Executor Question

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-20 04:49pm

Ender wrote:
Worlds Spanner wrote:Auto-forward? Balls to get out of there without looking where he's going?
ITs what is done with modern aircraft carriers and the old battleships. With a ship that big anyone in their way is going to take the brunt of the damage, and its far superior to have a few gashes in the hull then to loose the ship.

The point is, on a ship like Executor, you would assume they would have some way of checking the path is clear. If the bridge is down, its likely that the ship is not doing well, in which case you wouldn't really want to ram into any other ships, let alone a battlestation.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2003-09-20 05:22pm

agreed...

Darth Mall · Post by **Darth Mall** » 2003-09-20 09:11pm

it could be that the sensors were detroyed also when the bridge blew up, or a control link was cut, and the SSD thought that there was open space infront of it.
or the bridge could have ordered the SSD to go down and faster just before it was hit and the secondary bridge (shown is Isard revenge in the Lusyanka, an identical ship to the Executor) had no time to pull up before gravity caught hold of the ship

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-09-20 09:16pm

Soulman wrote:A SOP like that is fine on the open seas but when you're flying through space and close to both a planet and a uber huge battlestation you wouldn't do it. Flying your ship into a planet loses your ship and would cause catastrophic damage to the planet.

You have to remember that the loss of the bridge was a freak accident; in fact, so was the Rebel fleet gaining the upper-hand at all. They shouldn't have needed to adjust their "auto-thrust away from the battle" thing at all. Not to mention that even if they knew about the problems the Death Star's gravity field made, the Executor still had a better chance to live by fleeing even under dangerous circumstances then sitting their temporarily without command, open to any fire the Rebel fleet can throw at it.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2003-09-21 06:05am

IMO the help bridge simple didnt have time to react, and the gravitiy effect of the DS got the executor before the help bridge could re-start the engines

PzGren · Post by **PzGren** » 2003-09-21 09:31am

I don't think that the DS's gravity would turn the Executor around. The point of attack of the gravitational force would be the center of gravity of the Executor. If you let something fall in a vacuum (no air friction) it doesn't turn.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-09-21 11:21am

I always figured they were in the middle of a turn, and (incorporating the "balls to the wall" theory here), when the bridge went out, the computer steadied itself and stopped the turn (but it was still going forward anyway, though it may or may not have revved up the engines), and the secondary bridge just couldn't pull it out in time.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-09-21 02:34pm

Soulman wrote:A SOP like that is fine on the open seas but when you're flying through space and close to both a planet and a uber huge battlestation you wouldn't do it. Flying your ship into a planet loses your ship and would cause catastrophic damage to the planet.

The thing with emergency SOPs is that they are built dirt simple. In other words because you assume a catastrophe you plan for not having anything available. In other words an emergency escape SOP is going to assume that the vessel is nearly crippled thus it will incorporate the fewest possible systems and ideas into its routine. The emergency escape SOP is probably built with the idea that you've lost almost all of your central command and control functions thus it would not incorporate any kind of tactical plot or other device, it would merely try to run the ship to full thrust and get the hell out of dodge.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-09-21 05:27pm

Isn't it possible that during that rapid turn, the inertia was too high too compensate or the compensators failed? It would be an explanation, why the crew did not succeed.

Lex · Post by **Lex** » 2003-09-22 09:01am

CmdrWilkens wrote:
Soulman wrote:A SOP like that is fine on the open seas but when you're flying through space and close to both a planet and a uber huge battlestation you wouldn't do it. Flying your ship into a planet loses your ship and would cause catastrophic damage to the planet.
The thing with emergency SOPs is that they are built dirt simple. In other words because you assume a catastrophe you plan for not having anything available. In other words an emergency escape SOP is going to assume that the vessel is nearly crippled thus it will incorporate the fewest possible systems and ideas into its routine. The emergency escape SOP is probably built with the idea that you've lost almost all of your central command and control functions thus it would not incorporate any kind of tactical plot or other device, it would merely try to run the ship to full thrust and get the hell out of dodge.

That would be stupid. Even a SOP would be intelligent enough to avoid a planet or a moon like battle station. even if your ship is almost lost, you dont want it to be completely destroyed by crushing into a planet or a moon if you build a programm for fleeing. as soulman(EDIT: i wrote wilkins here before, forgive me) said, the impact of a spaceship on a planet would not only kill the ship, but the planet as well. even the most simple system can see a planet and avoid touching it

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 09:46am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
The Kernel wrote:If you were going to build a 12-km long supership, you are going to make damn sure it has a lot of built in redundency.
17.6 Kilometers, actually.

12 Kilometers, actually.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-09-22 10:10am

Super-Gagme wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
The Kernel wrote:If you were going to build a 12-km long supership, you are going to make damn sure it has a lot of built in redundency.
17.6 Kilometers, actually.
12 Kilometers, actually.

17.6. Look at the size of Executor compared to an ISD in ROTJ, as Tyderium approaches.

Also:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/ssd/ssdisd.gif

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:02am

Sharp-kun wrote:
Super-Gagme wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote: 17.6 Kilometers, actually.
12 Kilometers, actually.
17.6. Look at the size of Executor compared to an ISD in ROTJ, as Tyderium approaches.

