Dominion Super Cap Ships

[Kamakazie Sith]

Well the assumption is not unsupported because (as has been stated a million times before) a transport's small guns for self defense are of another caliber than the main guns of a capital warship, you wouldn't say a 6 inch gun is no more powerful than a 16 inch.
Using scaling, Peta-ton estimates are not unreasonable.
200 gigatons, though, are still sufficient.

But it's still an assumtion, okay that's all I wanted to know. Until I hear otherwise, 200GT is the max canon number for TL.

200GT is the max canon number for QTL's mounted on Acclamator's, correct.

And could possibily be for an ISD, till proven otherwise. If you have proof that the TL on an ISD are more powerful than those mounted on Acclamators then I will accept it.

[CmdrWilkens]

It all depends what you peg the Feds fire power at - if its Kilotons then being better than that isnt great, MT same again, GT hmm might be getting somewhere, TT now we are talking, PT no chance thats to much fire power no matter what one incident says (you would be an idiot to take one example over everything else shown when you can at least bring it down to reasonable levels that fit with other canon evidence).

On this sort of scale the Borg/8472/other super ships yoyo about from being bugs on the windshield to actual threats but since there are no accepted and proven values theres little to work from.

The problem with pegging them very high lies in the very nature of the ST galaxy as a whole.In the end even uber-ships will suffer limitations of firepower, weapons throughput, power generations, shielding, etc that hamper other vessels. Based simply on historical models one would guess that even such uber-shis will not have more than 1 or 2 orders of magnitude mroe firepower and/or combat effective firepower (offensive versus defenisve power since a dead ship kills no one) when compared with its more common brethren. Now given that ST ships, baseline, might be taken to fight with firepowers in the tens of megatons per second range.

Our hypothetical "average ship" now has a firepower of 50MT/s. Our "rough model" uber-ship would have 5 GT/s firepower. This would mean even an uber-ship would be at least 40 times less powerful than an /Acclamator/.

Basically the point here is that uber-ships historically are not so significantly advanced compared to their brethren that they can make up a 4 order of magnitude difference in firepower and combat sustainability.

[Howedar]

I don't think that, but then again how do you know that TL technology has advanced any? What if the only reason the transport doesn't stand up to an ISD in combat is because the ISD has many more of them (which it does if I'm not mistaken), and better shields?

Then again it could be higher but we don't know, and people seem to be talking like 200 GT MEDIUM TL are an accepted fact, when in reality it isn't.

The Superlaser on the Death Star is technically a "compound turbolaser." Concession accepted.

[Alyeska]

FYI, there is no 5km long super battleship in the Dominion. The only time we ever got to see that super huge ship was the final fleet shot of What you Leave Behind. That was it. Never saw it in combat at all. The only one in combat was the 1.2km long dreadnaught. The 5km long ship was a VFX mistake.

[Master of Ossus]

Wasn't there a ship larger than even those kilometer ones that was seen in the wormhole in "Sacrifice of Angels"? I thought that the big one in the middle was supposed to be larger than that.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I don't think that, but then again how do you know that TL technology has advanced any? What if the only reason the transport doesn't stand up to an ISD in combat is because the ISD has many more of them (which it does if I'm not mistaken), and better shields?

Then again it could be higher but we don't know, and people seem to be talking like 200 GT MEDIUM TL are an accepted fact, when in reality it isn't.

The Superlaser on the Death Star is technically a "compound turbolaser." Concession accepted.

Evidence that this technology is able to be employed on Capital ship weapons? Your concession is accepted.

The Death Star Superlaser is special technology, you need proof if you wish to claim that it's technology is also used aboard ISDs.

[Howedar]

Out of curiosity, is that a stated fact, or is it logical discarding of specific visuals, like the 500,000km-wide BOP?

[Master of Ossus]

200GT is the max canon number for QTL's mounted on Acclamator's, correct.

Well, technically it's from the ICS. The point still stands, though.

[Mr Bean]

GT hmm might be getting somewhere, TT now we are talking

Giga-ton no way, Teraton, outside of 8472s planet killer, please gimme what your smoking


But anyway....

MINIUM Scalling figures Asumming ONLY HTLs(And only 30 of them), only firing five times and them being the EXACT same as the Acclimator's Guns pegs each of the ISDs four shield Sections as 30TT each....

Considerning the pantry less than 200 Megaton figures for ST weaponry...
Ouch

[Master of Ossus]

Evidence that this technology is able to be employed on Capital ship weapons? Your concession is accepted.

