How to balance the budget and pay off the national Debt

[Stuart Mackey]

Myself, I support invading, pillaging, and looting Europe, then paying off the national debt through ransoms, monetary demands, and the sale of priceless historical artifacts

Are you English?

[Edi]

There's also the little fact that if and when much of that land went for sale, it'd be big corporations buying up most of it for next to nothing. I saw a documentary a couple of years back about cleaning up played-out mining sites in the US, and it turns out that by some twist of the law, corporations (I'm not sure about private citizens) can buy land from the government at a roughly uniform price (that is ridiculously low in the first place) no matter what resources that land contains, unknown, or known! This means that selling off any of the attractive land (the one with resources) is a net loss on the order of tens of millions of dollars per site at the very least. I'm not sure if that law has been changed, but I got the impression it hasn't.

You want a balanced budget, that means curbing the behavior that unbalances it in the first place. Cutting corporate and farm welfare (tax breaks and subsidies, respectively) would be the swiftest way of doing that, but mere mention of it is political suicide, and thus won't happen. Reducing unnecessary military spending would also help some, but nowhere near as much as the first two.

Edi

[Knife]

You want a balanced budget, that means curbing the behavior that unbalances it in the first place. Cutting corporate and farm welfare (tax breaks and subsidies, respectively) would be the swiftest way of doing that, but mere mention of it is political suicide, and thus won't happen.

Agreed, and on the other side, social programes need to be cut and let the individual states deal with it.

Reducing unnecessary military spending would also help some, but nowhere near as much as the first two.

Booo, nobody will defend us, like us. Though there is some fat in there that could be cut, like the so called Trent Lot class and other bullshit projects that are there just to give defense jobs to political donners.

[Edi]

Agreed, and on the other side, social programes need to be cut and let the individual states deal with it.

I don't know that social programs in America necessarily need to be cut so much as restructured to eliminate bureaucratic bloat, overlap and inefficiency, that should save money while keeping the services still more or less intact and available. They just did a study about that with regard to hospital services in the Helsinki district here, and the amount of money being wasted on bureaucracy was staggering.

Reducing unnecessary military spending would also help some, but nowhere near as much as the first two.

Booo, nobody will defend us, like us. Though there is some fat in there that could be cut, like the so called Trent Lot class and other bullshit projects that are there just to give defense jobs to political donners.

I was thinking more along the lines of the now mostly unnecessary (?) European bases and the white elephant projects, not an across-the-board cut. I know how those are regarded, so it wouldn't do any good to bring them up...

Edi

[TrailerParkJawa]

There's also the little fact that if and when much of that land went for sale, it'd be big corporations buying up most of it for next to nothing. I saw a documentary a couple of years back about cleaning up played-out mining sites in the US, and it turns out that by some twist of the law, corporations (I'm not sure about private citizens) can buy land from the government at a roughly uniform price (that is ridiculously low in the first place) no matter what resources that land contains, unknown, or known!

You are refering to the Mining Act of 1872. And yes, federal lands can be sold extremely cheap since the original intention of the act was to bring people to the West. The ridiculous low prices are because they have never been adjusted for modern times. Land can be converted to private use for 5 dollars an acre which is the price set when the Act was passed. Although the land is not always transferred for the purpose of mining.

[Knife]

I don't know that social programs in America necessarily need to be cut so much as restructured to eliminate bureaucratic bloat, overlap and inefficiency, that should save money while keeping the services still more or less intact and available. They just did a study about that with regard to hospital services in the Helsinki district here, and the amount of money being wasted on bureaucracy was staggering.

I can deal with that, though some times the whole program or department is the bureaucratic bloat. Department of Education comes to mind. I know, I don't want the children to get an education........ But really, the bureaucracy of such departments suck up most of the cash before it does its job.

I was thinking more along the lines of the now mostly unnecessary (?) European bases and the white elephant projects, not an across-the-board cut. I know how those are regarded, so it wouldn't do any good to bring them up...

