EU Books I hate

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-09-15 03:12pm

When i said i liked Chewies death i meant that i liked that it took a whole moon to kill him. He didn't die like a bitch he died kicking and yelling. The way a good wookie should. Han Solo's fall from grace was embarassing to read however, even if he does make up by helping those refugees based on Gypsies.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-15 05:25pm

Kuja wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: (remember that bit about "anyone" being able to use the Force?).
What.

At the start of the novel, there's a character who's unimpressed with the Jedi. So he decides to use a Force demonstration of his own, and promptly picks up a caraffe of water. He talks about how anyone can use the Force if they just put their minds to it, so just to show him up, Luminara uses the Force to dump a series of caraffes over his head. Obi-Wan cheers her on, while this is happening. Thus, we have a violation of the Jedi Code, an UTTER breach of character from Obi-Wan, and a spectacular contradiction of the original films, all in one scene! The book goes on like that.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-09-15 05:27pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Kuja wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote: (remember that bit about "anyone" being able to use the Force?).
What.
At the start of the novel, there's a character who's unimpressed with the Jedi. So he decides to use a Force demonstration of his own, and promptly picks up a caraffe of water. He talks about how anyone can use the Force if they just put their minds to it, so just to show him up, Luminara uses the Force to dump a series of caraffes over his head. Obi-Wan cheers her on, while this is going on. Thus, we have a violation of the Jedi Code, an UTTER breach of character from Obi-Wan, and a spectacular contradiction of the original films, all in one scene! The book goes on like that.

I'm sorry....excuse me?!

I've seen you blast this book for a long time and now I begin to see hints of why. How did you finish reading it? Thats what happened to me, as soon as I could no longer finish KJA's bullshit I knew it was time to kick the EU to the curb.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-09-15 05:29pm

Master of Ossus wrote:He talks about how anyone can use the Force if they just put their minds to it

Did this fuck even watch the damn movies!???!!!!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-15 05:34pm

Stravo wrote:I'm sorry....excuse me?!

I've seen you blast this book for a long time and now I begin to see hints of why. How did you finish reading it? Thats what happened to me, as soon as I could no longer finish KJA's bullshit I knew it was time to kick the EU to the curb.

It took me almost two months to read it (I usually go through a book that length in well under 3 hours). Regardless, the thing that bothered me the most was still how poorly the characters that Foster himself was allowed to define. He stated at LEAST thirty times that "Bariss was very by the book," or a phrase of identical meaning, but then when Anakin does something that he should have done, according to the book, she got mad at him. That was the most bothersome bit, for me, at least. It was worse than books in which characters have no personalities, since the author kept talking about her personality and then decided to ignore that.

Incidentally, there is NO logical character development in the book at all, and we get to "see" their relationships developing by having him helpfully tell us things like "The Jedi were soon talking like old friends." That was great. I wonder how long that one took him to come up with. Since their personalities are always described differently, but their actions and reactions to events were identical, it was particularly frustrating that he never actually showed us the changes in the characters, and only told us about it, since the allegedly omniscient narrator had ZERO credibility with me by the time the book was over.

That was the lesson I took from the book. "Good writers tell [the readers] the story. Crappy authors tell [them] about the story." Foster never actually got down to telling us much of anything. Instead he spent paragraph after paragraph enumerating minor (boring) details about how cool the planet he had come up with was, and what his characters' personalities were like, but then he never came up with anything for them to do, and he never let us actually see what the characters were doing.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-16 12:43am

Master of Ossus wrote:At the start of the novel, there's a character who's unimpressed with the Jedi. So he decides to use a Force demonstration of his own, and promptly picks up a caraffe of water. He talks about how anyone can use the Force if they just put their minds to it, so just to show him up, Luminara uses the Force to dump a series of caraffes over his head. Obi-Wan cheers her on, while this is happening. Thus, we have a violation of the Jedi Code, an UTTER breach of character from Obi-Wan, and a spectacular contradiction of the original films, all in one scene! The book goes on like that.