The Death Star Superlaser is special technology, you need proof if you wish to claim that it's technology is also used aboard ISDs.

Sovereign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers both mount superlasers (albeit not quite as powerful as those on the DS's, though). Concession accepted.

[Howedar]

I don't think that, but then again how do you know that TL technology has advanced any? What if the only reason the transport doesn't stand up to an ISD in combat is because the ISD has many more of them (which it does if I'm not mistaken), and better shields?

Then again it could be higher but we don't know, and people seem to be talking like 200 GT MEDIUM TL are an accepted fact, when in reality it isn't.

The Superlaser on the Death Star is technically a "compound turbolaser." Concession accepted.

Evidence that this technology is able to be employed on Capital ship weapons? Your concession is accepted.

The Death Star Superlaser is special technology, you need proof if you wish to claim that it's technology is also used aboard ISDs.

Your words were, to be specific, "how do you know that TL technology has advanced any?" I just explained how it has advanced.

You think this is irrelivent because it "can't be employed on capital ships", thus for some reason doesn't count as a turbolaser? Fine. Witness the official Eclipse and Sovereign classes, both with superlasers.

You claim the DS Superlaser is "special technology". It is not. It is stated in official literature that the superlaser is a giant "compound turbolaser". There is my proof.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Evidence that this technology is able to be employed on Capital ship weapons? Your concession is accepted.

The Death Star Superlaser is special technology, you need proof if you wish to claim that it's technology is also used aboard ISDs.

Sovereign and Eclipse class Star Destroyers both mount superlasers (albeit not quite as powerful as those on the DS's, though). Concession accepted.

That's not what I was refering to.

[Howedar]

What were you referring to, then? The garbage disposals?


Oh, and feel free to reply to the rest of the points, lest I be forced to accept a concession.

[Kamakazie Sith]

The Superlaser on the Death Star is technically a "compound turbolaser." Concession accepted.

Evidence that this technology is able to be employed on Capital ship weapons? Your concession is accepted.

The Death Star Superlaser is special technology, you need proof if you wish to claim that it's technology is also used aboard ISDs.

Your words were, to be specific, "how do you know that TL technology has advanced any?" I just explained how it has advanced.

You think this is irrelivent because it "can't be employed on capital ships", thus for some reason doesn't count as a turbolaser? Fine. Witness the official Eclipse and Sovereign classes, both with superlasers.

You claim the DS Superlaser is "special technology". It is not. It is stated in official literature that the superlaser is a giant "compound turbolaser". There is my proof.

And my question is can you prove that this compound turbo laser technology is used in the regular TL, and even if it is....can you prove that it increases the firepower of said TL?

[Howedar]

Change the wording so you can claim victory. Nice tactic, Kamikazi Darkstar.

[Kamakazie Sith]

What were you referring to, then? The garbage disposals?


Oh, and feel free to reply to the rest of the points, lest I be forced to accept a concession.

The standard TL.

[Master of Ossus]

200GT is the max canon number for QTL's mounted on Acclamator's, correct.

And could possibily be for an ISD, till proven otherwise. If you have proof that the TL on an ISD are more powerful than those mounted on Acclamators then I will accept it.

No it could not be. Here's the evidence: SW Insider's latest copy said that the firepower of an ISD is greater than that of the Acclamator. It said that the Acclamator was no match for Imperator class ships (directly). It then said that in combat the Acclamator relied on starfighters and its shields for protection. Now, if the ISD was only as powerful as the Acclamator in terms of weapon for weapon (ie. If the ISD's largest weapons were 200GT), then there would be no reason to build them. They would be about four times as massive as the Acclamator, be MUCH slower, and have no additional troops. Thus, the Acclamator would be a much better investment over all. From this we must conclude that the Acclamator's weapons are significantly less powerful than those on the ISD II.

In addition, the sheer size of many of the weapons on the ISD's indicates that their firepower should be greater than the weapons on the Acclamator. Although the Acclamator's weapons seem very large, they are really very small compared to the largest weapons on the ISD II. In fact, they are of comparable size to the Medium weapons seen firing repeatedly in RotJ! Clearly the ISD II is vastly more powerful than the Acclamator.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Change the wording so you can claim victory. Nice tactic, Kamikazi Darkstar.

