EU Books I hate

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-09-08 07:33am

I hate to say this, but virtually any book in the series save for NJO, that had been written by authors involved in the ST franchise, has my wholesome vote of disapproval on it.

Ann did a somewhat good job tying together the loose ends of Han growing up years, but to me, what she did was to merely perpetuate an EU stereotype, fostered onto her and the SWU by KJA. Of course, what really pisses me off is that although she did thanks Curtis Saxton and Bob Brown for their on the MF and Imps, she really didn't incoporate their work into her novelisation and focused on KJA type style of character development.

And the thing that earned her eternal damnation? She thanked KJA, and acknowledged him as the Chancellor of Star Wars

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-08 10:50am

Lord Poe wrote:I agree with many of your choices, Rob. I wish I could like the Rogue Squadron books, but the way the Imperials are portrayed as complete idiots, while Wedge and the A-Team get away with intricate yet simple plans made me want to hurt people.

I haven't read any Stackpole books, but from what I know it seems like Stackpole's trying to write pulp-style military fiction in a Star Wars setting. Is this an accurate description?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-08 11:02am

The New Rebellion is terrible.

I liked TCoPL, but I absolutely despised the BFC. It sucked. It was boring, nothing happened, the characters were off, and even though there was no threat to the Galaxy, the McDowell kept trying to create tension and suspense but never actually delivered the goods. Rogue Planet was boring and trite, and I, Jedi was exceptionally poor.

All these books, however, pale in comparison to the shit that was The Approaching Storm. That was easily the worst EU book in the history of Star Wars, with its horrendous characterization, ultra-craptacular plot line, shitty philosophy that directly contradicts the rest of the series (including the movies), and God-awful writing style.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-08 01:00pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
YT300000 wrote:I highly enjoyed Shadow Hunter.
The comic was cool, even if a tad ridiculous "Hey Maul, could you just swing by BLACK SUN--the most powerful criminal orginization in the galaxy, second only to the Empire itself--and kill everybody? Yeah, thanks."

I believe the intention was to show that not even the most ruthless criminals could possibly stand before a Sith Lord, and it did so quite well. Maul tore his way through Black Sun's bodyguards and even killed a natural psychic along the way. It also shows that a Sith would beat the snot out of a Dathomarian. Hehe.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-08 04:56pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I, Jedi was exceptionally poor.

Really? I found it terrific, and an excellent bandage to the shit that was the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

All these books, however, pale in comparison to the shit that was The Approaching Storm. That was easily the worst EU book in the history of Star Wars, with its horrendous characterization, ultra-craptacular plot line, shitty philosophy that directly contradicts the rest of the series (including the movies), and God-awful writing style.

Goddamn, I almost forgot that one. The biggest damned borefest ever written.

I stopped reading the NJO after Remnant. I just couldn't take it anymore. I haven't picked up "Shatterpoint" either. NJO BLOWS, because of the deliberate lock down of Jedi powers, to the idiotic Vong could last in a fight with a Jedi, even though there's no reason they should. Its so mind numbingly idiotic, all of it.

One fucking Force storm could wipe the galaxy of Vong. This NJO is so selfish that one of them isn't allowed to sacrifice themself and fall to the Dark Side to deal with the Vong in "one swift stroke". Luke fucking did it once and came back. Why not again if he's such a "master"?

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-09-08 10:10pm

What about the Centerpoint trilogy? They're one of hte few SW books that I don't own, and I found them quite enjoyable. And Traitor is one of my favorite SW books.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-09 01:59am

StormTrooperTR889 wrote:What about the Centerpoint trilogy? They're one of hte few SW books that I don't own, and I found them quite enjoyable. And Traitor is one of my favorite SW books.

Are you talking about the Corellian trilogy? I've never read that. That's the one with Centerpoint Station, right?

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-09-09 02:05am

Yes, the Corellian Trilogy.

And at least it had a legitimate threat, even if the NR was only able to scrape up a basic taskforce in the area to investigate (the justification: a good chunk of the NR Navy was in drydock...)

It could have been better, but then again, it could have been a lot worse... especially if it had been KJA writing it.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-09-09 07:53am

Lord Poe wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:I, Jedi was exceptionally poor.
Really? I found it terrific, and an excellent bandage to the shit that was the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

excellent bandage doesn't solve the problem of it still being rather bad, although I must consider that it does manage to tie together the bad elements of the JAT and make it representable.

