Hypocrisy on Campus?

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Stormbringer
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Post by Stormbringer »

Did I say that it justifies it? I'm just trying to explain why protesters act that way, but it's ridiculous to cast broad generalizations about "the left" on that basis.
When you see protests like the WTO and G8 riots in Seatle one has to wonder if the extreme left does have more of penchant for uncontrolled public rioting. I don't have the evidence for a complete case by case basis but the question is a valid one given the high profile behaviour of some elements of the extreme left.
Yes indeed. However, for people to try and paint left-wingers as intrinsically more volatile because of situations like this is totally fallacious.
Let the record speek for itself.
What if they had enough power to arrest people for getting in their way or cutting into their profits, as certain business groups now do? Left-wing protests sometimes erupt into uncontrolled violence; this is part of the unfortunate nature of protests. Right-wing violence is more controlled, and more methodical; that does not actually make it any more ethical.
Violence is unethical no matter who starts it. And if you break the law and get arrested, such is the cost of civil disobedience. If they feel the need to break the law to make the point a person ought to expect jail time, left or right.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Stormbringer wrote:
Did I say that it justifies it? I'm just trying to explain why protesters act that way, but it's ridiculous to cast broad generalizations about "the left" on that basis.
When you see protests like the WTO and G8 riots in Seatle one has to wonder if the extreme left does have more of penchant for uncontrolled public rioting. I don't have the evidence for a complete case by case basis but the question is a valid one given the high profile behaviour of some elements of the extreme left.
So you admit you have no evidence, therefore you figure it's "valid" to base generalizations upon a few high-profile publicity cases? Okaaaayyyy .....
Yes indeed. However, for people to try and paint left-wingers as intrinsically more volatile because of situations like this is totally fallacious.
Let the record speek for itself.
Yes. Unfortunately, it appears to be silent so far, since no one has presented anything more than anecdotal "evidence".
Violence is unethical no matter who starts it.
Unless you're a government ...
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Post by Stormbringer »

So you admit you have no evidence, therefore you figure it's "valid" to base generalizations upon a few high-profile publicity cases? Okaaaayyyy .....
I don't have the breakdowns on whos started more riots. But when the biggest riots we've seen in the last few years, and much of the lower profile incidents at protests, have all be tied to the extreme left it's a fair question to ask.
Yes. Unfortunately, it appears to be silent so far, since no one has presented anything more than anecdotal "evidence".
Actually, there's more evidence presented in favor than against so far.
Unless you're a government ...
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Post by victorhadin »

Johonebesus wrote:Some college students could be almost violent in their repression of anything that even seems like it could be politically incorrect. Make the wrong joke at the wrong time, and you were doomed. Disagree with the "correct" viewpoint, and instead of a rational debate, you would be shouted at and drowned out. Of course, the fact that conservative arguments usually came down to emotional and religious appeals didn't help, but the liberals could at least have tried to rationally debate.
You lived with a different sort of student than I. I regularly recieved such little gems as:

"Yes! Banzai is on! It's time for... THE CRAZY CHAN!"

"It's not that I don't like blacks or asians. I just think they're fucking ugly." (Laughs.)

"Now, now lads. There is a time and a place for racism."

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I don't think I have ever actually met a politically-correct student before. Maybe it's an American thing.

Mind, most of them are left-wing as hell, but that just makes for more amusing rows in the pub. :)
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Post by Nathan F »

Kynes wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:I thought I could throw in a column by Walter Williams somewhat related to the subject: Link
The opposite of diversity is uniformity or identity. For the bulk of universities and colleges, diversity means race quotas, sex quotas and programs to insure that representative forms of sexual deviancy become an accepted norm.
Stick that heterosexist propaganda up your ass. I cannot believe there are actually semi-literate people out there who believe this garbage. It's like when they teach monkeys to do sign language.
Big words for a newbie. I guess you have never heard of 'reverse racism'? You know, where someone can't get into college, even though they are perfectly qualified, because the quotas (Be they for race or sex) haven't been filled?
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Post by Nathan F »

