Prince uncovers 19th-century plot to make Texas German

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-08 09:33pm

www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=976482003

Prince uncovers 19th-century plot to make Texas German

ALLAN HALL IN BERLIN

AN EXTRAORDINARY 19th- century plot by German nobility to take over Texas and turn it into a German country has been uncovered by a historian looking through old records of some of Germany’s oldest families.

Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg discovered that in the 1840s, when Texas was still a republic, the nobles managed to raise a small fortune from the state of Prussia under cover of an economic club known as the Adelsverein, or Association of Nobility.

The association used the money to send almost 8,000 members to Texas on the pretext they were fleeing political persecution or poverty. But, according to the historian, many were wealthy aristocrats and military officers planning to take control of the republic.

"They used the clichéd image of impoverished immigrants flooding into the New World as cover to send thousands of their nobles, generals, and soldiers to Texas, to put their scheme into action," said Prince Sachsen-Altenburg.

He claims the man who hatched the plan to turn Texas Teutonic was Prince Carl von Solms-Braunfels, a German field marshal - and a blood relation of Queen Victoria - who had been hardened by European wars.

At the time, the bankrupt republic was protected by only a few hundred Texas rangers and had fewer than 40,000 people on its land.

As part of plans to win logistical aid from Britain, Prince Solms-Braunfels courted Victoria’s favour for a new "Germany in the West", claiming British economic interests in California and Mexico were threatened by a westward- moving United States.

According to the historian, the solution was to establish a German state of Texas.

From Europe, the Adelsverein had purchased more than three million acres of Texan land. But the group soon discovered it was unsuitable for farming and was occupied by some 10,000 warring Comanche Indians.

Under Prince Solms-Braunfels’s direction, the Germans established a series of forts such as Nassau, New Braunfels and Carlshafen - cities that still bear their German names.

To complement weaponry brought with them, correspondence sent back to Germany by Prince Solms-Braunfels in 1844 urgently called for more heavy artillery and rifles.

"Arms were sent over labelled only as ‘personal baggage’," said Prince Sachsen-Altenburg. "Hence it was not always documented at the US end."

The prince added that Britain considered sending military equipment overland from California. Messages between Lord Aberdeen, the foreign secretary, and the new German community were handled by William Kennedy, the British consul in Galveston.

"Unfortunately for the venture, it was this course of communication that ultimately proved their undoing and forced the US to speed up its annexation of Texas," the prince said.

"The government messenger was instructed to hand over the correspondence personally to the British consul. But instead of that, he was met by a US spy who drank him under the table and intercepted the information that was then sent to the White House."

Within weeks, James Polk, the US president, sent forces to the Texas border and Congress voted to annex the republic.

While Adelsverein diehards still aspired to establish a colony, financial and logistical support was largely withdrawn and the venture foundered several years later.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-09-08 09:34pm

Wow.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-09-08 09:38pm

*slams a frankfurter*

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-09-08 09:39pm

Y'know, untill I saw the article, I thought you meant the artist 'Prince' uncovered the plot.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-08 09:56pm

ROFL, that's great. I wonder what the name of Deutsch Texas would be...

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-09-08 10:14pm

Thatd definitely result in some screwed up maps if it succeeded. Deutschland uber alles!

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-09-08 10:36pm

Ein Deutsche Texas...how...odd...

Hmm, interesting find Shep, never heard of this.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-09-08 10:37pm

And on a second though, could you imagine redneck Germans? Gooteyn taawg, ya'll.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-09-08 10:47pm

Nathan F wrote:And on a second though, could you imagine redneck Germans? Gooteyn taawg, ya'll.

They're already here, they're the ones playing the accordians.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-09-08 10:50pm

Rubberanvil wrote:
Nathan F wrote:And on a second though, could you imagine redneck Germans? Gooteyn taawg, ya'll.
They're already here, they're the ones playing the accordians.

Oh, lol. I am sure the Texan Germans would sound like me when I *attempt* to speak German.

Bug-Eyed Earl · Post by **Bug-Eyed Earl** » 2003-09-08 11:01pm

Hmmm...

Friendship or Freundschaft?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-09-09 02:04am

If this had happened, we likely would have seen the wars of Europe spill into North America, with a French-backed Mexico, a Prussian Texas, a California Republic and an Oregon territory still English.

