hyperdrive what if

[Enforcer Talen]

what if the blue prints for a working hyperdrive came into the hands of quark? how would this affect deep space nine and the star trek powers, and the imperial war sometime later?

[Alyeska]

what if the blue prints for a working hyperdrive came into the hands of quark? how would this affect deep space nine and the star trek powers, and the imperial war sometime later?

Much as Quark likes money, he seems to have grown somewhat fond of the Federation. He would likely threaten to sell it to the highest bidder just to scare the Federation into coughing up as much money as possible. With the strategic advantages Hyper Drive would allow, I suspect the Federation would pay a significantly large sum of money to get their hands on it. However it would not take very much time at all for foreign inteligence services to sneak the plans out of the Federation, and in no more then 15 years every major power and most of the medium level ones will have working designs of Hyper Drive.

[Patrick Degan]

what if the blue prints for a working hyperdrive came into the hands of quark? how would this affect deep space nine and the star trek powers, and the imperial war sometime later?

That would be roughly akin to handing Leonardo DaVinci the working blueprints to a nuclear reactor. Unless you can understand the basic principles behind the device and have the technological base for duplicating it, it wouldn't matter how many blueprints you were given to the device.

Federation R&D never managed to come up with a working transwarp drive after eighty years of effort, and efforts to adapt the Borg slipstream drive to Voyager's systems came up a cropper because the technologies were incompatable with one another.

Furthermore, Federation science is hamstrung by its centralised science bureaucracy (rather like the planet Krypton), and advances cannot proceed in an atmosphere in which free experiment and inquiry is discouraged if not actively suppressed.

Three strikes. The Federation's out.

[Mr Bean]

Acutal Four, your forgetting the massive power generation needed for that burst into Hyperspace and Fith the Interal Compesators to survie the burst

[Master of Ossus]

It would be too difficult for the Federation scientists to work out, even with fairly detailed blueprints. It's kind of like learning to run before you can walk. They simply do not have the technology to duplicate the drive, although they would almost certainly pay Quark handsomely for it if he could explain what it did.

[paladin]

I think Federation science would be up to understanding the theory behind the hyperdrive. After all, the Federation several theories for similiar systems. However creating a working prototype is beyond the Federation capabilities. The Federation has been working on transwarp, slipstream, and coaxial warp drive and none of the systems has worked.

[Alyeska]

Power would not be a great issue unless you are arguing that the Milineum Falcon or other light transports provide more power then the any ST race can muster. If anything they can power the hyperdrive to a lesser degree making it slower, but still faster then Warp. Thanks to Slipstream we know its possible to power faster FTL drives with similar power levels.

[Howedar]

Insufficient data across the board.

[Master of Ossus]

Thanks to Slipstream we know its possible to power faster FTL drives with similar power levels.

I agree that power would not be the largest barrier between ST and hyperdrives, but I don't agree with your reasoning on the second part of your post. Just because slipstreams use similar power as compared with warp drive does not necessarily hold true for hyperdrives. The two are radically different systems, wherin lies the most serious problem for the Trekkies who believe in instant assimilation of technology (not the more reasonable ones who have been posting so far on this thread). Crafting ST ships with hyperdrives would require a complete overhaul of their ships, removing things like warp cores and engines which had previously been integral to the ship's design. This would be impossible without considerable time and effort spent on the subject, and would be impossible during the kind of war most people envision on this forum.

[Alyeska]

Thanks to Slipstream we know its possible to power faster FTL drives with similar power levels.

I agree that power would not be the largest barrier between ST and hyperdrives, but I don't agree with your reasoning on the second part of your post. Just because slipstreams use similar power as compared with warp drive does not necessarily hold true for hyperdrives. The two are radically different systems, wherin lies the most serious problem for the Trekkies who believe in instant assimilation of technology (not the more reasonable ones who have been posting so far on this thread). Crafting ST ships with hyperdrives would require a complete overhaul of their ships, removing things like warp cores and engines which had previously been integral to the ship's design. This would be impossible without considerable time and effort spent on the subject, and would be impossible during the kind of war most people envision on this forum.