I stopped reading the NJO after Remnant. I just couldn't take it anymore. I haven't picked up "Shatterpoint" either. NJO BLOWS, because of the deliberate lock down of Jedi powers, to the idiotic Vong could last in a fight with a Jedi, even though there's no reason they should. Its so mind numbingly idiotic, all of it.

One fucking Force storm could wipe the galaxy of Vong. This NJO is so selfish that one of them isn't allowed to sacrifice themself and fall to the Dark Side to deal with the Vong in "one swift stroke". Luke fucking did it once and came back. Why not again if he's such a "master"?

That's where I disagree with you.

Look at it this way, did you see this happen in the movies? Why couldn't Obi-wan defeat Vader? By simply giving in to the rage that was present in Eps I, he may have.After all, Kenobi didn't need to rely on life support machinery to stay alive. But instead, he chose to be the heroic scarifice instead.

While the Force denial powers is extremely screwy, its required in order for the "Sons of Suns" prophecy to be valid.

Frankly, what I really disliked about the NJO is the constant inflation of the New Republic talents, then a backstab in the heart by showing despite all their bravery, heroics, skill and brillance, someone on their side screwed it up badly and cause them to lose. I mean, a political system that can allow the brillant to arise, should equally keep the incompetents and nefarious out, or at least let them coexist and battle together. Instead, the "bad" guys rule. And then in the end, they suddenly become good again (Felya)and the good non-main characters are either killed off or become bad.

Last but not least, I hated what they did to the Jedi philosophy. When I first read traitor, i thought, OMG! Someone actually bothered to merge the Jedi philosophy, with its Taoist and Zen Buddhist leanings in the OT together with that shown in the new trilogy and EU. I was so delighted at first. Then after Destiny Way, they screwed it up by totally reversing the Jedi philosophy.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-09 08:53am

PainRack wrote:Last but not least, I hated what they did to the Jedi philosophy. When I first read traitor, i thought, OMG! Someone actually bothered to merge the Jedi philosophy, with its Taoist and Zen Buddhist leanings in the OT together with that shown in the new trilogy and EU. I was so delighted at first. Then after Destiny Way, they screwed it up by totally reversing the Jedi philosophy.

I'm not that much into the EU - so I'd like to know: How inconsistent is the information about the Jedi philosophy we have from all of the official literature?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-09-09 10:36am

Well, I haven't read any of the NJO books nor much of the prequel EU witht the exception of Shatterpoint and I've already given my opinions on that.

Any way, with the EU of the OT, the only one's I like were the X-wing seriers and to a way lesser degree, the Wraith Squadron seriers though the first was way better than the latter.

The Courtship of Princes Leia was pretty good but other than than there isn't much.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-09-09 02:34pm

Knife wrote: Any way, with the EU of the OT, the only one's I like were the X-wing seriers and to a way lesser degree, the Wraith Squadron seriers though the first was way better than the latter.

Funny, I thought that fans preferred Wraith Squadron over Rogue Squadron.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-09-09 02:47pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Knife wrote: Any way, with the EU of the OT, the only one's I like were the X-wing seriers and to a way lesser degree, the Wraith Squadron seriers though the first was way better than the latter.
Funny, I thought that fans preferred Wraith Squadron over Rogue Squadron.

Thats my opinion. Basiclly, i think anything by Zahn, Stackpole or Allston is worth reading but on re-reading Zahn and stackpole lose its suspense. Their not as good when u know what happens next. Other EU ive read are godam awful, Balance point was just depressing. The two books of JAT ive read were slow and unintresting, crystal star was impossible to get into. SotE was middling and Wany stories in the Tales from the empire/New Rebublic anthologies are great.

Are the Tales from the Empire/New Reb under the infinities label?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-09-09 03:03pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Knife wrote: Any way, with the EU of the OT, the only one's I like were the X-wing seriers and to a way lesser degree, the Wraith Squadron seriers though the first was way better than the latter.
Funny, I thought that fans preferred Wraith Squadron over Rogue Squadron.

For me the Rouge Squadron series was better. It had compelling characters and detailed the taking of Courscant that until that point was not known. Issard was an ok villian though I liked the Vurro and Kirtan duo better for the bad guys.