Thats more or less what I meant. The so called Trent Lott class gator ship and the Crusader and such can go bye bye. Most of European bases can go. But redirect the money to other military projects instead of just cutting it.

[Iceberg]

TRENT LOTT class!?

*gags*

[MKSheppard]

and the Crusader and such can go bye bye. Most of European bases can go.

The M109 Paladins aren't getting any newer you know...That was one of the
most boneheaded moves we did in a while - while everyone else is putting
forth modern SP artillery, such as the PzH2000, we're dicking along with a
40+ year old system that's approaching the end of it's expansion life...

[Knife]

and the Crusader and such can go bye bye. Most of European bases can go.

The M109 Paladins aren't getting any newer you know...That was one of the
most boneheaded moves we did in a while - while everyone else is putting
forth modern SP artillery, such as the PzH2000, we're dicking along with a
40+ year old system that's approaching the end of it's expansion life...

True and I am an advocate for replacing them. But not with the super ubber costs 10 times as much as other SPA pieces especialy with the super ubber ammo trailer (sold seprately, batteries not included).

[MKSheppard]

True and I am an advocate for replacing them. But not with the super ubber costs 10 times as much as other SPA pieces especialy with the super ubber ammo trailer (sold seprately, batteries not included).

You do realize it will take another ten years and umpteen billion dollars to
design a replacement for the Crusader now?

[Knife]

True and I am an advocate for replacing them. But not with the super ubber costs 10 times as much as other SPA pieces especialy with the super ubber ammo trailer (sold seprately, batteries not included).

You do realize it will take another ten years and umpteen billion dollars to
design a replacement for the Crusader now?

Why? I'll tell you why. Cause they want the super ubber mobile. I would be ok for the spending for a good SPA piece but to make it chopp, dice, and wash your dishes, I don't want to spend the money. There is a limit on how much new tech and toys you can put in a vehicle before it becomes a black hole for cash.

[phongn]

and the Crusader and such can go bye bye. Most of European bases can go.

The M109 Paladins aren't getting any newer you know...That was one of the
most boneheaded moves we did in a while - while everyone else is putting
forth modern SP artillery, such as the PzH2000, we're dicking along with a
40+ year old system that's approaching the end of it's expansion life...

Actually, the M109 is at the end of its expansion life. The Thais tested an M109A7 and it was quite overloaded; there's no more room to go on that thing.

[Wicked Pilot]

Sell Mississippi to Mexico, that would help the debt. I'm not sure if they'd take it though, considering the amount of investment they would need to bring it up to at least 3rd world status.

[Rubberanvil]

You are refering to the Mining Act of 1872. And yes, federal lands can be sold extremely cheap since the original intention of the act was to bring people to the West. The ridiculous low prices are because they have never been adjusted for modern times.

There's also anything mined, or harvested from the land the Corporations pay hardly taxes to the Government.

[Sea Skimmer]

The M109 Paladins aren't getting any newer you know...That was one of the
most boneheaded moves we did in a while - while everyone else is putting
forth modern SP artillery, such as the PzH2000, we're dicking along with a
40+ year old system that's approaching the end of it's expansion life...

Excalibur rounds can get the needed range for counter battery fire out of an M109's tube and Crusader needed the same shell to get beyond the 40 kilometers other nations have had for two decades. Anyway fire at 39-40 kilometer is of limited value, the dispersion of unguided shells is over 350 meters, which greatly limits their effectiveness and makes for a very large danger space for friendly forces.

Still I would have preferred Crusader stayed, but really the number of 39-40 kilometer range guns that we will face in the next decade or two is quite limited, Iraq had about 500 G5's and G6's but we still owned them in the artillery battles and we already have an MLRS round which can match that range, and missions other then counter battery SP guns can generally do the whole "mobility" thing and move closer to the target.

[HemlockGrey]

Are you English?

Not particularly. Is Europe a British wrecking-ground? Because Mexico doesn't really have much valuable loot.

[Stuart Mackey]

Are you English?

Not particularly. Is Europe a British wrecking-ground? Because Mexico doesn't really have much valuable loot.

Well France has always been the English battle ground.