Photorps are only 10MT

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-25 08:38pm

The TM (and I think elsewhere) claims that deuterium/antideuterium is used in trek M/AM reactions. If this is so, than the energy released is only half that of "regular" antihydrogen/hydrogen of the same mass. This is because the neutrons would probably be the same in both deuterium/antideuterium. This would mean that half the mass of the deuterium is just dead weight, since the neutrons will not annihilate. The mass would be the same, but the energy released half as much. The neutrons have the mass of an electron and a proton(and a bit more for the neutrino, I think). Since a bit more than half of the mass in an atom of deuterium is not usable, then the reaction will only be slightly less than half as powerful as neutronless matter/antimatter (hydrogen).

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2002-09-25 08:58pm

Well the TM is not canon but if that elsewhere is a show that would be anotehr story.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-25 09:01pm

That is in line with my low-end estimates, but I don't think the Trekkies would accept it.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-25 09:06pm

Master of Ossus wrote:That is in line with my low-end estimates, but I don't think the Trekkies would accept it.

Hence the use of the term Low-End

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-25 09:09pm

Alyeska wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:That is in line with my low-end estimates, but I don't think the Trekkies would accept it.
Hence the use of the term Low-End

Precisely. My mid range is somewhere between 30 and 70 MT.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-25 09:19pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:That is in line with my low-end estimates, but I don't think the Trekkies would accept it.
Hence the use of the term Low-End
Precisely. My mid range is somewhere between 30 and 70 MT.

While I find the lower part of your mid range to be somewhat low, it is still an acceptable range. Being mid range, it is the most logical number to use because it takes the middle ground between extreme examples (such as ST:5 or TDIC).

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2002-09-25 09:46pm

Actually neutrons and anti-neutrons do annihilate, or at least they annihilate to about the same degree as protons and anti-protons. Any inefficiencies would be caused by the fact that baryons are not point particles; they are made up of quarks and anti-quarks, which would have to directly collide to properly annihilate.

So, you're wrong, but the current method of calculating yield gives a result that is probably too high anyway.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-25 10:02pm

I don't think there is such thing as an antineutron

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2002-09-26 12:42am

johnpham wrote:I don't think there is such thing as an antineutron

Look it up; it exists. It's made out of two antidown quarks and one antiup quark, the opposite of the neutron's two down and one up quark. The antineutron has zero charge, but its other properties are opposite of the neutron's: its magnetic moment is the opposite of the neutron, among others.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-26 07:46am

Speaking of funny things I've been checking around the various forums and it seems while Trekkys love to use High End numbers and never accept less than mid level numbers but always seemed shocked when Warsi's want to use anything BUT minium numbers

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-26 07:46am

Oh, yeah I looked it up now. You are right. doh!!!

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-26 11:27am

Always comes down to how efficient the reaction is. I guess they think that it's always a 100% efficient reaction (which, with 1.5 kg of AM, IIRC, corresponds to the high-end 65 MT yield).

Question: anyone know how efficient current nuclear warheads are in terms of releasing their energy? 25%? 50%? 33%? 99 44/100 %?

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-26 12:33pm

I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-26 02:55pm

SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)

Don't be an idiot. Do you really think that Kirk would call down a MT level weapon just 30 feet from where he is standing? And did you notice it was the ONLY example of photon torpedoes being blue in color since TMP?

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2002-09-26 05:07pm

SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)

We've also seen infantry weapons make explosions of just about the same size (ST: I, Worf's phaser bazooka). Does it make any sense at all that the largest infantry weapon is at least a tenth as powerful as a photon torpedo?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2002-09-27 12:03am

Alyeska wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)
Don't be an idiot. Do you really think that Kirk would call down a MT level weapon just 30 feet from where he is standing?

So photon torps aren't megaton level. Ok.

And did you notice it was the ONLY example of photon torpedoes being blue in color since TMP?

Inrtentional, since Shatner wanted to make it look and sound like the first one. Which is why he used TMP's theme music.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-27 12:15am

Eframepilot wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)
We've also seen infantry weapons make explosions of just about the same size (ST: I, Worf's phaser bazooka). Does it make any sense at all that the largest infantry weapon is at least a tenth as powerful as a photon torpedo?

Okay, so their infantry weapons are powerful when compared with their large scale weapons. Concession accepted.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-27 12:44am

It was mulitple yield, they wanted Kirk to get away, Vad.... I mean whoever was in charge of the Ent-A at the time didnt want to kill kirk so he could lead them to the rebel..... I mean so Kirk didnt die.