Don't pull that bullshit on me Howedar. Very well the general turbo laser technology has improved, but has it improved enough to effect the standard TL armament so that their firepower will be greater?

[Howedar]

Very well. Turbolasers grew in size and changed in appearance between AOTC and ANH, while older, visually similar weapons remained. These new, larger weapons were placed in more advantageous positions, implying greater importance.

[Master of Ossus]

Change the wording so you can claim victory. Nice tactic, Kamikazi Darkstar.

Don't pull that bullshit on me Howedar. Very well the general turbo laser technology has improved, but has it improved enough to effect the standard TL armament so that their firepower will be greater?

So TL technology has improved, but its improvements mean that it has LESS firepower in weapons that are far larger? That makes no sense!

[Alyeska]

Wasn't there a ship larger than even those kilometer ones that was seen in the wormhole in "Sacrifice of Angels"? I thought that the big one in the middle was supposed to be larger than that.

Nope. We only saw the Dominion Heavy Cruiser that is roughly the same size as a GCS. Valiant DS9 was the first apperance of a larger Dominion ship (1.2km) and they used that same model for the mythical 5km long ship.

[Master of Ossus]

Wasn't there a ship larger than even those kilometer ones that was seen in the wormhole in "Sacrifice of Angels"? I thought that the big one in the middle was supposed to be larger than that.

Nope. We only saw the Dominion Heavy Cruiser that is roughly the same size as a GCS. Valiant DS9 was the first apperance of a larger Dominion ship (1.2km) and they used that same model for the mythical 5km long ship.

Mmmm. I always thought the one in the center looked bigger than that. Oh well.

[Kamakazie Sith]

200GT is the max canon number for QTL's mounted on Acclamator's, correct.

And could possibily be for an ISD, till proven otherwise. If you have proof that the TL on an ISD are more powerful than those mounted on Acclamators then I will accept it.

No it could not be. Here's the evidence: SW Insider's latest copy said that the firepower of an ISD is greater than that of the Acclamator. It said that the Acclamator was no match for Imperator class ships (directly). It then said that in combat the Acclamator relied on starfighters and its shields for protection. Now, if the ISD was only as powerful as the Acclamator in terms of weapon for weapon (ie. If the ISD's largest weapons were 200GT), then there would be no reason to build them. They would be about four times as massive as the Acclamator, be MUCH slower, and have no additional troops. Thus, the Acclamator would be a much better investment over all. From this we must conclude that the Acclamator's weapons are significantly less powerful than those on the ISD II.

In addition, the sheer size of many of the weapons on the ISD's indicates that their firepower should be greater than the weapons on the Acclamator. Although the Acclamator's weapons seem very large, they are really very small compared to the largest weapons on the ISD II. In fact, they are of comparable size to the Medium weapons seen firing repeatedly in RotJ! Clearly the ISD II is vastly more powerful than the Acclamator.

---------------------------------------------
At 752 meters long, the Republic assault ship is less than half the size of
the classic Imperial Star Destroyer. Unlike its big cousin, it can land on
planetary surfacs and sports a lightning fast Class 0.6 hyperdrive. There's
no way Republic assault ships can measure up against Star Destroyers by any military yardstick, but they were never designed for ship-to-ship combat.
Thier armaments, including twelve turbolasers and four torpedo launchers,
are best suited for orbital bombardments in support of ground troops. Each
ship also has twenty-four laser cannons for short-range defense that aren't
terribly accurate. In a space battle, Republic assault ships rely on
starfighter escorts and let thier robust sheild generators absorb stray
shots."
--------------------------------------------

I don't see any mention of the firepower being greater. Just that it can't measure up to an ISD in any military sense. This can be attributed to the facts that an ISD has more weapons, and better shields. Assuming it's weapon are more powerful is unsupported. However, as I said if you can show me something official that states ISD TL are more powerful than those on the Accalmator then I have no problem with the assumption of 200GT being medium cannons.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Change the wording so you can claim victory. Nice tactic, Kamikazi Darkstar.

Don't pull that bullshit on me Howedar. Very well the general turbo laser technology has improved, but has it improved enough to effect the standard TL armament so that their firepower will be greater?

So TL technology has improved, but its improvements mean that it has LESS firepower in weapons that are far larger? That makes no sense!

Far larger? What are you talking about? Are the TL on board an ISD far larger than those on the Accalmator?

[Howedar]

We can give you logic. Since for some reason you are unwilling to accept that, you'll just have to go fuck yourself.