?

[SirNitram]

Here we go again, Dean is 'unelectable' and 'too far left', and with the exception of the fact he mentioned the assault weapons ban, no one can actually back that up.. But whatever, the same yelling will only occour again.

In a normal election, I think, it'd be too early to tell. The Dems have a habit of picking someone out of hte nation eye, from my looks into history, and that makes any predictions hard. In essense, this thread is basically 'Will Bush suck so much it doesn't matter who runs?'. What's scary is, he might..

what i'm saying is that the Dems have a far better candidate in Kerry. He has much broader appeal. He is someone who disgruntled conservatives (do i have to spell it out for you?) and moderate independants would be more likely to vote for.

This is so. Then again, America leans heavily to the right, so Kerry is obviously seen as centrist. I won't deny Kerry has alot of appeal to people, I'm just a little sick of that same mantra.

[Knife]

But its true.

Anyway, all the Dems are running hard left right now to get the nomination. What will be interesting will be after the DNC nomination and see how far to the center they all run.

In general, I think that it is up to Bush weather he wins or loses. He has the ability to fuck it up, but he can also stick his chin out and take a few lumps, which I think would bolster his popularity, and get reelected.

Personally, if a better canidate was available, I'd probably vote for him/her. And on that note, there are a few wildcards as of yet. Both satan er... I mean Hillary might jump in if the frontrunner is Dean. And General Clark has flirted with the idea. If Clark gets in, if could deflate the Kerry support some.

Anyway, the Dems are fractured right now and it will be interesting on how shit works out and what direction the party takes.

[Peregrin Toker]

If the USA's planned global mind control network is activated while G.W. Bush is in power, the Democrats don't have anything which looks like a chance.... and even if this mind control network turns out to be another conspiracy theory (which it probably is), I think the sheer amount of funding the Republicans have available for their campaign will make it very, very hard for the Democrats.

[Stormbringer]

Here we go again, Dean is 'unelectable' and 'too far left', and with the exception of the fact he mentioned the assault weapons ban, no one can actually back that up.. But whatever, the same yelling will only occour again.

He's not unelectable. But his politics are well to the left and it's not likely he'll moderate much. Between that and his record on taxes in Vermont that'll hurt him. He's got a stong following of dedicated liberals. That might be enough to secure the nomination but it's not the party faithful that swing elections, it's popular appeal and Dean's stances are not going to have the same appeal to them.

[Glocksman]

I'm considered far right on some issues and surprisingly left on others, but between Dean and Kerry, I'd vote for Dean.

Though that is like being given the choice between being shot and being drawn and quartered.

At least being shot would be quicker and less painful.

[Upshot Knothole]

Without Klintoon to hoodwink the voters, the Democrats will revert to the morally bankrupt, fratricidal, and out-of-touch party they always have been. Eight years of liberal tomfoolery was enough for America.

[Stravo]

Keep in mind the word is spreading that the Dmeocratic leadership will do almost anything to derail Dean's candidacy at the moment. They pushed Kerry forward and are throwing their support behind anyone BUT Dean and I find that insulting and disgusting. This reminds me of Bush v. McCain. The Republican party leadership all but crowned Bush when he announced, then when he lost the primary to McCain the nasty attacks began from the leadership, insinutaing that McCain was a traitor to the party, etc. They started erecting barriers to McCain's candidacy.

It makes you wonder, is there a true democracy goiong on here or an oligarchy of party elite that elect whom they want for their party and then let the people vote.

Is it a democracy when the party system is telling us who we can vote for?

I say Go Dean and piss in the faces of all those democratic elites.

[CelesKnight]

So do the Democrats have a chance?

It's not a sure thing for either side yet. I would say that the election is Bush's to win or lose. All the Democratic candiate can do is be there to, ready to take over if Bush messes up. If Bush doesn't mess up, there is nothing that the Dems can do to win.