Hamel wrote:The worst part of these accusations: they spin and exaggerate to give you the impression that these events happen all across America's colleges and universities. They KNOW that isn't the case.
It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.
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Post by Nathan F »

Darth Wong wrote: So you admit you have no evidence, therefore you figure it's "valid" to base generalizations upon a few high-profile publicity cases? Okaaaayyyy .....
Those few high profile cases are evidence, so, why don't you come up with evidence that shows that this hasn't happened on a smaller scale in more schools? (If you already have, and I have missed it, forgive me and disregard)
Violence is unethical no matter who starts it.
Unless you're a government ...
Strawman.
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Post by Kynes »

Nathan F wrote:
Kynes wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:I thought I could throw in a column by Walter Williams somewhat related to the subject: Link
Stick that heterosexist propaganda up your ass. I cannot believe there are actually semi-literate people out there who believe this garbage. It's like when they teach monkeys to do sign language.
Big words for a newbie. I guess you have never heard of 'reverse racism'? You know, where someone can't get into college, even though they are perfectly qualified, because the quotas (Be they for race or sex) haven't been filled?
Wow, you are shockingly uninformed. Quotas were ruled unconstitutional back in the 1970's (the Bakke decision) and ever since then they've been a favorite scarecrow of underinformed paleo-cons like yourself.

Moreover, I was commenting on your bizarre "recognized forms of sexual deviancy" tripe. As if homosexuality is somehow "deviant" from the "correct" way to love and feel.

But thanks for the laugh. Yep, I sure am new to this whole forum thing!
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Post by MKSheppard »

Kynes wrote: Wow, you are shockingly uninformed. Quotas were ruled unconstitutional back in the 1970's (the Bakke decision) and ever since then they've been a favorite scarecrow of underinformed paleo-cons like yourself.
Uh kynes, if it was outlawed in the 1970s, then why do we have them now?

Interested minds would like to know. :D
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Post by Kynes »

MKSheppard wrote: Uh kynes, if it was outlawed in the 1970s, then why do we have them now?

Interested minds would like to know. :D
We don't. Do some research before asking me stupid questions.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Kynes wrote: We don't. Do some research before asking me stupid questions.
If we don't have them now, then why did we just have a supreme court
decision on Affirmative Action, which is really just a quota program?
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by Iceberg »

MKSheppard wrote:
Kynes wrote: We don't. Do some research before asking me stupid questions.
If we don't have them now, then why did we just have a supreme court
decision on Affirmative Action, which is really just a quota program?
The Supreme Court just ruled that AA wasn't a "quota program," dumbass.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Iceberg wrote: The Supreme Court just ruled that AA wasn't a "quota program," dumbass.
Then what do you call giving 20 bonus points to people of certain ethnicities
irregardless of how well they do on the standardized entrance tests?
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by theski »

Its called "Leveling the Playing Field" :roll:
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Post by MKSheppard »

theski wrote:Its called "Leveling the Playing Field" :roll:
That's quite a level, considering a perfect score on said aptitude test is
12. So in effect, someone who was born black, could take the test, fail
miserably, and still come out of it with a score much better than that
of someone who aced the test.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by Iceberg »

That's not my problem, is it? It's your problem that the Supreme Court decided that the supposed "quota" system of UMich wasn't, or that it did not, in fact, discriminate unconstitutionally.

Try fishing a different hole, bucko. This one's played out.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Iceberg wrote:That's not my problem, is it? It's your problem that the Supreme Court decided that the supposed "quota" system of UMich wasn't, or that it did not, in fact, discriminate unconstitutionally.

