This is a rebuttal to Darkstar over his hyperdrive speeds obtained in AOTC, and a challenge to come defend his numbers. I will prefer this debate to occur over at Spacebatles.com cause I frequent there more often, although I am willing to accept any other challenge at SD.net or over email.
As Darkstar would like to say, this is a project in progress. Over time, additional comments will be added on.
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWaotcparsec.html
In the above webpage, he argues that through detailed analysis of the scenes, he is able to obtain a time value for the transit time Anakin took in AOTC. This time value is based on the following sequence.
Previously, I'd guesstimated this value based on the approximate time it would take for the events which occur between their take-off and their landing to happen, with the major one being what occurs in the Republic Senate in what seems to be a special night session . . . a vote on giving Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers, which occurs after a speech by Jar-Jar. The Jar-Jar speech alone could've taken decades, but I nevertheless guessed that everything took about six hours.
Why is this important? Because, moments before Amidala and Anakin departed Tatooine, they were in direct communication with Mace Windu in Palpatine's office. We get to see the sky outside the window, and it looks like this:
The Senate voting scene is preceded by this establishing shot of the Senate, obviously sometime at night, with the clouds above lit by at least one of the at least three moons of Coruscant
His argument thus, is that Anakin and Padme travelled from Tatooine to Genosis, in between the timeframe as established here. 15 - at least 21 hours.
He also addressed several rebuttals to this.Of relevance are these.
1.[E]xplain how the other Jedi travelled across "half the galaxy" quickly enough to arrive only a few hours after they did, at such a pathetic Trek-like rate of speed.
2. see some blue sky up and to the left on this image:.Therefore, G2k is lying when he says that's a night-time shot.
I will question the assumption that the timeframe established is the only possible timeframe for Anakin and Padme arrival and that the scene in question must occur in the night, as opposed to a storm.
1. Sequence of Anakin and Padme arrival.
Darkstar argues that Anakin and Padme required at least 15 hours, the time in which the Jedi Council received news of Obiwan capture and the convening of the Senate before they set foot on Genosis. However, the novelisation will appear to disprove this sequence of events. The sequence of paragraphs was this.
-Padme and Anakin pass the message on to the Jedi Council.
-The Jedi council is convinced Obi-wan is alive, and Mace Windu gives a order that has not been heard in many years."Assemble"
-Padme and Anakin decides to take off to chase after Obiwan.
-The Jedi Council are assembled with Palpatine, to argue for an emergency vote.Jar Jar decides to stand up to nominate Palpy.
-Padme and Anakin arrive at Genosis.
-Padme and Anakin sneak in through factory vent.
-Senate convenes.
What this mean is that according to the novelisation,instead of Anakin requiring at least 15-21 hours to arrive at Genosis, the 15-21 hours is an upper limit on how long it took him to arrive instead. Events further along will suggest instead that it was shorter, rather than longer.
2. Micheal Wong noted an immediate objection to his argument.
Why was it that the Jedi Council, over half a galaxy away, took only hours to reach Genosis, whereas Padme took half to an entire day?Darkstar raised the following rebuttals.
-("they'd have to travel halfway across the galaxy" is the actual quote) as a perfectly factual distance statement, one that somehow trumps the rather more specific "less than a parsec away"
-The counterargument hinges on the notion that daylight equals the same day, and that Anakin and Amidala were taken immediately for execution, unlike Obi-Wan. He was held for an absolute minimum (even assuming the immediate execution) of 15 hours, with nothing more than a five minute conversation with Dooku to show for it. And, of course, there's the hyperbole (a la Captain Pike identifying Earth to the Talosians as being "on the other end of this galaxy"). Well, gee, I'm convinced
Here are the rebuttals to Darkstar.
- He argued that Anakin and Amidala could had been detained for an entire day, and that Obi-wan was held for at least 15 hours. The assumption that Anakin, Amidala and Obi-wan were sentenced to be executed is stated to have no evidence at all.
AOTC novelisation has this to say.
Count Dooku was replying to Amidala asking what was the fate of Obiwan, shortly after her being captured. Count Dooku replied that he was due to be executed, in a few hours.Count Dooku,"(....)Why yes, in a few hours".
Following descriptions in the novelisation, not shown in the movie also indicated that the subsequent trial was quick, and that Amidala and Anakin were sentenced to die at the same time as Obi-wan.
On Coruscant, the Senate had already voted yes to Palpy being granted emergency powers and Mace windu and Yoda had each gone their seperate ways. What this meant was, in a few hours, Mace went half-way across the galaxy and reached Genosis, whereas Yoda went to Kamino first and then transited to Genosis, reaching Genosis only hours after that.
2. Is Padme statement that the Jedi are halfway across the galaxy hyperbole? Well, for the non purist debators, this is false. The Worlds of Star Wars Episode I has clearly demonstrated a distance of 52,000 to 70,000 ly as a lower limit for the distance between Tatooine and Coruscant. However, for Darkstar, such arguments are not acceptable. Thus, we have to debate into semantics.
The sequence in the sentences, as occured in the novelisation follows.
-Padme flicks switches and checked the coordinates. The Jedi will never make it in time. They have to travel halfway across the galaxy.
-Anakin says Mace Windu orders are for him to stay on Tatooine to protect Padme.
-Padme senses that Anakin is being crushed by his failure to save his mother, launches into an emotional tirade over how Genosis is only a parsec away and stressing the emotional ties between Anakin and Obi-wan.
Which is more likely to be hyperbole? The first, when Padme has just finished checking the coordinates for the planet Genosis, or the second, when Padme is railing at Anakin?
I say if that the second statement, more emotionally charged, is thus rendered as non hyperbolic in nature, then the first, more neutral is similarly as accurate as the second. Otherwise, both statements are to be taken as being too coloured by emotions for any real analysis to occur.
3. Colour of the sky.
- This is not an argument I wish to make right now, considering my failings in technical anaylsis of film. However, Darkstar rebuttal that the scene could only be nightime is false. Such a colour display, both in the corridor and in the picture he described, could similarly have been that caused by a storm occuring just before sunset, where the angle of the setting sun can trigger off such colour displays in an impending storm