I don't think that Dean's message will play well outside of the moderate to far left. He only has a chance if Bush really, really mess up in the next year, and people become very alienated from neocon forign policies and conservative economics. Liebermann is more dangerous. He will get a lot of liberals by default, and could easily take moderates and non-neocon conseratives if Bush messes up the War on Terror. I don't really know much about the rest, but they will all have to expouse overly liberal policies to beat Dean.... policies that won't play well with moderates.

Of course, this is only my impression, not facts.

[Joe]

Actually, neoconservatives would probably go for Lieberman, as well (he's always been popular with neocons, and still is in some circles).

[CelesKnight]

I personally am expecting a repeat of the Dukakis or even the Mondale campaigns, regardless of which one of them takes the nomination.

As a conservative, I wish. The difference is that then people remembered the bad old days (economically speaking) and credited Reagan/Bush with fixing them. Now people remember the good old days of the 90's, and while they may not directly credit Clinton with them, he was none the less important.

The real question is the war on terror. Recent reports from Iraq and Afgan. suggest that it's going badly, and worse the US isn't doing anything enough to correct it. Bush enjoys great support from the "Jacksonian" aspect of America (a huge, largly rural group that glady supports strong, decisive military actions in what the conside defense of America.) If we "lose" Iraq and Afganistan, or if Iran or NK cause trouble, and it turned out that Bush was weak or indecisive, he could lose big time to a relativly moderate Democrate. And perhaps have a narrow loss to someone like Dean.

[CelesKnight]

I think the sheer amount of funding the Republicans have available for their campaign will make it very, very hard for the Democrats.

I should read threads through before responding. I seem to have covered what everyone else already said. At the risk of doing that again, I agree, think that we should take the financial aspect in mind. I don't recall the exact figures, but I think that the Repubs are collecting like 4 times the Dems cash. And the Dems have more debt than the Repubs. In previous elections, the parties were far closer money wise.

[Joe]

I think the sheer amount of funding the Republicans have available for their campaign will make it very, very hard for the Democrats.

I should read threads through before responding. I seem to have covered what everyone else already said. At the risk of doing that again, I agree, think that we should take the financial aspect in mind. I don't recall the exact figures, but I think that the Repubs are collecting like 4 times the Dems cash. And the Dems have more debt than the Repubs. In previous elections, the parties were far closer money wise.

The Dems will probably get more matching funds this round, but it's pretty obvious at this point that the Republicans will be spending the majority of the cash this election cycle.

[Raptor 597]

Lets get Weshley Clark running aganist Georgie Boy. Watch as Clark take it with a landslide.

[CaptainChewbacca]

John Kerry can't win for one reason; He's a fancy-pants. He looks like a eurocrat, won't look at a corndog, and went to an Ivy-League school.

Just existing he alienates about half of America.

Its Dean or Bush, and my money's on Bush.

[Worlds Spanner]

While Dean may in fact be a real left winger, could someone here give me some examples or an actual analysis of his policies that supports that?

It seems to me that EVERYONE, from people here to the DLC to Republicans at my school are saying Dean is too liberal but I've never heard any of them say why.

[Worlds Spanner]

John Kerry can't win for one reason; He's a fancy-pants. He looks like a eurocrat, won't look at a corndog, and went to an Ivy-League school.

You mean like Yale?

[Joe]

While Dean may in fact be a real left winger, could someone here give me some examples or an actual analysis of his policies that supports that?

It seems to me that EVERYONE, from people here to the DLC to Republicans at my school are saying Dean is too liberal but I've never heard any of them say why.

National health care, gay marriage, opposition to the Iraq war, liberal foreign policy (i.e. humanitarian missions), pro-UN, wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts, etc...

[Alyrium Denryle]

While Dean may in fact be a real left winger, could someone here give me some examples or an actual analysis of his policies that supports that?

It seems to me that EVERYONE, from people here to the DLC to Republicans at my school are saying Dean is too liberal but I've never heard any of them say why.