Try fishing a different hole, bucko. This one's played out.
Actually, they did decide the extra points for minorities was uncostitutional discrimination.
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Post by Hamel »

Nathan F wrote:
Hamel wrote:The worst part of these accusations: they spin and exaggerate to give you the impression that these events happen all across America's colleges and universities. They KNOW that isn't the case.
It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.
It would be swell if you oppressed rightwingers could back up these wild claims :lol:
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
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Post by Nathan F »

Kynes wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
Kynes wrote: Stick that heterosexist propaganda up your ass. I cannot believe there are actually semi-literate people out there who believe this garbage. It's like when they teach monkeys to do sign language.
Big words for a newbie. I guess you have never heard of 'reverse racism'? You know, where someone can't get into college, even though they are perfectly qualified, because the quotas (Be they for race or sex) haven't been filled?
Wow, you are shockingly uninformed. Quotas were ruled unconstitutional back in the 1970's (the Bakke decision) and ever since then they've been a favorite scarecrow of underinformed paleo-cons like yourself.

Moreover, I was commenting on your bizarre "recognized forms of sexual deviancy" tripe. As if homosexuality is somehow "deviant" from the "correct" way to love and feel.

But thanks for the laugh. Yep, I sure am new to this whole forum thing!
Like I said, big words for a newbie. I don't guess you have ever filled out a college application, have you? Or wondered why you couldn't get a scholarship because you weren't a minority? So just STFU and go get out of your little isolation chamber that you apparently live in.
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Post by Nathan F »

Hamel wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
Hamel wrote:The worst part of these accusations: they spin and exaggerate to give you the impression that these events happen all across America's colleges and universities. They KNOW that isn't the case.
It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.
It would be swell if you oppressed rightwingers could back up these wild claims :lol:
Ah, the ignorance. Evidence has been given towards it happening, now show me evidence to how it ISN'T happening.
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Post by Hamel »

Ah, the ignorance. Evidence has been given towards it happening, now show me evidence to how it ISN'T happening.
Burden of proof fallacy, though I will point out that this stuff doesn't happen at Sinclair Community College, University of Dayton, and OSU to my knowledge.

The evidence you have provided is deeply flawed, in any case. The author you quoted presented no sources at all. Furthermore, are we to feel sorry for the idiot known as Dan Flynn? This incident was clearly a case of a justified reaction to rile-em-up bullshit. Why the Left Hates America? Come on. Then we have a look at Walter Williams' leap in logic:
So what does all this mean? It means your son or daughter will be taught that the Founders of United States were racists and sexists; capitalism is a tool used to oppress women and minorities; literature and philosophy written by "dead white men" is a tool of exploitation, one person's vision of reality is just as valid as another's, one set of cultural values (maybe the Taliban's) is just as good as another, poverty is caused by rich people, and America is destroying the planet.
That's a lot of Freeper cliches in one paragraph. So, vastly liberal faculty = antiamerican hatemongering? Leap in logic defined. If these institutions are so bad, why are they churning out some of the brightest graduates in the world? And even more important, why are they not pumping out Marxists en masse?

Remember, your job to prove that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick across the country. Not my job to prove it isn't occuring.
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Post by Darth Wong »

Nathan F wrote:Like I said, big words for a newbie.
Take your sanctimonious airs of superiority and shove 'em up your ass, Nathan. The fact that Kynes has a low post count does not mean jack shit, and I won't have people tying points in arguments to their seniority on the board. Understand?
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Post by Nathan F »

Darth Wong wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Like I said, big words for a newbie.
Take your sanctimonious airs of superiority and shove 'em up your ass, Nathan. The fact that Kynes has a low post count does not mean jack shit, and I won't have people tying points in arguments to their seniority on the board. Understand?
You're right, Mike, this was no place for that remark I made. I got on the forum when I was pretty pissed at something else outside of here, and made that brash statement. However, that is no excuse for that statement

Kynes: I would like to apologize for implying that I was superiour because of longevity on the board... :(
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Post by Nathan F »

Hamel wrote:*snip*
It isn't a burden of proof if examples are given, then you say that those are invalid, and I ask for something countering those examples.
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Post by Hamel »

Nathan F wrote:
Hamel wrote:*snip*
It isn't a burden of proof if examples are given, then you say that those are invalid, and I ask for something countering those examples.
You wrote:It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.
Maybe you should take back your statement, since you won't back it up. I can't blame you for not wanting to back it up, since you know it's complete bullshit.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
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