Hypocrisy on Campus?

[Nathan F]

*snip*

It isn't a burden of proof if examples are given, then you say that those are invalid, and I ask for something countering those examples.

It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.

Maybe you should take back your statement, since you won't back it up. I can't blame you for not wanting to back it up, since you know it's complete bullshit.

WTF Hamel? Smi posted an article that had the results of an accepted poll in it SHOWING the overwhelming difference between left and right on campuses. That, frankly, is all the backup needed, seeing as though it prooves my point that the right and moderate conservatives are outnumbered overwhelmingly on most college campuses, which have, historically, been hotbeds of liberal, left, and ultra-left wing politics and semantics. Do you disagree?

[Hamel]

WTF Hamel? Smi posted an article that had the results of an accepted poll in it SHOWING the overwhelming difference between left and right on campuses. That, frankly, is all the backup needed, seeing as though it prooves my point that the right and moderate conservatives are outnumbered overwhelmingly on most college campuses, which have, historically, been hotbeds of liberal, left, and ultra-left wing politics and semantics. Do you disagree?

You fucking dumbass, I already addressed the %ages of liberal faculty members in these ivy leaguers:

That's a lot of Freeper cliches in one paragraph. So, vastly liberal faculty = antiamerican hatemongering? Leap in logic defined. If these institutions are so bad, why are they churning out some of the brightest graduates in the world? And even more important, why are they not pumping out Marxists en masse?

Remember, your job to prove that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick across the country. Not my job to prove it isn't occuring.

Upon my comment here...

The worst part of these accusations: they spin and exaggerate to give you the impression that these events happen all across America's colleges and universities. They KNOW that isn't the case.

...you replied:

It happens at alot of them, though. In fact, I would go so far to say that it happens at a majority of colleges.

So you are saying that not only are conservatives getting jacked at a lot of unis, you are saying that it happens at a majority of these institutions. This claim has not been backed up by you or both articles posted in the thread.

The first article points out a few freak incidents (no sources for verification btw) at least one of which we KNOW resulted from an asshole's inflamatory bullshit about leftists hating America. The second article, as I pointed out, is a vast leap in logic. Because the vast majority of ivy league faculty is liberal, students are being indoctrinated with leftist/anti-american ideaology? Does the fucking idiot who authored that hit piece actually think before he types? If the situation is so dire as he claims, why are these same schools pumping out quality graduates? There is no mass indoctrination here.

Hey, since economics departments are full of libertarian idealogues who want to do away with child labor laws, should I write chicken-little hit-pieces to stir the pot?

[Joe]

Hey, since economics departments are full of libertarian idealogues who want to do away with child labor laws, should I write chicken-little hit-pieces to stir the pot?

Bullshit. Prove this assertion.

[Hamel]

Hey, since economics departments are full of libertarian idealogues who want to do away with child labor laws, should I write chicken-little hit-pieces to stir the pot?

Bullshit. Prove this assertion.

Sorry, my inner conservative took over for a bit. My economics dept. was indeed full of people who shared that thought, but I painted with a broad brush to make myself look like a victim.

[Nathan F]

*argh, damn the lack of an edit button:*
You wanted evidence? Well, here ya go, and plenty more where that came from.

Evidence: (Not to say some aren't unbiased, but, if you see one that is completely wrong, feel free to pick it apart, it's not my writing)

http://www.cir-usa.org/update.html#newsys

http://www.empoweramerica.org/stories/storyReader$182 <- Good one.

http://www.yaf.org/pres/pres-m.html

http://www.collegeguide.org/choosing/co ... alvin.html <- Paragraph 7.

http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... 5a8c71c942

http://www.politicallyright.com/article4.htm

http://www.berry.edu/stulife/carrier/ba ... tter1.html

http://www.nbc17.com/education/2322388/detail.html


Oh, yeah, should I talk about the World Civ class that I have where the only reading outside of textbooks is something on the 'evil American empire'?

[Nathan F]

That's a lot of Freeper cliches in one paragraph. So, vastly liberal faculty = antiamerican hatemongering? Leap in logic defined. If these institutions are so bad, why are they churning out some of the brightest graduates in the world? And even more important, why are they not pumping out Marxists en masse?

Remember, your job to prove that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick across the country. Not my job to prove it isn't occuring.

Upon my comment here...