National health care, gay marriage, opposition to the Iraq war, liberal foreign policy (i.e. humanitarian missions), pro-UN, wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts, etc...

Well, we ARE the only industrialized nation without nationalized health care... 1/3 of americans have no coverage i may add...

Gay marriage... its about time.

So... we cant go over to help poor people out, but we can kill them, then rebuild their country(which I may add, costs a hell of a lot more)... bit of a double standard...

hmmm UN... But then again, I am in favor of a world government(rought about through diplomacy of course)

Tax cuts that primarily benifited the wealthy, and that we cant afford.... riiiiight.

Personally, I like both Kerry and Dean and would love seeing either in office.

[Joe]

1/3 of americans have no coverage i may add...

~42 million / ~280 million does not equal one third.

Gay marriage... its about time.

It is, and Dick Cheney actually endorsed this in 2000 during his debate (not surprisingly, nobody cared).

hmmm UN... But then again, I am in favor of a world government(rought about through diplomacy of course)

Most Americans aren't, thank Jove.

Tax cuts that primarily benifited the wealthy, and that we cant afford.... riiiiight.

So we can afford national health care, but we can't afford a tiny little tax cut?

Tax cuts that benefited everyone and stimulated the economy, by the way (the dividend tax elimination in particular has been effective).

[Howedar]

So THATS why the economy is in the toilet! Because its been "stimulated!"

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Durran Korr.

[Joe]

So THATS why the economy is in the toilet! Because its been "stimulated!"

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Durran Korr.

November of last year the Dow Jones dipped below 7500. Now it's above 9500. Unemployment is only at 6.1 percent, which is quite frankly an astounding figure for a recession. Say what you will, but that's improvement.

[RedImperator]

So THATS why the economy is in the toilet! Because its been "stimulated!"

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Durran Korr.

So if we don't immediately leap out of recession into a full-blown boom, the economy hasn't been stimulated? All the data over the last year says the economy is growing. It's only intertia that's keeping the average person from feeling the rebound at this point (and unemployment under 7% in a recession is unheard of to begin with).

[Gil Hamilton]

John Kerry can't win for one reason; He's a fancy-pants. He looks like a eurocrat, won't look at a corndog, and went to an Ivy-League school.

Just existing he alienates about half of America.

Its Dean or Bush, and my money's on Bush.

Bush is just as Ivy covered as Kerry, and that's easy enough for Kerry to counter. Kerry just needs to remind people of his military career. After all, Kerry was fighting in Vietnam while Bush was bravely defending bars in Alabama from the communists.

[Gil Hamilton]

November of last year the Dow Jones dipped below 7500. Now it's above 9500. Unemployment is only at 6.1 percent, which is quite frankly an astounding figure for a recession. Say what you will, but that's improvement.

And when I was in my junior year in high school, people were worrying about a Dow 10k problem because some computers at the stock exchange couldn't go over four digits and the Dow Jones Industrial was about to break 10,000 (it eventually peaked early the next year at a shade under 12k, IIRC). This combined with an unemployment of 4.1%. Do you want to me to bring the dip for the party to celebrate the Dow Jones being at around 9.5 with an unemployment rate being at "only" 6.1% or should I?

[Joe]

November of last year the Dow Jones dipped below 7500. Now it's above 9500. Unemployment is only at 6.1 percent, which is quite frankly an astounding figure for a recession. Say what you will, but that's improvement.

And when I was in my junior year in high school, people were worrying about a Dow 10k problem because some computers at the stock exchange couldn't go over four digits and the Dow Jones Industrial was about to break 10,000 (it eventually peaked early the next year at a shade under 12k, IIRC). This combined with an unemployment of 4.1%. Do you want to me to bring the dip for the party to celebrate the Dow Jones being at around 9.5 with an unemployment rate being at "only" 6.1% or should I?

What's your point, other than to be a smartass?