Maybe they wanted to capture God for study everyone knows when trying to capture someone you miss alot and fire you weakest ship board weapons - or so I have heard.

And yes the above was heavy sarcasm to show my utter disdain for some utterly stupid comments, hell you get a double award

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-27 09:33am

No, they wanted to destroy "God".

And if it was a lower-yield torpedo than normal, then a) Kirk would have actually ordered them to fire a lower-yield torpedo (which he doesn't), and b) Spock and company wouldn't have been worried about firing one so close to Kirk's position (it's like firing/throwing a grenade near a friendly position: you only worry about warning them if they're going to be in danger from the grenade).

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-27 10:44am

Alyeska wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)
Don't be an idiot. Do you really think that Kirk would call down a MT level weapon just 30 feet from where he is standing? And did you notice it was the ONLY example of photon torpedoes being blue in color since TMP?

A fucking rock thrown from that height would have done more damage. Instead, it was launched from a photon tube.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-27 01:13pm

greenmm wrote:No, they wanted to destroy "God".

And if it was a lower-yield torpedo than normal, then a) Kirk would have actually ordered them to fire a lower-yield torpedo (which he doesn't), and b) Spock and company wouldn't have been worried about firing one so close to Kirk's position (it's like firing/throwing a grenade near a friendly position: you only worry about warning them if they're going to be in danger from the grenade).

Don't be a complete dumbass. This has got to be the dumbest line of reasoning I have ever seen.

This was not your standard torpedo (as mentioned by color) and anyone with half a brain would realize that Kirk would want to live.

FYI, rewatch the movie. Here is Kirk's exact words in regards to the torpedo.

"Kirk to Enterprise..."

I want your proof he ordered down a full powered torpedo right on top of himself.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-27 01:14pm

SolidSnake wrote:
Alyeska wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:I dont think photorps are very powerful. We have only seen them make small explosions. (Star Trek V: where they blow up God)
Don't be an idiot. Do you really think that Kirk would call down a MT level weapon just 30 feet from where he is standing? And did you notice it was the ONLY example of photon torpedoes being blue in color since TMP?
A fucking rock thrown from that height would have done more damage. Instead, it was launched from a photon tube.

Did you note the speed of the torpedo when it struck? That was not your standard weapon. It obviously slowed before impact.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-09-27 02:00pm

I wouldn't claim that ST5 is a reasonable example of ST torpedo firepower. Similarly, I wouldn't claim that TDIC is a reasonable example of ST torpedo firepower.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-27 02:06pm

Alyeska wrote:
greenmm wrote:No, they wanted to destroy "God".

And if it was a lower-yield torpedo than normal, then a) Kirk would have actually ordered them to fire a lower-yield torpedo (which he doesn't), and b) Spock and company wouldn't have been worried about firing one so close to Kirk's position (it's like firing/throwing a grenade near a friendly position: you only worry about warning them if they're going to be in danger from the grenade).
Don't be a complete dumbass. This has got to be the dumbest line of reasoning I have ever seen.

This was not your standard torpedo (as mentioned by color) and anyone with half a brain would realize that Kirk would want to live.

FYI, rewatch the movie. Here is Kirk's exact words in regards to the torpedo.

"Kirk to Enterprise..."

I want your proof he ordered down a full powered torpedo right on top of himself.

Color has nothing to do with power. Or are you implying that the torpedoes the E-nil fired in ST:TMP were purposefully underpowered? Nowhere else do we see a color change denoting a reduction in photon torpedo power. In fact, the only difference seems to be the number fired, not the charge on the torpedo. Heck, if we go by color, then Quantum torpedoes must be less powerful, because they're blue as well.

As for Kirk's order... again, where did he tell them to fire an underpowered torpedo? Did he explicitly say not to fire a full-powered torpedo? Or did he just tell them to fire a torpedo at the being's location? Again, if there was no danger from his proximity to the torpedo, they wouldn't have been reluctant to carry it out.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-09-27 02:40pm

The answer is simple - God absorbed the blast, we have seen much greater fire power before (in fact everywhere else I believe), therefore we look whats different about this situation - it was god, Ding Ding Ding we have a winner.

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Photorps are only 10MT

Photorps are only 10MT

Re: Photorps are only 10MT