Perhaps some 19th century war in an alternate earth could have seen German tanks rolling across the Rio grande while American and English troops invaded San Fransisco Bay.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-09-09 02:19am

They're already here in New Braunsfeld...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-09 09:26am

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:Y'know, untill I saw the article, I thought you meant the artist 'Prince' uncovered the plot.

Me too... when I saw this thread I was thinking "Prince? The singer?" and had visions of him standing at a press conference in a bright pink business suit explaining in detail about how the Prussian government of the time was planning to seize Texas for Prussia.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-09 09:34am

Then again, America already has German rednecks. They just live in the middle of Pennsylvania, not Texas. Like on my road trip onces to New York, me and my bro ate at a place near Hershey called "The Pancake Haus".

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-09 03:34pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:If this had happened, we likely would have seen the wars of Europe spill into North America, with a French-backed Mexico, a Prussian Texas, a California Republic and an Oregon territory still English.

Perhaps some 19th century war in an alternate earth could have seen German tanks rolling across the Rio grande while American and English troops invaded San Fransisco Bay.

No most likely we'd quickly see a war in which both the Prussians and Mexico get their asses kicked and America expands just as it did historically. And with Prussia's naval might being non-existent they couldn't do jack shit about it. And tanks didn't exist in the 19th century anyway.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-09-09 05:39pm

Isn't the capital of North Dakota Bismarck?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-09-09 08:09pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:If this had happened, we likely would have seen the wars of Europe spill into North America, with a French-backed Mexico, a Prussian Texas, a California Republic and an Oregon territory still English.

Perhaps some 19th century war in an alternate earth could have seen German tanks rolling across the Rio grande while American and English troops invaded San Fransisco Bay.
No most likely we'd quickly see a war in which both the Prussians and Mexico get their asses kicked and America expands just as it did historically. And with Prussia's naval might being non-existent they couldn't do jack shit about it. And tanks didn't exist in the 19th century anyway.

I was referring to a WWI in which there was a North American front with the Germans and the English going at each other. I don't see why there would have been a war with America over this; We had good relations with Prussia (better than those with England) and Texas really wasn't ours.

If a significant part of the population of Texas was German, we would have had to conquer and pacify it instead of integrating it rather bloodlessly.

You can't possibly think a Prussian Texas wouldn't make a difference. As soon as we went to war with them, a third of Europe would declare war on America. England wanted any excuse to get their land back, and France wasn't too happy they had sold Louisiana.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-09 08:31pm

Whisky Tango Foxtrot ^ infinity

God Emperor · Post by **God Emperor** » 2003-09-09 08:39pm

Bob McDob wrote:Isn't the capital of North Dakota Bismarck?

Yeah, but there's nothing up there, except snow in the winter.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-09-09 08:55pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:Then again, America already has German rednecks. They just live in the middle of Pennsylvania, not Texas. Like on my road trip onces to New York, me and my bro ate at a place near Hershey called "The Pancake Haus".

They also live in Texas Hill Country. One of my Buddies at Texas A&M was from a Town west of Austin called Fredericksburg. I at at his folks house for a Thanksgiving, and it was German to the point of Signs (although they looked a bit old) still on the street in German.

Hometown of Nimitz.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-09-09 09:15pm

I read once that people of German descent make up the largest ethnic group in the U.S.

Nortena music, the Mexican pop crap with the "oompah-pah" tubas and accordians, is German music with a Spanish accent.

There are German speaking Menonite communities in Mexico.

Maybe those wacky Germans are still at it, just working REAL slow?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-09-09 10:02pm

"Achtung, y'all!"

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-09 10:48pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
I was referring to a WWI in which there was a North American front with the Germans and the English going at each other. I don't see why there would have been a war with America over this; We had good relations with Prussia (better than those with England) and Texas really wasn't ours.
*SNIP*
You can't possibly think a Prussian Texas wouldn't make a difference. As soon as we went to war with them, a third of Europe would declare war on America. England wanted any excuse to get their land back, and France wasn't too happy they had sold Louisiana.

Then why the hell did we ally with them in WWI?!?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-09 10:56pm

Vorlon1701 wrote:
Then why the hell did we ally with them in WWI?!?

Because of the whole " the world can change quite a bit in 70 years" thing.