Sweden rejects the Euro

[Colonel Olrik]

Bah, whatever, it's their loss. Funny that all the moderate political parties and the entire bussiness class wanted the Euro. The majority of the population aligned with such paragons of virtue as the greens and the commies.

They will join, sooner or later.

On a related news, a poll conducted at the same time in Denmark gave a clear victory to the Euro, so the Swedish results are not a foreshadow of what will happen there.

[TheDarkling]

Bah, whatever, it's their loss. Funny that all the moderate political parties and the entire bussiness class wanted the Euro. The majority of the population aligned with such paragons of virtue as the greens and the commies.

They will join, sooner or later.

On a related news, a poll conducted at the same time in Denmark gave a clear victory to the Euro, so the Swedish results are not a foreshadow of what will happen there.

Pffft The big news from yesterday is that the might Baltic state of Estonia voted to join the EU.

Sweden is out of the Euro for at least another 7 years, news from Denmark is encouraging and Blair is biding his time and hoping the Euro will pick up so he can make a play in his third term.

Here is hoping the Swiss elections next month prove encouraging for their assim.... ascension to the EU.

[NecronLord]

Here is hoping the Swiss elections next month prove encouraging for their assim.... ascension to the EU.

We are the European Union. Lower your defences and surrender your sovereignty, you will be assimilated. We shall add you economical and cultural distinctiveness to our own. Your coinage will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

Damm. I wasn't meant to say that was I?

[Vympel]

You are obviously a clandestine member of the Cult of Borg.

[NecronLord]

You are obviously a clandestine member of the Cult of Borg.

The EU are categorically not anti biotechnology due to our last experience with genetically engineered organisms...

[Iceberg]

Actually there's an amusing article on that neocon rag the Weekly Standard arguing that a united Europe must be stopped at all costs to prevent it from restraining American power blah blah blah typical neo-imperialist bs.

Let me guess, Pat Buchanan and his ilk?

Actually, probably Project for a New American Century people. Buchanan's an isolationist.

[Joe]

Buchanan doesn't like the EU either, for what it's worth.

[Soulman]

Bah, whatever, it's their loss. Funny that all the moderate political parties and the entire bussiness class wanted the Euro. The majority of the population aligned with such paragons of virtue as the greens and the commies.

They will join, sooner or later.

On a related news, a poll conducted at the same time in Denmark gave a clear victory to the Euro, so the Swedish results are not a foreshadow of what will happen there.

They should join because the Eurozone economies are performing sooo much better than the Swedish economy. Swedish growth is lower and unemplyment is higher.

Oh wait, isn't it the other way around?

[TheDarkling]

They should join because the Eurozone economies are performing sooo much better than the Swedish economy. Swedish growth is lower and unemplyment is higher.

Oh wait, isn't it the other way around?

The Euro zone economies are suffering because of how their economies are set up (inefficient labour laws and such) not because they happen to have the Euro.

Several Euro countries outstrip Sweden in growth rates at the moment and most of the less are in the same neighbourhood only a few fall way behind, most notably Portugal, Italy and Germany.

Norway and Switzerland who are outside the EU are showing bad growth rates with Switzerland being the second worst in Western Europe.

As for unemployment Sweden is doing well but it is still behind 4 Euro zone members and the 2 other non Euro zone members of the EU15.

However these facts and figures also need to be looked at with the potential consequences of staying out, the Swedish Krone has the fortitude of a Frenchmen defending his home soil (which is to say very little to insta-fold) and has caused problems for them in the past joining the Euro would have removed this problem and for an export oriented country it would have also kept companies in place, companies that now may move operations to the Euro Zone in order to avoid the problems associated with relying on currency conversion.

I could also point out that Sweden has already agreed to join the Euro in treaties they have signed and it is only by the EU's good graces that they remain outside it , mainly because in the long run the only negative effect of this decision will be felt by Sweden and not the Euro Zone as a whole.

[Colonel Olrik]

They should join because the Eurozone economies are performing sooo much better than the Swedish economy. Swedish growth is lower and unemplyment is higher.

Oh wait, isn't it the other way around?

adding to what Darkling said:

The swedish economy is inside the E.U and almost totally E.U oriented. That means, of course, it follows E.U trends. Do you believe their coin would hold if the Euro happened to go down? Being outside the Euro zones only has two pratical results for them: they can't have a voice in the Central Bank, which continues to be determinant to them anyway, and their industry loses competitivity because of the added difficulty in transaction.