I agree with Stravo:

That's just so plain wrong. I would've quit reading right at that. Thanks for the warning, I'll never touch this book now.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-17 02:39pm

Kuja wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:At the start of the novel, there's a character who's unimpressed with the Jedi. So he decides to use a Force demonstration of his own, and promptly picks up a caraffe of water. He talks about how anyone can use the Force if they just put their minds to it, so just to show him up, Luminara uses the Force to dump a series of caraffes over his head. Obi-Wan cheers her on, while this is happening. Thus, we have a violation of the Jedi Code, an UTTER breach of character from Obi-Wan, and a spectacular contradiction of the original films, all in one scene! The book goes on like that.
I agree with Stravo:

That's just so plain wrong. I would've quit reading right at that. Thanks for the warning, I'll never touch this book now.

Oh, but don't you want to read about the various adventures that four boring Jedi have while walking around a planet?

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-09-18 10:34am

Master of Ossus wrote: No, no, no. The Approaching Storm was a thousand times worse than PoT, CotJ, or CS. And it did contradict the movies, as well as being boring as sin (remember that bit about "anyone" being able to use the Force?). Why was it so bad? In large part because its character development was actually "negative." We were constantly being told, for instance, that Bariss does everything in a "by-the-book" manner. Every two pages we are reminded that Bariss is "very by-the-book." Then when Anakin does something in accordance with "the book" (a crappy phrase, the first time, much less the thirtieth time in one novel), she gets mad at him. What?

The Jedi have NO personality.

It BLATANTLY contradicts Obi-Wan's character from ANH, when he laughed at Han Solo's skepticism towards the Force.

It BLATANTLY contradicted the movie when it shows Anakin being attracted to Bariss (even though he loved Padme the whole time).

Even though it tries not to go against the movie by making sure that NOTHING happens the whole time, it STILL managed to contradict the movies more than once. That book SUCKED. It was by far worse than anything I've ever had the displeasure of reading, before or since. No one should buy that book under ANY circumstances. It's not worth the ink it's made with. It's written in the prose of a travel brochure, except without any of the interesting places and pictures. It makes little or no sense. And it sucks constantly. That is the craptacular piece of shit I have ever seen a published writer crank out. The author should be shot. The editor should hang his head in shame. The publisher should be dragged out into the streets, run out of town on a rail, then shot. In short, I did not care for that novel.

You got to be shitting me. Yes, the Approaching storm was bad, but worse off than Crystal Star?

Contradicts Obi-wan Character? Crystal Star contradicted every single character in SW OT, Leia to Luke to Han. Hell, the only guy that wasn't twisted beyond recognition was Chewie, and even then.....

It contradicts the movie, with its science fiction, Force anti Force crap. Let's not mention the "More Force equals more life, less force equals no life" crap.

Unlike the relatively stoid Approaching the Storm, Crystal Star permantly damages the brain. There has to be a reason why after darksaber, Crystal Star is the one novel most often mentioned by Rvalencia.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-09-18 11:56pm

Well, I've heard from a friend who is a (low-level, IE, has been published but not books) professional author and has certain friends who are EU authors and other people related to the Lucas Universe's publishing continuum, that their "continuity department" is not very interested in, ah, actual continuity. Instead, when reviewing books, the author is liable to get comments like this infamous one: "There is no toast in Star Wars." With that kind of focus by the "continuity department", it's not really surprising that the EU is as chaotic as it's become.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-09-19 12:34am

PainRack wrote:I hate to say this, but virtually any book in the series save for NJO, that had been written by authors involved in the ST franchise, has my wholesome vote of disapproval on it.

Ann did a somewhat good job tying together the loose ends of Han growing up years, but to me, what she did was to merely perpetuate an EU stereotype, fostered onto her and the SWU by KJA. Of course, what really pisses me off is that although she did thanks Curtis Saxton and Bob Brown for their on the MF and Imps, she really didn't incoporate their work into her novelisation and focused on KJA type style of character development.

And the thing that earned her eternal damnation? She thanked KJA, and acknowledged him as the Chancellor of Star Wars

It would appear that Shit recognises Shit.