Given that ST ships are optimized for Warp travel, of this I have no doubt. That is a clear reason why Slipstream did not work near as well as advertised. The Federation or any other power would have to do a lot of theoretical research as well as a lot of egineering testing. They would probably take the blue-prints for the drive and run a whole shit load of computer simulations and even holodeck virtual reality tests on the design. But I think given 15 years of work both the Federation and those who spy on it could field Hyper Drive capable ships. Not frankenstien ships, but possibly hybrid prototypes.

[Ghost Rider]

Given that they cannot enhance their drive even with 80 years beyond the Warp bubble...you might as well be giving us a Hyperdrive given the components needed as well the completely alien tech involved.

Trek scientists have trouble with slightly foriegn devices let alone something completely alien(or why haven't they elimanated frequencies within their shields and Phasers when this is shown as the primary the Borg can adapt so readily)

[Alyeska]

Given that they cannot enhance their drive even with 80 years beyond the Warp bubble...you might as well be giving us a Hyperdrive given the components needed as well the completely alien tech involved.

Trek scientists have trouble with slightly foriegn devices let alone something completely alien(or why haven't they elimanated frequencies within their shields and Phasers when this is shown as the primary the Borg can adapt so readily)

Torpedoes which are kinetic and Anti-mater weapons can be adapted to. A ramming of a cube isn't even expected to phase it. Frequencies aren't the biggest issue when dealing with the Borg.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Even if they had and understood a hyperdrive motivator, how would they get it on a ship? Understanding it would take years of observations, experiments, and research, and they won't have years to do that if they're being invaded by the GE.

[Ghost Rider]

Oh please...when simple KE object SHRED a borg...they still rely upon frequency specfic items...

Literally if the Borg are such a gigantic threat, they don't change to KE items but instead rely upon technobabble and modulating phasers?

I mean please...Frequency has gotten their assed handed to them but seeing what specfic frequency a shield holds(the Duross sisters...) and there is no changes even with this blantant show of stupidity. Let alone..."we must change our frequency for two shots, even though a knife rips through them" Borg

[Alyeska]

Oh please...when simple KE object SHRED a borg...they still rely upon frequency specfic items...

Literally if the Borg are such a gigantic threat, they don't change to KE items but instead rely upon technobabble and modulating phasers?

I mean please...Frequency has gotten their assed handed to them but seeing what specfic frequency a shield holds(the Duross sisters...) and there is no changes even with this blantant show of stupidity. Let alone..."we must change our frequency for two shots, even though a knife rips through them" Borg

KE has only been shown to work against Drones. We have plenty of evidence of the Borg using KE shielding AWAY from their Drones (BOBW, First Contact).

[Cpt_Frank]

Another problem is that they will have to change their whole shipbuilding philosophy, ie no more crazy transition of weight into subspace etc.

[Doomriser]

Power would not be a great issue unless you are arguing that the Milineum Falcon or other light transports provide more power then the any ST race can muster.

I am. Even the smallest starfighter has KT-level firepower alone. That's more power than the largest Federation starship can output.

[Ghost Rider]

KE has only been shown to work against Drones. We have plenty of evidence of the Borg using KE shielding AWAY from their Drones (BOBW, First Contact).

okay...and where in Best of Both Worlds was this beautiful KE shielding on other than drones working when the Shuttle effortlessly went through the Borg Shield...

And before you go the Borg Queen stopped Data how do we know she didn't just activate the perimeter forcefield that Trek has so often.

Seriously where has it been shown that the Borg have definitve KE...or was the shredding 8472 doing to them by their CLAWS just some happenstance fluke?

[Alyeska]

Power would not be a great issue unless you are arguing that the Milineum Falcon or other light transports provide more power then the any ST race can muster.

I am. Even the smallest starfighter has KT-level firepower alone. That's more power than the largest Federation starship can output.