Wraith Squadron laked credibility for me primarily because of the basis for the story. Grante, Rouge Squadron had some 'speciliest' in it and did limited ground work, but Wraith Squadron was designed for it and it seemed cheesey.

If you want an infiltration group, make a story about Page and his troops. If you want a story of a fighter group, write such a story. I hate uber do it all type units. That and the description of the Corellian Corvette went against all that was known. So much so, that it has to be classified as a whole different ship type and class for it to work and the simiularities to the CC are supposed to be either couincidence or just family resemblence.

Solo's Command was better than Wraith Squadron but it did not save the series in my eyes.

P.S. I didn't put in the Thrawn trilogy in my first post and it needs to be mentioned that I like this series.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-09 03:38pm

I think that out of all the X-Wing books, Starfighters of Adumar was the best one.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-09-09 05:13pm

Hey, I liked Darksaber when I was ten.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-09 07:28pm

Wraith Squadron is better, overall, although neither series strikes me as being remotely noteworthy from a literary perspective.

The problem with the series is that the squadrons are made up of too many characters and not enough interaction between any two characters, with random characters seeming to wander into the story every few pages. To correct that, the story should have focused completely around a couple or four characters for the first book and then gradually expanded to reveal more about the rest of the squadron. That's largely why Starfighters of Adumar was their best book, despite its lackluster plot--it addressed the issue of having too many characters. Even though it did this in an incredibly contrived and non-sensical way, it was still an improvement over the other books.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-09-09 08:27pm

Regardless of whether people like these authors or not, Stackpole, Allston, and Zhan are the core authors behind the EU. I rather like all three myself. Zhan is the best, but I first read Stackpole and I of course enjoyed Allston.

Personaly I think Stackpole started out better then Allston, but Allston eventualy became the better writer. When it finaly came time for them to write their two NJO books appeice, Allston did an incredible job with his two books. Stackpole was lackluster with his two.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-09-10 01:49am

Its amazing when you go back and look at all the books to realize which ones REALLY sucked, which ones were readable and which ones were damn good. (not to mention the ones you forgot to read). That said I offer my official (in chronological order) rehash of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

The Legacy of the Jedi: Haven't read
Jedi Apprentice Series: Again haven't read
Cloak of Deception: See above, I've been negligent with my prequel-era reading
Darth Maul Series: Again haven't read (damn I need to catch up)
Episode I Novelisation: Could have been better, readable but might as well just take the movie unless you want every little quote.
Rouge Planet: See also the rest of the prequel stuff
Jedi Quest Series: See above (shit I'm way behind)
The Approaching Storm: Add it to my list damnit
Anakin:Apprentice: Shit (that's a note to self not a description of the book...yet)
Episode II Novelisation: Not bad, certainly a worhtwhile companion though i personally think the romance is even MORe twisted in the book.
Shatterpoint: One more for the list.

Han Solo Trilogy #2
The Paradise Snare
The Hutt Gambit
Rebel Dawn

I'm doing all three as one since I feel the writing throughout is perhaps so consistent as to merit attention as a unit. While not paticularly glaring in any respect these short novels are, nonetheless, a good read. They are quick and to the point (much like the excelletn Corellian Trilogy). They satisfy you with enough depth and enough new characters plus a good bit of reality here and there (Han Solo ain't the perfect guy and his heart can be broken).

The Lando Calrissian Trilogy
Lando Calrissian and The Mindharp Of Sharu
Lando Calrissian and The Flamewind Of Oseon
Lando Calrissian and The Starcave Of Thonboka

Again I'll put these all together for simplicity but they aren't simple. These novels (along with the follow-on Han Solo Trilogy) are some of the best writing. They are part of the "Classic" Star Wars writing era, the era in which the verbiage of the original novels were still powerful. These are deep novels which are authentic works of literature (a shocker compared to other SW novels). The characters feel REAL even if they are heroic. The adventures on the fringes of society provide a wonderful non-Jedi driven view of the SW Galaxy that isn't seen again until the Wraith Squadron series (and not even then are we total without).