Post by **Edi** » 2003-09-19 04:44am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Well, I've heard from a friend who is a (low-level, IE, has been published but not books) professional author and has certain friends who are EU authors and other people related to the Lucas Universe's publishing continuum, that their "continuity department" is not very interested in, ah, actual continuity. Instead, when reviewing books, the author is liable to get comments like this infamous one: "There is no toast in Star Wars." With that kind of focus by the "continuity department", it's not really surprising that the EU is as chaotic as it's become.

Fuck, they should hire MoO and some of the other people here, and we'd see some decided improvement in the books. And boy would I love to see the faces of KJA, McIntyre and all the others who've distorted SW beyond recognition in the EU when their next submission got the red-inked smackdown...

Edi

Edi

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-19 12:49pm

Edi wrote:

Fuck, they should hire MoO and some of the other people here, and we'd see some decided improvement in the books. And boy would I love to see the faces of KJA, McIntyre and all the others who've distorted SW beyond recognition in the EU when their next submission got the red-inked smackdown...

"We like to have the characters maintain at least a superficial resemblance to their movie counterparts."
"Please modify the plot away from a cheap cliche-ridden fantasy kludge."
"You are advised to do research that doesn't start and end with books from West End Games and Kevin J. Anderson."
"There is no such thing as a Super-class Star Destroyer. What retard would actually name a ship class Super?"
"Stop using the Force as a plot device like it was a two-dollar whore."
"Thank you Mr. Zahn. No changes."

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-09-19 01:26pm

Wasn't Crystal Star written between the releases of ANH and TESB, before much of these continuity problems were widely known? I'll agree the characterizations aren't great, but the other continuity problems are IMO mostly due to the fact that ANH was the only reference, so the author had to do more guesswork at what the SW universe was like.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-19 02:08pm

The Dark wrote:Wasn't Crystal Star written between the releases of ANH and TESB, before much of these continuity problems were widely known?

That's Splinter of the Mind's Eye, not Crystal Star.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-19 02:15pm

Kuja wrote:
The Dark wrote:Wasn't Crystal Star written between the releases of ANH and TESB, before much of these continuity problems were widely known?
That's Splinter of the Mind's Eye, not Crystal Star.

And it was written before ESB and RotJ, but after ANH.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-19 02:30pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Kuja wrote:
The Dark wrote:Wasn't Crystal Star written between the releases of ANH and TESB, before much of these continuity problems were widely known?
That's Splinter of the Mind's Eye, not Crystal Star.
And it was written before ESB and RotJ, but after ANH.

And if you read Dark's post with your eyes OPEN, you'll find that's exactly what he said, he jsut got the name wrong.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-19 02:37pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Did this fuck even watch the damn movies!???!!!!

The sad fact is...this is the same guy that wrote the novelization to ANH.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-19 02:38pm

PainRack wrote: You got to be shitting me. Yes, the Approaching storm was bad, but worse off than Crystal Star?

Both books were MASSIVE piles of shit. AS was slightly more massive and more stinkeriffic than CS.

Contradicts Obi-wan Character? Crystal Star contradicted every single character in SW OT, Leia to Luke to Han. Hell, the only guy that wasn't twisted beyond recognition was Chewie, and even then.....

While I agree that CS missed the majority of the movie characters, it at least made SOME effort at maintaining continuity with the films. AS made no attempt at doing so. That was the most blatant violation of character I've ever seen, posted above. And it was just an EXAMPLE. The rest of the book continues to COMPLETELY miss both Anakin and Obi-Wan, the only significant characters from the movies that played any significant role in the novel, and the characters it introduced were annoying and UTTERLY uninteresting. The combination destroyed the novel completely.

It contradicts the movie, with its science fiction, Force anti Force crap. Let's not mention the "More Force equals more life, less force equals no life" crap.

How is this worse than things like the Jedi's acrobatic abilities owing almost completely to their physical prowess, instead of the Force (as depicted in AS, when Kenobi is repeatedly amazed at Luminara's PHYSICAL conditioning when she does things that are remotely athletic)? That violates common sense (how can so many Jedi be that athletic?), the films (Yoda and Dooku are NOT that athletic), and the spirit of the novels. How is this worse than claiming that anyone can use the Force if they try hard enough (which is contradicted at every turn by the films)? Yes, CS's philosophy (and I use that term lightly) blatantly contradicts the films, but so does AS's "you can do ANYTHING" mentality.

