Executor Question

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-09-20 01:53am

I've been reading through Mike's stuff about the ROTJ battle, and I had a question. He mentions that Star Destroyers have a decentralized command system and that destruction of the bridge doesn't necessarily cripple a ship like this.

What I'm wondering is why did the Executor crash into the Death Star? I can't figure out why the ship would go out of control and crash with a decentralized command system (which would be the only way to run things on a ship this big) and I'm curious if the novelization sheds any light on this. Anyone?

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-20 01:58am

The Kernel wrote:What I'm wondering is why did the Executor crash into the Death Star? I can't figure out why the ship would go out of control and crash with a decentralized command system (which would be the only way to run things on a ship this big) and I'm curious if the novelization sheds any light on this. Anyone?

Speculation is that when the bridge was lost, the engines automatically kicked up to full forward in an attempt to get the ship out of the battle zone. Unfortunately, the Executor was pointed at the DS2 when they did so.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-09-20 02:21am

I've heard theories that the gravity field from Endor and the DSII pulled it in. That, and the maneuvering thrusters misfired; perhaps a belated attempt by the bridge crew to move away from the A-Wing?

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-09-20 02:33am

Dalton wrote:I've heard theories that the gravity field from Endor and the DSII pulled it in. That, and the maneuvering thrusters misfired; perhaps a belated attempt by the bridge crew to move away from the A-Wing?

I don't think the gravity part makes much sense with the (relatively) small size of the DSII, but I think Kuja's theory about some kind of automatic response to the destruction of the bridge is particularly inventive and probably makes the most sense. Thanks guys.

Admiral Johnason · Post by **Admiral Johnason** » 2003-09-20 03:01am

I heard that they didn't have time to activate one of the emergency command centers before control was lost.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-09-20 03:19am

The DS gravity was a factor, and the novelization states it was having troble maneuvering during the fighting. Also, in this picture:

you can see one of the main thrusters firing full blast, rocketing the Executor to its demise.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-09-20 03:20am

Admiral Johnason wrote:I heard that they didn't have time to activate one of the emergency command centers before control was lost.

Well, that's pretty much a given, don't you think?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-09-20 05:13am

I think what Wong meant most by a "decentralized command system" is that there's not just one set of senior officers that can run the ship adequately, nor is there one computer system that controls the whole thing. I think he meant more than just the physical design of the vessel.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-09-20 06:10am

SPOOFE wrote:I think what Wong meant most by a "decentralized command system" is that there's not just one set of senior officers that can run the ship adequately, nor is there one computer system that controls the whole thing. I think he meant more than just the physical design of the vessel.

I wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. Actually if you think about it, a ship of this size couldn't function without the ability to command it from multiple locations. For instance, if you knock out the bridge of a Nimitz carrier, they don't lose control of the ship. If you were going to build a 12-km long supership, you are going to make damn sure it has a lot of built in redundency.

All I was asking was why people think the ship malfunctioned and crashed into the Death Star. It obviously wasn't simply the loss of control from the bridge; there has to be a better explanation than a massive ship running their entire control systems through a lightly shielded bridge tower.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2003-09-20 06:11am

there is no automated forward system, cause if the executor flew forward, it would never have crahsed into the death star. if u watch the movie, you can clearly see that the Executor turns towards the death start and crashes into it. Two factors were most likely responsible: the gravity of the DSII made maneuvering more difficult, and the 2nd bridge was unable to react fast enough to compensate that. the executor takes some seconds until it touches the DS hull. even if the help bridge immiadiatle had reacted, it would have been hard to turn the executor in a few secs

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-20 06:36am

I doubt it was some automated system, as the Executor actually dips towards the station. Any automated system would surely check that the escape route was clear.

I've always assumed that the destruction of the bridge caused some malfunction that caused the engines to fire incorrectly, sending it into the DS. The auxilury bridge just couldn't turn them off in time to correct the problem.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-20 06:41am

The Kernel wrote:If you were going to build a 12-km long supership, you are going to make damn sure it has a lot of built in redundency.

