Saudis consider nuclear weapons

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-18 10:56am

Good and bad.

Saudis consider nuclear weapons
By Ewen MacAskill in London and Ian Traynor in Vienna
September 19, 2003

Saudi Arabia has embarked on a strategic review that includes acquiring nuclear weapons, in response to the upheaval in the Middle East.

This new threat of proliferation in one of the most dangerous regions of the world comes on top of a crisis over Iran's alleged nuclear program.

A strategy paper being considered at the highest levels in Riyadh sets out three options:

To acquire a nuclear capability as a deterrent.

To maintain or enter into an alliance with an existing nuclear power that would offer protection.

To try to reach a regional agreement on a nuclear-free Middle East.

Until now, the assumption in Washington was that Saudi Arabia was content to remain under the US nuclear umbrella. But the relationship between the two countries has steadily worsened since the September 11 attacks: 15 of the 19 terrorists were Saudi.

It is not known if Saudi Arabia has decided on any of the three options, but that it is prepared to contemplate the nuclear choice is a worrying development.

United Nations officials and nuclear arms analysts said the Saudi review reflected profound insecurities generated by the volatility in the Middle East, Riyadh's estrangement from Washington and the weakening of its reliance on the US nuclear umbrella.

They pointed to Saudi worries about an Iranian program and to the absence of any international pressure on Israel, which has an estimated 200 nuclear devices.

JOINING THE CLUB
• Nuclear powers: United States, Russia, China, France and Britain
• Known to have some weapons: Israel, India and Pakistan. South Africa relinquished its bomb in the 1990's
• Thought to be pursuing nuclear capability: North Korea, Iraq[WTF? - BS], Iran, Japan has the fissile material and know how to develop a nuclear bomb
• Thought to have ambitions: Brazil, Argentina, Libya and Algeria

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Our antennae are up," said a UN official who watches worldwide nuclear proliferation efforts. "The international community can rest assured we do keep track of such events if they go beyond talk."

Saudi Arabia does not regard Iran, a past adversary with which Riyadh has restored relations, as a direct threat. But it is unnerved by the possibility of Iran and Israel having nuclear weapons.

Riyadh is also paranoid about a string of apparent leaks in American newspapers from the US Administration that are critical of Saudi Arabia.

David Albright, director of the Washington think tank Institute for Science and International Security, said he doubted the Saudis would try to build a nuclear bomb, but prefer to try to buy a nuclear warhead. They would be the first nuclear power to have bought rather than built the bomb.

"There has always been worries that the Saudis would go down this path if provoked," Mr Albright said. "There is growing US hostility which could lead to the removal of the US umbrella and will the Saudis be intimidated by Iran? They've got to be nervous."

UN officials said there have been rumours for 20 years that the Saudis wanted to pay Pakistan to do the research and development on nuclear weapons.

In 1988 Saudi Arabia bought from China intermediate-range missiles capable of reaching any part of the Middle East with a nuclear warhead.

Four years ago, Saudi Arabia sent a military team to Pakistan to tour its secret nuclear facilities and to be briefed by Abdul Qader Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb.

Arab countries on Wednesday urged the International Atomic Energy Authority, the UN nuclear watchdog, to get tough with Israel to let inspectors assess its nuclear program in line with similar pressure on Iran.

Oman's ambassador to the IAEA, Salim al-Riyami, speaking on behalf of the Arab League, which represents Arab states, said: "I think it's time to deal with this issue more substantively than before."

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-18 12:00pm

Ugg, yet another fundie whackjob state with nukes.

Great.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-09-18 12:25pm

Someone will sneeze one day and that'll be the end of the Middle-east as we know it. All that oil and a nuclear war would go a long way to fucking up any chances of peace and civilisation there.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-09-18 12:39pm

This may not be so bad. The fear from nuclear weapons may force the region to grow up, and negotiate a couple of "outstanding issues". Arabs are emotional, but they aren't stupid.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-18 01:10pm

BoredShirtless wrote:Arabs are emotional, but they aren't stupid.

(x100 LOLs removed for brevity)

Thanks for the laugh in the face of that hurricaine

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-09-18 01:31pm

MKSheppard wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:Arabs are emotional, but they aren't stupid.

(x100 LOLs removed for brevity)

Thanks for the laugh in the face of that hurricaine

That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-18 01:36pm

3rd Impact wrote:That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.

Too bad none of them are running the countries over there.

The Middle East is riddled with ethnic and religious grudges, half stable leaders, terrorists, and all around shitheads. It's quite possibly the most insane region on Earth.

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-09-18 01:39pm

Stormbringer wrote:
3rd Impact wrote:That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.
Too bad none of them are running the countries over there.

The Middle East is riddled with ethnic and religious grudges, half stable leaders, terrorists, and all around shitheads. It's quite possibly the most insane region on Earth.