Unlike the relatively stoid Approaching the Storm, Crystal Star permantly damages the brain.

BOTH novels damage the brain. AS is literarily worse.

There has to be a reason why after darksaber, Crystal Star is the one novel most often mentioned by Rvalencia.

That's probably because nothing happened in AS that made it worthy of debate. There was NO technical information mentioned. There was NO attempt to "flesh out" the politics and such of the Republic. There was NO attempt to establish jurisdiction for the various branches of their government, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Nothing happened in AS, which was one of its greatest failings. Things happened in CS. Sure, they sucked. But reading about things that are stupid is better than reading stupid writing in which nothing happens.

It is my professional opinion that AS is one of the worst novels ever written. It's HORRIBLE characterization, boring style, lack of substance, and god-awful plot destroy the book. I will conclude with the worst sentence I have ever read in any literature, anywhere. Three guesses where it came from. In case anyone wonders, there are no blasters involved in this scene, nor is there lightning. I am forced to conclude that by "lightning" he means "lightsaber," making the entire sentence utterly worthless. I am not a physicist, but I don't believe that lightning can be described as "spinning," either.

"Anything that came near the Jedi was deflected by lightsabers that seemed to spin and whirl as rapidly as the lightning itself." (page 307)"

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-19 02:42pm

Ossus, have you read "Tatooine Ghost" yet?

I always recommend this when one needs a mind cleanse after reading a shitty SW novel!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-19 02:45pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Oh, but don't you want to read about the various adventures that four boring Jedi have while walking around a planet?

Although...it does have a quote that I enjoy using against Edam and Darkstar:

The fat slug was an expert at twisting words to fit the situation
--Jedi Padawan Barriss, "The Approaching Storm"

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-09-19 02:50pm

First, I did read Tatooine Ghost, which I enjoyed. Denning's a real author, and he actually understands the Saga, which is also a good part of why I enjoyed Star by Star so thoroughly, and found it to be CLEARLY the strongest part of the NJO.

Lord Poe wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Oh, but don't you want to read about the various adventures that four boring Jedi have while walking around a planet?
Although...it does have a quote that I enjoy using against Edam and Darkstar:

The fat slug was an expert at twisting words to fit the situation
--Jedi Padawan Barriss, "The Approaching Storm"

LMAO! That's a great quote to use, Wayne.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-19 02:51pm

Dalton wrote:
Edi wrote:

Fuck, they should hire MoO and some of the other people here, and we'd see some decided improvement in the books. And boy would I love to see the faces of KJA, McIntyre and all the others who've distorted SW beyond recognition in the EU when their next submission got the red-inked smackdown...
"We like to have the characters maintain at least a superficial resemblance to their movie counterparts."
"Please modify the plot away from a cheap cliche-ridden fantasy kludge."
"You are advised to do research that doesn't start and end with books from West End Games and Kevin J. Anderson."
"There is no such thing as a Super-class Star Destroyer. What retard would actually name a ship class Super?"
"Stop using the Force as a plot device like it was a two-dollar whore."
"Thank you Mr. Zahn. No changes."

FUQ!

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-19 02:57pm

Alright MoO and others, I won't read AS. Nor will I read CS. But now I need a new target, so suggestions please. These are books I have read:

TPM/ANH/ESB/ROTJ novelizations
Both Han Solo trilogies (Crispin, Daley)
The first three Tales books (Mos Eisley Cantina, Bounty Hunters, Jabba's Palace)
Shadows of the Empire
Truce at Bakura
All 9 X-Wing books
The Seven Turds (CoPL, New Rebellion, the Jedi Academy trilogy, Darksaber, CoTJ)
Tatooine Ghost
The Thrawn trilogy
The Black Fleet Crisis trilogy
The Hand of Thrawn duology

Suggestions?

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-19 03:01pm

Ender wrote:FUQ!

If you insist

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-19 03:25pm

Dalton wrote:Suggestions?

I, Jedi

Tales of the New Republic

Tales of the Empire

Cloak of Deception

Darth Maul Shadowhunter (I liked it!)