Trek is dead! Long live Trek!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-26 09:20pm

pellaeons_scion wrote:So essentially warfare can be broken down into who has the biggest guns, and the most ships, troops etc.

I can understand that to a point, as its war by attritition. Im guessing your basically saying that in this kind of conflict tactics would not play as major a role as in real-world warfare. Maybe long term strategy has a better place.

The real problem for the Federation is that by the time they could implement tactics, they would already be screwed. They really have two strategic options:

1. Sacrifice most worlds, concentrating forces around a few of them. If they choose this, then the Empire quickly captures all of their border worlds and most of their other planets, and then moves in to finish off the remnants. They still don't have the firepower to really stop large groups of Imperial ships, so this would not be effective, even if their tactics were very good.

2. Spread your ships out and be crushed individually.

Neither option is very good. They would have no ability to implement tactics.

Let's illustrate it this way. If the Federation had some method of increasing their firepower on all of their ships by a hundred fold, and making it so that an ISD they were up against could only fire ONE of its MTL's against their ships, they would still need more than 20 or 30 ships (at an absolute minimum) to have a consistent chance of winning. The Federation has no such tactics, and even if it did it would have no ability to implement them on a large enough scale to defeat the Empire. It's just too powerful. It has more ISD's than the Federation has runabouts, and the Federation simply would not have the number of ships necessary to defeat their enemy, even using such a tactic. That is what the Federation is up against. They are orders of magnitude less powerful in every way than the Empire. And the speed advantage of the Empire would allow the Imperials to strike wherever the Federation was weak with nearly total impunity, and retreat if they were ever in any danger. There is no way that tactics could win this war.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2002-09-26 09:29pm

Speed, Power, Numbers= victory

I can definately understand that. Dont get me wrong, I am under no illusions that the UFP could do anything to stop an Imperial invasion. The core of the Imperial fleet, the ISD, is a damn tough vessel, one I think the UFP would have a hard time even inconvieniencing it let alone destroying one.

Personally I believe from a military standpoint the UFP would be stomped. They are completely unprepared for that kind of war on that scale

Long live the Empire!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-26 09:32pm

Incidentally, the planet that Thrawn captured using a cloaked ship to give the illusion of fireing through a planetary shield was the agricultural world of Ukio.

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2002-09-26 09:34pm

Ukio!

Thanks for that! Been a while since I have read the books.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-26 09:36pm

pellaeons_scion wrote:Ukio!

Thanks for that! Been a while since I have read the books.

NP.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-26 09:42pm

Technology is important, but its next to useless without trained personell. I think thats where the empire has the edge over ST

The rest sniped

Thats true TO A POINT

However.. Two figures for you...

The E-D assuming infintie Quantum torps(128 Megatons each)
27,596,250,000/128=215,595,703 torps and at 4 every two seconds(Divide by 2 get 2 a second)

215,595,703=107,797,851seconds/60=1796630 minutes/60=29942 hours/24=1247 days/7=178 weeks/52=3.47 YEARS for the E-D by itself to take down one section of an ISD's shields

100 Defanits pumping out 8 per second Q-Torps agian or 4,000 Torps every second

215,595,703/4000=53,898 seconds/60=898minutes/60=14.97 Hours of Direct Hammering to take down a section of ISD shields by 100 Defanits

Mid range power figures, tradtionaly we use low end to make it any vauge sense of hopefulnes but when even LOW END figures paint ISD shielding at 30Tera-tons it gets hard.
So basicly I said screw it and let the ISD have the power it acutal has

And this is what I got.....
Check the Sticky Thread SW Middle Firepower Figures or whatever in SW VS ST for more

Infact, its somewhere but I calcuated a single ISD can withstand 10,000 Defiants for nearly a full minute...
Considering High end Figures for ST places the Fleet at 12,000
And they don't HAVE 10,000 or even 1,000 Defiants

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2002-09-26 10:53pm

*dies laffing!*

LOL!! Under that kind of assault the only thing the Imps would have to fear is death by boredom!

Post by **Gandalf** » 2002-09-27 04:27am

The Darkling said

I was going with a maxium I know all ships dont carry Q torps, however you are under estimating the Federation fleet somewhat - the Klingons could deploy 1500 ships inside a day and Starfleet combined portions of two fleets to make 600 so you are off on you figures there.

I wasn't entirely off, in A Time To Stand, the Seventh Fleet numbered 112. I guessed this meant all the fleets are of different size.
For more specific numbers, in Sacrifice of Angels, the armada went with an element of the Seventh fleet (presumably rebuilt after the pounding they got at the start of the season, also the Ninth and Second Fleets couldn't make it). And even then they got half of 1254 ships. Suddenly the Fed fleet is looking better.[/quote]

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-27 07:40am

The *Fanmade Akula ST shield designed by me and improved opon by others is the Fedds best chance for defeating the Imps, but unless I was suddenly ported to the 24 Centuray with Godlike powers

I don't think they would listen