Next time, think why would the entire moderate political spectrum and industrial class make campaign for the Euro if it didn't bring visible advantages to the country.

[Peregrin Toker]

The Eastern European countries are queuing up to get into the EU, Slovenia is on the fast track to the Euro(being the most well off new members) and the other nations will follow once they get the chance, Norway?s resistance to the EU is falling as is Switzerland?s and the anti EU members in the UK are committing suicide at the gates of Westminster, all in all things are great in EU land, praise be to socialism.

I'm not sure at which point that became a parody but there you go.

While it's a bit of an exaggeration to call the EU "socialist", it is true that the EU is imposing ridiculous levels of protectionism which give European farmers an unfair advantage... and this is quite ironic, given that the EU was formed with the purpose of ensuring free trade.

[Colonel Olrik]

While it's a bit of an exaggeration to call the EU "socialist", it is true that the EU is imposing ridiculous levels of protectionism which give European farmers an unfair advantage... and this is quite ironic, given that the EU was formed with the purpose of ensuring free trade.

Between themselves, poor countries be damned. The one thing that bothers me is that, given the fact that our infrastructures and menpower must always be a lot more expensive than in countries where slave payments are still the norm, a complete free market would obviously ruin our agriculture, and then we'd pass from a situation where we're fully selfsufficient in food to a situation where we're dependant on third world countries in that vital field.

[Stuart Mackey]

Between themselves, poor countries be damned. The one thing that bothers me is that, given the fact that our infrastructures and menpower must always be a lot more expensive than in countries where slave payments are still the norm, a complete free market would obviously ruin our agriculture, and then we'd pass from a situation where we're fully selfsufficient in food to a situation where we're dependant on third world countries in that vital field.

What a crock of shit. NZ got rid of subsidies and here farmers are expected to work for a living. NZ agriculture survived, indeed it thrives without protectionist rubbish..if we can do it so can Europe.

[TheDarkling]

While it's a bit of an exaggeration to call the EU "socialist", it is true that the EU is imposing ridiculous levels of protectionism which give European farmers an unfair advantage... and this is quite ironic, given that the EU was formed with the purpose of ensuring free trade.

Well its not like the US isn't doing exactly the same, at least the EU's subsidies have been reformed now to make sure they fill there true function (supporting the family farm not the huge mega farms) and that they also task farmers with keeping wildlife in their areas thriving.

It is only a step in CAP reform but the French won't let us do anymore than that I'm afraid at least not Chirac who used to agriculture minister so it is his pet project.

[Lord Pounder]

The euro is a bad idea. Always has been Always will be. It's just one step onto the path of an USE. The point is why should Sweden or THe UK submitt to a currency and an ideal that will inevitable make them weaker? Maybe i'm being a dumb capitalist but i believe that giving away my economic stability was a bad idea. Sweden was lucky. Our own Blundertaker, as a UK Newpaper called Tony Blair, has sent his heart on this and the fucker isn't even gonna give us a vote on it. Heven forbid we should be allowed to decide out own future.

[TheDarkling]

The euro is a bad idea. Always has been Always will be. It's just one step onto the path of an USE.

No it is about the third of forth step actually although I don't necessarily see the USE as a bad thing at least I would get a vote on who control the foreign policy of the nation instead of him being appointed by some colonials no the other side of the pond.

The point is why should Sweden or THe UK submitt to a currency and an ideal that will inevitable make them weaker?

True enough, I'm sure Hawaii would be a power house if the other 49 states weren't weighing it down or maybe we would be hearing about the Rhode Island led coalition in Iraq.

Maybe i'm being a dumb capitalist but i believe that giving away my economic stability was a bad idea. Sweden was lucky. Our own Blundertaker, as a UK Newpaper called Tony Blair, has sent his heart on this and the fucker isn't even gonna give us a vote on it. Heven forbid we should be allowed to decide out own future.

Not getting a vote on what?

[Colonel Olrik]

What a crock of shit. NZ got rid of subsidies and here farmers are expected to work for a living. NZ agriculture survived, indeed it thrives without protectionist rubbish..if we can do it so can Europe.

Sorry, I wasn't refering to subsidies, those should end and they're insulting to everybody and serve only to feed a class of rich idiots who like to buy SUVs at my cost. I was refering to the typical problem of lifting the trade barriers. While I'm all for it (and we should invest in hightech and quality, not stuff third worlders can produce) it is a fact that countries with low production costs have an advantage.

edit: spelling

[Colonel Olrik]

The euro is a bad idea. Always has been Always will be. It's just one step onto the path of an USE.