Also:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/ssd/ssdisd.gif

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd5mile.html

Oh right. Sorry I was under the impression Starwars.com was correct and unofficial sites were incorrect

Strange that...

http://www.starwars.com/databank/starsh ... index.html

And I admit I was wrong. The actual size is 12.8-km

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-22 11:04am

Strange that SW.com also uses the OFFICIAL version and when you stack ISD next to each other(a 1600 m vessel)...11 of them equal 1 SSD.

So I wonder what's right...canon visual or SW.com's statement?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:11am

Ghost Rider wrote:Strange that SW.com also uses the OFFICIAL version and when you stack ISD next to each other(a 1600 m vessel)...11 of them equal 1 SSD.

So I wonder what's right...canon visual or SW.com's statement?

What do you mean by OFFICIAL version? Version of what? SSD? Don't see your point there...

And I'd say that SW.com's statement would be more close to truth than what you pull together from different frames. Besides this isn't the 8km I am arguing for which is clearly wrong, what was done to work out 17.6 was good and all but perhaps a bit too long? Explain to me WHY SW.com would have 12.8km if George Lucas's actual INTENTION was 17.6?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-22 11:20am

In between 17.6 and 8 KM is the 12.8 fallacy which SW.com used and basically became the eternal brainbug that was formed because 17.6 can be confirmed from the movies, and 8 KM was used by WEG which has infected moe minds with it's brain bugs than most.

Visually people have proven time and again from the movies that the Executor is 17.6 KM.

SW.com though took the middle road of 12.8

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:24am

Ghost Rider wrote:In between 17.6 and 8 KM is the 12.8 fallacy which SW.com used and basically became the eternal brainbug that was formed because 17.6 can be confirmed from the movies, and 8 KM was used by WEG which has infected moe minds with it's brain bugs than most.

Visually people have proven time and again from the movies that the Executor is 17.6 KM.

SW.com though took the middle road of 12.8

I know it is not the case but what if 12.8 was used in dialogue but you could still prove 17.6 through visuals? Visuals aren't always perfect to derive numbers from. Especially size.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-09-22 11:35am

True...but in conflicts of canon, visuals usually takes precedence over dialogue.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-22 11:37am

Don't be an ass.

Canon overrides official. That is final.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:38am

Wasn't the model of the Executor actually smaller than that of an ISD? Size was all down to how they did the camera angles/distance or whatever right? Are there any instances where the Executor is actually smaller on screen?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-22 11:41am

No, the Executor model was larger then all of the Imperator models.

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:41am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Don't be an ass.

Canon overrides official. That is final.

Yeah and when there is not 100% proof of those numbers people got from measuring frames but 100% proof that SW.com has 12.8km... I trust stuff made by lucasarts not what bad camera angles might have created. Its not a case of I want the size to be 12.8, infact it would be much cooler the bigger it is. Gives it more appeal but what I want and what I am forced to believe are different. If someone can name ONE other source other than measuring a scene in the film of it being 17.6km then I'll just go neutral as I am with a lot of issues.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-09-22 11:43am

Another thing, if you're going to use such a fucking troll tactic like putting it in your sig, then just piss off...

Next thing you know you'll be making a poll about it.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-09-22 11:43am

Ghost Rider wrote:True...but in conflicts of canon, visuals usually takes precedence over dialogue.

"Saxtonian" scaling calculations often have error readings showing the likely range of error with each scaling technique.

There may actually one more way out of that kind of situation which has not happened yet. AFAIK, what we really say when the Executor is 11-miles long is that it is measured to be 11 times longer than a Star Destroyer.

And a Star Destroyer is one mile, so 11 times 1 mile is 11 miles. But wait, no canon said that (and I'm pretty sure I saw at least all the films.) No canon showed that (at least the scalar calculations had not yet been done, since the official position on ISD length is one of the most congruent and consistent in SW official.)

But official is still official. We might be able to argue that in canon, they show the Executor as 11 times the length of a Star Destroyer, and the canonically stated length is 8, so the canon length of a Star Destroyer is 8/11th of a mile.

I can further scratch up a few conincidences. Some people have complained that the MCs look more like about equal of an ISD rather than significantly shorter. Ironically, if we use 8/11th of a mile for an ISD, it'd bring it fairly close to 1200m!

Or something. Just a hastily thought up notion...

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-09-22 11:46am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Another thing, if you're going to use such a fucking troll tactic like putting it in your sig, then just piss off...

Next thing you know you'll be making a poll about it.

Hey I only put it there because it is my opinion and I have nothing else to put in my sig. I'm not trying to be an ass about it I would like people to convince me otherwise I am not set in my ways. You are just being a fucking prick per usual of a lot of people here. Atleast ghost rider was giving me good responses that are making me reconsider it, you just insult and make absolutely no addition to the discussion.

More than likely you are just attempting to increase your post count in a pathetic way. I'll remove it just to shut you the fuck up. Sorry for having an opinion.