17.6 Kilometers, actually.

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-20 08:54am

Lord Poe wrote:The DS gravity was a factor, and the novelization states it was having troble maneuvering during the fighting. Also, in this picture:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/zs/rotj/execdive6.jpg

you can see one of the main thrusters firing full blast, rocketing the Executor to its demise.

I don't think this is a thruster. Reviewing the scene frame by frame, it looks more like vapour. It's too erratic to be a thruster.
(In my opinion, at last)

Don't quote pictures ~ Stormbringer

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-09-20 08:57am

This should be in PSW.
On-topic, The auto-engine theory seems to be more sound IMHO.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-20 10:08am

Sharp-kun wrote:I doubt it was some automated system, as the Executor actually dips towards the station. Any automated system would surely check that the escape route was clear.

I've always assumed that the destruction of the bridge caused some malfunction that caused the engines to fire incorrectly, sending it into the DS. The auxilury bridge just couldn't turn them off in time to correct the problem.

It is standard naval procedure that if the bridge is lost, the throttleman down in engineering goes balls to the awll to get out of there.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-09-20 12:05pm

Auto-forward? Balls to get out of there without looking where he's going?

Although I SUPPOSE the auto-forward theory makes some sense, it would be a really stupid system.

Perhaps this is a case of a bit of everything. The DS is exerting gravity, the Exec. has taken a nasty hit (to it's command system at that), the outer hull has been battered already, and whoever is now in charge is too slow to save the situation. PzGren's opinion that the bright flare thing is a vapour further suggests that it's possible that an engine or something that would leak is damaged badly.

Either that or the Exec. (and therefore other SDs) do indeed die horribly when the bridge is attacked, as per Trekkie claims.

The 'little bit of everything' theory seems most likely to me.

But to repeat The Kernel's original question, is there anything in the non-film cannon that sheds light on this?

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-09-20 12:31pm

Automatically slamming the engines to full has one major advantage: speed is life. Any vessel operating at high speed is harder to hit and tends to be able to get out of range as it will have a speed advantage while the enemy reacts. In the middle of a close-range gunfight like ROTJ its even better as it would allow you to clear the heaviest fighting AND bring long-range guns to bear while the command change over gets things sorted out.

Now personally I tend to think they did this and the damage from the impact also happened to send erroneous signals to the engines that didn't fire.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-09-20 12:38pm

Thread moved

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-20 12:43pm

Worlds Spanner wrote:Auto-forward? Balls to get out of there without looking where he's going?

ITs what is done with modern aircraft carriers and the old battleships. With a ship that big anyone in their way is going to take the brunt of the damage, and its far superior to have a few gashes in the hull then to loose the ship.

Although I SUPPOSE the auto-forward theory makes some sense, it would be a really stupid system.

Yes, its fucking retarded, which is why it has been SOP for almost a hundred years.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2003-09-20 12:50pm

nevermind... IMO, the help bridge just wasnt fast enough

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-09-20 01:28pm

Worlds Spanner wrote:Although I SUPPOSE the auto-forward theory makes some sense, it would be a really stupid system.

Not really. If you coast forward, all guns blazing, you have a much bigger change of survival than if you just sit there. Anyway, there usually isn't a giant 900 km diameter sphere with artificial gravity sitting right next to you.

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-20 01:53pm

Is there any number on the mass of the Executor?
I'm just trying some calculations on the gravitational forces involved.
I took the density of Iron for the Deathstar. Are there other numbers available?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-09-20 01:59pm

PzGren wrote:Is there any number on the mass of the Executor?
I'm just trying some calculations on the gravitational forces involved.
I took the density of Iron for the Deathstar. Are there other numbers available?

I had one, but its on my old and defunct hard drive.

It was something like 2 trillion tons or some shit.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-20 02:05pm

PzGren wrote:Is there any number on the mass of the Executor?
I'm just trying some calculations on the gravitational forces involved.
I took the density of Iron for the Deathstar. Are there other numbers available?

If there is, it will likely be in here:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-09-20 04:37pm

A SOP like that is fine on the open seas but when you're flying through space and close to both a planet and a uber huge battlestation you wouldn't do it. Flying your ship into a planet loses your ship and would cause catastrophic damage to the planet.

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