Pending a reply to the evidence I submitted a minute ago, all I have to say is that you are jumping around an awful lot here. You stated yourself that I am trying to say that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick, yet construed that to mean that I am saying that 'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering'. I stated the reply to what YOU YOURSELF SAID I was trying to do. Get your crap straight.

[Hamel]

Finally offering something of substance. Hopefully.

http://www.cir-usa.org/update.html#newsys

Race and gender preferences, nothing about mistreatment of conservatives

http://www.empoweramerica.org/stories/storyReader$182 <- Good one.

Attacking the PC strawman, with no sources or documentation on the case he presents.

http://www.yaf.org/pres/pres-m.html

Read to the part where the dad smacked his kid for saying "damn" at the dinner table then stopped in disgust. Moralising bullshit this is, please paste the relevant part.

http://www.collegeguide.org/choosing/co ... alvin.html <- Paragraph 7.

People making claims without backing them up with documentation and facts. No wonder they're calling people socialist; the school is trying to maintain ties to Christian churches.

http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... 5a8c71c942

Both sides writing hateful messages. The faculty says they're going to take care of the issue. Problem?

http://www.politicallyright.com/article4.htm

Okay, the first meaningful article. Don't know why the questions are being criticised. No tricks being pulled there. The article does not point out one falsehood from the lecturer. Does she lie about one thing? Just one? Some of it sounds like bullshit, some of it doesn't.

In any case, the lecturer should be sticking to apolitical material, so you might have your first legit example.

http://www.berry.edu/stulife/carrier/ba ... tter1.html

Nothing beyond what I have addressed before

http://www.nbc17.com/education/2322388/detail.html

One book with liberal and supposedly anticapitalist views. Nothing on other material presented to the students. Furthermore, it appears that this book is only presented as the author's opinion, and not chiseled-in-stone fact.

Oh, yeah, should I talk about the World Civ class that I have where the only reading outside of textbooks is something on the 'evil American empire'?

Oh, the horror of something contradicting the jingoist drivel you probably read in your formative years

[Shiva Archon]

I'm an exec board member of the College Republicans at Northwestern, and I can't really say we've been screwed over much. Yeah, our posters promoting our speakers get torn down in the liberal side of campus, and the College Dems get appropriated three times as much money as us for speakers and campaigning. But there were several pro-war "demonstrations" on campus, and none were violently put down by the Ultra-Lefties (and we have a few of them).

We're a pretty balanced school relative to most campuses, though, so I don't fear for my life telling people my affiliation with CR. Hell, most of the time I get a high five.

[Hamel]

Don't know how my comment got stuck in that top quotebox, but whatevar

[Hamel]

Pending a reply to the evidence I submitted a minute ago, all I have to say is that you are jumping around an awful lot here. You stated yourself that I am trying to say that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick, yet construed that to mean that I am saying that 'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering'. I stated the reply to what YOU YOURSELF SAID I was trying to do. Get your crap straight.

'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering' obviously concerns the article that Smi posted. There is nothing crooked, read again.

[Nathan F]

Pending a reply to the evidence I submitted a minute ago, all I have to say is that you are jumping around an awful lot here. You stated yourself that I am trying to say that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick, yet construed that to mean that I am saying that 'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering'. I stated the reply to what YOU YOURSELF SAID I was trying to do. Get your crap straight.

'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering' obviously concerns the article that Smi posted. There is nothing crooked, read again.

I WAS USING THE NUMBERS STATED IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hamel]

Pending a reply to the evidence I submitted a minute ago, all I have to say is that you are jumping around an awful lot here. You stated yourself that I am trying to say that conservative students and faculty are getting the short end of the stick, yet construed that to mean that I am saying that 'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering'. I stated the reply to what YOU YOURSELF SAID I was trying to do. Get your crap straight.

'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering' obviously concerns the article that Smi posted. There is nothing crooked, read again.

I WAS USING THE NUMBERS STATED IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No fucking shit, man. Those numbers only show liberals outnumbering conservatives, not conservatives getting bad treatment.

[Nathan F]

Finally offering something of substance. Hopefully.

http://www.cir-usa.org/update.html#newsys

Race and gender preferences, nothing about mistreatment of conservatives

Eh, it had to do with the previous debates, thought I would toss it in there.

http://www.empoweramerica.org/stories/storyReader$182 <- Good one.