A giant step in fact, hurrah for the USE

The point is why should Sweden or THe UK submitt to a currency and an ideal that will inevitable make them weaker?

OK, explain how it will make them weaker.

[Stuart Mackey]

Sorry, I wasn't refering to subsidies, those should end and they're insulting to everybody and serve only to feed a class of rich idiots who like to buy SUVs at my cost. I was refering to the typical problem of lifting the trade barriers. While I'm all for it (and we should invest in hightech and quality, not stuff third worlders can produce) it is a fact that countries with low production costs have an advantage.

edit: spelling

Again, this is simply nonsence, whart are you afraid of? that consumer have a choice? sure some nation, esp China have distinct adavantages with cheap labour, but if you cannot make a profit without trade barriers you have no bussiness trying to compete at the expence of the taxpayer.
Then there is also the moral factor. Europe, and America and Japan whith their protectionism, garuntee that the third world will never be more than what it is, as they cannot sell anything to make their own lives better.

[Lord Pounder]

The Euro will make us weaker because we, the british have a strong economy, Why should we be forced to prop up a weak economy. Why should we give away our strength to make them the same level as us.

By what i meant by us in the UK not getting a vote i mean that while Tony Blair promised us a referendum on the issue of the Euro he has yet to implement his, all the while trying to force through bills that support the euro. Hell half the shops in the UK accept the Euro, this is supported by the goverment.

[TheDarkling]

The Euro will make us weaker because we, the british have a strong economy, Why should we be forced to prop up a weak economy. Why should we give away our strength to make them the same level as us.

We already give money to the EU (although not a huge amount) and being part of the Euro won't mean a greater transfer of money nor will it weaken the UK economy just because we are tied to the Euro (although the ECB policies need some reform).

By what i meant by us in the UK not getting a vote i mean that while Tony Blair promised us a referendum on the issue of the Euro he has yet to implement his, all the while trying to force through bills that support the euro. Hell half the shops in the UK accept the Euro, this is supported by the goverment.

We will get a vote on the Euro when Blair thinks he can win it until then we won't.

[Joe]

Then there is also the moral factor. Europe, and America and Japan whith their protectionism, garuntee that the third world will never be more than what it is, as they cannot sell anything to make their own lives better.

Now that isn't fair. American protectionism isn't too hard on third world countries, and it won't be unless either the Buchananites or Naderites get their way (or even Dean, for that matter). That doesn't mean it's OK, just means it isn't that bad. American companies bring thousands of jobs to third-world countries (for which they are routinely maligned, of course, but c'est la vie).

[Stuart Mackey]

Then there is also the moral factor. Europe, and America and Japan whith their protectionism, garuntee that the third world will never be more than what it is, as they cannot sell anything to make their own lives better.

Now that isn't fair. American protectionism isn't too hard on third world countries, and it won't be unless either the Buchananites or Naderites get their way (or even Dean, for that matter). That doesn't mean it's OK, just means it isn't that bad. American companies bring thousands of jobs to third-world countries (for which they are routinely maligned, of course, but c'est la vie).

Ahh and what do you give the third world? sure they can trade with America, but only if the stuff in the product is mostly American made, and then its still subject to quota. But naturally you, by treaty, ensure that American goods and companies get unfettered acess to Africa..nahh your not to hard on them

[Peregrin Toker]

While it's a bit of an exaggeration to call the EU "socialist", it is true that the EU is imposing ridiculous levels of protectionism which give European farmers an unfair advantage... and this is quite ironic, given that the EU was formed with the purpose of ensuring free trade.

Between themselves, poor countries be damned. The one thing that bothers me is that, given the fact that our infrastructures and menpower must always be a lot more expensive than in countries where slave payments are still the norm, a complete free market would obviously ruin our agriculture, and then we'd pass from a situation where we're fully selfsufficient in food to a situation where we're dependant on third world countries in that vital field.

Is it that bad?? The third world countries would probably benefit economically from such a situation, and if there's anything a third world country needs it's a strong economy.

[Joe]

Ahh and what do you give the third world?

Jobs that on average pay higher wages than the local companies do.

sure they can trade with America, but only if the stuff in the product is mostly American made, and then its still subject to quota. But naturally you, by treaty, ensure that American goods and companies get unfettered acess to Africa..nahh your not to hard on them

You do realize that there are many third world countries elsewhere in the world?