Yeah, you've got a point. And yes, Saudi Arabia would be a better place if Mr Ackbar from the chippy was running it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-18 01:39pm

3rd Impact wrote: That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.

The Pakistanis managed to make a GUN type nuclear device
fizzle. No one believed it possible until the Paks did it

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-18 01:46pm

MKSheppard wrote:
3rd Impact wrote: That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.
The Pakistanis managed to make a GUN type nuclear device
fizzle. No one believed it possible until the Paks did it

What does that have to do with anything?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-18 01:54pm

MKSheppard wrote:
3rd Impact wrote: That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.
The Pakistanis managed to make a GUN type nuclear device
fizzle. No one believed it possible until the Paks did it

Shep, you do realize that the Pakistanis aren't Arabs, right?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-18 02:22pm

Stravo wrote: Shep, you do realize that the Pakistanis aren't Arabs, right?

Same mindset though - Allau Ackbar! These morons managed to make
one of the SIMPLEST nuclear weapons possible FAIL. They managed to fuck
up slamming a chunk of uranium into another chunk of uranium.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-09-18 02:32pm

BoredShirtless wrote:This may not be so bad. The fear from nuclear weapons may force the region to grow up, and negotiate a couple of "outstanding issues". Arabs are emotional, but they aren't stupid.

Agreed. In fact, Some of the countries could stand a good Glassing, IMHO. I doubt, however, they would grow up. It would make them think they have 12 foot dicks with which to fuck their neighbors. Middle east gets nukes, and we're all in for a helluva lightshow. All you fox news guys who are so brave better high tail it outta Tehran now, and for those of you Al-Jazeera propaganda master hatemonger Jag-offs. Stay for the afterglow..errrm..party..yes, afterparty.
/rant off.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-18 03:52pm

I smell bullshit

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-09-18 04:13pm

Lemme put it this way: I have a couple of Arab professors, and I'd feel much better about the Middle East if people like them were in positions of power. However, that doesn't appear to be the case, and there seems to be a reason they're teaching school in the US and not their homelands.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-09-18 05:40pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Lemme put it this way: I have a couple of Arab professors, and I'd feel much better about the Middle East if people like them were in positions of power. However, that doesn't appear to be the case, and there seems to be a reason they're teaching school in the US and not their homelands.

Hell yeah, Arabs really are a bunch of nice people, there's nothing like being lost in the middle of the desert, pulling into an Arab run gas station, and being treated in an extremely friendly manner (plus some turkish coffee

)

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-09-18 06:11pm

Stormbringer wrote:
3rd Impact wrote:That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.
Too bad none of them are running the countries over there.

The Middle East is riddled with ethnic and religious grudges, half stable leaders, terrorists, and all around shitheads. It's quite possibly the most insane region on Earth.

Actually, that goes to the DPRK and alot of the African countries with the infighting.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-09-18 08:06pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:I smell bullshit

Well if I can rely on anyone, it's you for giving me accurate military intelligence I can't find.

You or Phong at least.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-09-18 09:11pm

I agree with Sea Skimmer.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-18 11:34pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Stravo wrote: Shep, you do realize that the Pakistanis aren't Arabs, right?
Same mindset though - Allau Ackbar! These morons managed to make
one of the SIMPLEST nuclear weapons possible FAIL. They managed to fuck
up slamming a chunk of uranium into another chunk of uranium.

It IS the simplest device possibul. Really the only possibul explanation I can think of is that they didn't enrich their material sufficiently, making any nuclear detonation impossible. To fail at that requires incredible incompetence.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-09-18 11:38pm

Link?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-18 11:39pm

Stravo wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
3rd Impact wrote:That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation if I understand you correctly. I happen to know several intelligent Arabs.
The Pakistanis managed to make a GUN type nuclear device
fizzle. No one believed it possible until the Paks did it
Shep, you do realize that the Pakistanis aren't Arabs, right?

He's obviously trying to argue that all Muslims are idiots, so Muslim-dominated nations will never develop credible arms programs, hence we don't have to worry.

Frankly, I don't think he has any real point to make about this, since overconfidence is hardly the best approach to this sort of thing; he just seized an opportunity to bash Muslims.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-09-18 11:46pm

How do you make a gun type nuke fail?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-09-19 12:01am

Sea Skimmer wrote:It IS the simplest device possibul. Really the only possibul explanation I can think of is that they didn't enrich their material sufficiently, making any nuclear detonation impossible. To fail at that requires incredible incompetence.

You forgot about predetonation, which can occur if you attempt to do something silly like accelerate both subcritical masses rather than just one piece into a pit.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-19 12:02am

Darth Wong wrote: He's obviously trying to argue that all Muslims are idiots, so Muslim-dominated nations will never develop credible arms programs, hence we don't have to worry.

*Scans for advanced weapons programs in Muslim nations, finds knock offs of knock offs of knock offs of V-2's and Pakistan's nuclear program*

Impressive record they've got behind them..