Attacking the PC strawman, with no sources or documentation on the case he presents.

You wanted examples, that told of an example. You can have selective reading if you want to.

http://www.yaf.org/pres/pres-m.html

Read to the part where the dad smacked his kid for saying "damn" at the dinner table then stopped in disgust. Moralising bullshit this is, please paste the relevant part.

OK:

Recall with me, if you will, the one charge against Newt Gingrich that the Democratic House Members refused to abandon: It was that Newt Gingrich used his resources to teach a course aimed at college students. To the media, it is wrong for Gingrich to compete on the college campus by teaching students at Kennesaw State College and Reinhardt College about conservative ideas.

Funny, all I have heard was praise for Al Gore teaching at Middle Tennessee State...

Plus more, read the damn article before you try to weakly attack it.

http://www.collegeguide.org/choosing/co ... alvin.html <- Paragraph 7.

People making claims without backing them up with documentation and facts. No wonder they're calling people socialist; the school is trying to maintain ties to Christian churches.

It was a first person quote. Of course, I am sure you knew that already, but weren't aware that ALL evidence eventually boils down to first person quotes.

http://www.bgnews.com/vnews/display.v/A ... 5a8c71c942

Both sides writing hateful messages. The faculty says they're going to take care of the issue. Problem?

Again, your selective reading comes into play. If neither the College Republicans nor the College Democrats wrote the message, who did? Everything points to someone trying to make the CR's look bad.

http://www.politicallyright.com/article4.htm

Okay, the first meaningful article. Don't know why the questions are being criticised. No tricks being pulled there. The article does not point out one falsehood from the lecturer. Does she lie about one thing? Just one? Some of it sounds like bullshit, some of it doesn't.

In any case, the lecturer should be sticking to apolitical material, so you might have your first legit example.

OK, then, what makes that different than the case where the teacher in Maine was using

http://www.berry.edu/stulife/carrier/ba ... tter1.html

Nothing beyond what I have addressed before

Don't skirt the issue, if you have a problem with it, tell what it is.

http://www.nbc17.com/education/2322388/detail.html

One book with liberal and supposedly anticapitalist views. Nothing on other material presented to the students. Furthermore, it appears that this book is only presented as the author's opinion, and not chiseled-in-stone fact.

Damn, how thick headed are you? That is quite the inadequate retort. So what if it is presented as the author's opinion? It is still required reading. Hell, it all comes down to 'authors opinion' anyways, (sans maybe an engineering or mathematics book). Again, you asked for evidence, you can't strike down legitimate evidence as irrelevent because you don't like it.

Oh, yeah, should I talk about the World Civ class that I have where the only reading outside of textbooks is something on the 'evil American empire'?

Oh, the horror of something contradicting the jingoist drivel you probably read in your formative years

Hmm, I guess it goes right along with the communist drivel you probably read along in your formative years.

You asked for evidence, I gave you evidence, and you don't like that evidence, so you just strike it as irrelevent, even though it is quite adequate. Just STFU until you can come up with adequate evidence against what I am saying and that goes against the evidence I have submitted.

[Nathan F]

'liberal faculty = anti-american hatemongering' obviously concerns the article that Smi posted. There is nothing crooked, read again.

I WAS USING THE NUMBERS STATED IN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No fucking shit, man. Those numbers only show liberals outnumbering conservatives, not conservatives getting bad treatment.

Liberals outnumbering conservatives no more than 95-1, in some cases! Jeeze, man, you can't be so idiotic to think that someone is going to get a fairly unbiased education in that sort of environment.

[RedImperator]

How conservatives are treated really varies from school to school. We ran a full blown neo-con newspaper (I was the token libertarian) and didn't get too much shit (we had issues stolen once in a while, but those were individuals, not the university). Other schools, conservative newspaper publishers came within a hair's breadth of disciplinary hearings for "hate speech".

I DID notice more individual leftists would act like assholes (at a conference at U. Penn once, some dickweed burst into the room shouting "U. Penn doesn't support hate speech!" in a meeting about typesetting or some damn thing), but I would attribute that more to being in a majority and feeling like you can get away with shit because of it. I'm sure if the numbers were reversed, there would be conservatives doing the same thing. Most of the liberals I knew, even that hardcore types, were decent people who were willing to listen to the other side.