I would like to see something beyond a single example that proves Trek is sub KT level.

[Alyeska]

KE has only been shown to work against Drones. We have plenty of evidence of the Borg using KE shielding AWAY from their Drones (BOBW, First Contact).

okay...and where in Best of Both Worlds was this beautiful KE shielding on other than drones working when the Shuttle effortlessly went through the Borg Shield...

And before you go the Borg Queen stopped Data how do we know she didn't just activate the perimeter forcefield that Trek has so often.

Seriously where has it been shown that the Borg have definitve KE...or was the shredding 8472 doing to them by their CLAWS just some happenstance fluke?

I guess you forgot the KE shield that held back Worf from getting at Picard in BOBW PT-1. I guess you didn't know about the KE shields used within the borg ships in Voyager. And don't put words in my mouth either. I never claimed the Drones had KE shielding, but that the ships were capable of stopping it.

[Darth Wong]

Power would not be a great issue unless you are arguing that the Milineum Falcon or other light transports provide more power then the any ST race can muster.

I am. Even the smallest starfighter has KT-level firepower alone. That's more power than the largest Federation starship can output.

I would like to see something beyond a single example that proves Trek is sub KT level.

People may be overstating the point in this case (my own numbers suggest max firepower in the high kT or low MT range for their most powerful torps), but as far as hyperdrive goes, the power limitations are still severe. A 700m long Fed ship might be able to outpower a 15m long fighter, but it will also require a helluva lot more power to push into hyperspace. It is the ratio of power to size that will limit the Feddies; if they can't match SW's ratio, they may not be able to deploy a hyperdrive even if they understand and are capable of deploying the technology (which is by no means guaranteed).

[Howedar]

Power would not be a great issue unless you are arguing that the Milineum Falcon or other light transports provide more power then the any ST race can muster.

I am. Even the smallest starfighter has KT-level firepower alone. That's more power than the largest Federation starship can output.

Try watching things with your eyes instead of your ass.

[Alyeska]

I am. Even the smallest starfighter has KT-level firepower alone. That's more power than the largest Federation starship can output.

I would like to see something beyond a single example that proves Trek is sub KT level.

People may be overstating the point in this case (my own numbers suggest max firepower in the high kT or low MT range for their most powerful torps), but as far as hyperdrive goes, the power limitations are still severe. A 700m long Fed ship might be able to outpower a 15m long fighter, but it will also require a helluva lot more power to push into hyperspace. It is the ratio of power to size that will limit the Feddies; if they can't match SW's ratio, they may not be able to deploy a hyperdrive even if they understand and are capable of deploying the technology (which is by no means guaranteed).

Just wondering, what calcs do you use to come to your numbers?

[Darth Wong]

Just wondering, what calcs do you use to come to your numbers?

I try to be generous (I know, a lot of Trekkies insist that I'm an ultra-extreme "warsie" who pushes all Trek figures down as far as they'll go, but that's simply not true), and I always look for incidents involving inert objects as an ideal case. For "Pegasus", we come up with figures in the low MT range. For "Deja Q", we come up with 5-10 MT/s for the warp core at max power, which in turn indicates the power of the anti-Borg weapon developed in "Best of Both Worlds".

Both of these incidents involve physically simple, inert objects. I consider them useful for that reason. There are many, many incidents which indicate FAR, FAR lower figures (particularly ST:I, but there are others, particularly with respect to hits on unshielded vessels), but as I said, while some may snort with disbelief at this statement, I do try to be generous.

[Ghost Rider]

One thing read it again before screaming I put words in your mouth...I say that 8472 shredding Borg drones is still an example that they either have(as you showed) selective KE(only around Picard but NOT THE SHIP?!)

Once again, they rarely show any KE other than what the story dictates(or the shuttle just waltzing into the Borg Superstructure was a complete fluke and they forgot to turn the thing on)

Which would point out a huge flaw that they can be distract by a pointless lightshow.