Han Solo Trilogy #1
Han Solo at Star's End
Han Solo's Revenge
Han SOlo and The Lost Legacy

If Solo Trilogy #2 was good then these are great. Much like the Lando Calrissian trilogy (which is almost a perfect lead-in) these novels are one gigantic arc in the life of Han Solo just before Episode IV. If you haven't read them go out and do so now, I mean NOW. Once again there are real characters here living in a true multi-faceted world right on the edge of civilization. You don't even need to know they are in the SW galaxy to enjoy this novel and that (along with the LCT) is what makes it worth reading. I can't stress enough, go find these two trilogies now.

More to come but that's all I've got time for now.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-11 06:07am

Lord Poe wrote:but the way the Imperials are portrayed as complete idiots,

I agree to a certain extent. Giving away Coruscant was Isard's biggest blunder, even with the Krytos plan. It removed any credibility she had as leader of the Empire, and gave the Republic a huge boost once Krytos was dealt with. I still love the X-Wing series though ^_^

Worst for me was "The New Rebellion", other than the afformentioned " VSD's being a major threat to the Republic" issue, I just found it badly written. Plus the ease with which Wedge killed a VSD.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-09-11 05:18pm

If Isard's plan had worked, she would have ruled as Empress. But the Rouges forced her hand, so hte series could continue.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-11 05:29pm

StormTrooperTR889 wrote:If Isard's plan had worked, she would have ruled as Empress. But the Rouges forced her hand, so hte series could continue.

It might have, but she took a major risk. Coruscant was her key to power, as long as she had that, she maintained a lot of loyalty. Before its fall, we know she controlled considerable forces (including at least one SSD according to Rogue Squadron, other than Lusanskya). After its fall, she has 1 VSD, 2 ISD's, and an SSD. She obviously lost a lot of support after its fall.
Even if Krytos had worked, the Rebels would still have held the planet, they would still have had the defences to repel her fleet. She couldn't have retaken it. Krytos would have seriously crippled them, but they would still have the advantage in any battle for her to retake the planet.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-09-11 05:33pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
StormTrooperTR889 wrote:If Isard's plan had worked, she would have ruled as Empress. But the Rouges forced her hand, so hte series could continue.
It might have, but she took a major risk. Coruscant was her key to power, as long as she had that, she maintained a lot of loyalty. Before its fall, we know she controlled considerable forces (including at least one SSD according to Rogue Squadron, other than Lusanskya). After its fall, she has 1 VSD, 2 ISD's, and an SSD. She obviously lost a lot of support after its fall.
Even if Krytos had worked, the Rebels would still have held the planet, they would still have had the defences to repel her fleet. She couldn't have retaken it. Krytos would have seriously crippled them, but they would still have the advantage in any battle for her to retake the planet.

Yes asides from having no money they wouldn't be affected

Besides Isard's probs were two-fold:
i)She had to leave (or apperently leave) Imperial centre too early.
II) Krytos was to evective killing to fats so it didn't spreads as well as she wanted.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-11 05:40pm

Crazedwraith wrote: Yes asides from having no money they wouldn't be affected
Besides Isard's probs were two-fold:
i)She had to leave (or apperently leave) Imperial centre too early.
II) Krytos was to evective killing to fats so it didn't spreads as well as she wanted.

I said they would be crippled. Do you really think they would simply curl up and die though, after all they'd been though? They would still hold Coruscant, they would still have the strongest defences. Isard would still face a tough fight. Its more likely some warlord with superior forces would take the planet, leaving her with nothing.
Abandoning the planet was foolish. She could have launched Lusanskya, combined its firepower with the Golon stations, and her fleet, and given the rebels a pounding, they wouldn't have anticpated an SSD. A few Interdictors to hold them and she could have crippled them more than Krytos ever would. With their severly reduced fleet, she could have dealt with most of the remains.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-09-11 05:46pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote: Yes asides from having no money they wouldn't be affected
Besides Isard's probs were two-fold:
i)She had to leave (or apperently leave) Imperial centre too early.
II) Krytos was to evective killing to fats so it didn't spreads as well as she wanted.
I said they would be crippled. Do you really think they would simply curl up and die though, after all they'd been though? They would still hold Coruscant, they would still have the strongest defences. .

Defenses manned by who? People dont work for free, they work for money and cause they beleive in. When the New Rep was BANKRUPT and coudn't stop a GENOCIDAL disease from ravaging their population how long to you think its member states are going to hold together?