Teacher jailed when boy dies on field trip

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 04:37am

BBC news

Ananova 1

Ananova 2 - the sentencing

Ananova 3 - the impact school trips

The gist is - now a teahcre has actually pleaded guilty to manslaughter after a 10 year old boy died on his field trip, there's the possibility that school field trips might cease altogether.
I see where the Union is coming form in discouraging teahcers from going on field trips until parents accept that 'accidents' happen, but I also think field trips are an important part, not just of the learning process, but of social development.

Personally, I think that childhood comes with certain risks, and that its true accidents happen, but I also think this teacher in particular was irresponsible and deserved the charge on manslaughter. This case should thereforebe veiwed as exception rather than a rule (and field trip organisers should be better trained)

Thoughts?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-09-24 04:59am

I hope the idea of field trips don't cease. If everyone just remained in school, with never leaving, people would over time go nuts, and what about trips to museums, various learning facilities, and general fun?

Education would be fucked without it.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-09-24 07:02am

I agree school field trips should not cease.

Accidents do happen, that's unfortunate.

The problem with field trips, as I see it, is usually a lack of supervision. i.e not enough parent helpers.

Parents should, by law, be able to take a limited number of the day's off work to help supervise field trips for there children.

Then schools would have more volunteer's. I know my own Dad would have liked to go on more field trips with my (and my sister's) classes in grade school, but working full time interfered with that.

Actually, if such a law was in place, schools could tell parents that if they don't help on field trips, there kid doesn't get to go on any until they do, or there kid won't pass.

I will admit, this might be unfair to some people. For example, parents in a wheel chair should not be told if they don't supervise an outdoor hike there kid will not be passing to the next grade.

I'm not a parent or education expert, so I have no idea what's needed on that end. I would like to say that if I could take days off work to supervise my kids trip to a museum or the zoo, I'd go. It's a good way to gage your kids reactions to taking them on family trips to places like that, and in a way your kid won't scream at you for later.

I also think it would be a good idea for teachers to have mandatory CPR and First Aid training. I don't think they need to here in Ontario (again, I'm not a teacher, nor do I know any), but it would probably be a good idea.

The only other idea I can think of is smaller field trip sizes, but that would cut into class time.
(i.e Monday, 1/10th of the class goes, Tuesday 1/10th of the class goes, Wednesday the rest of the class goes)

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-09-24 07:03am

Whoops, typo/bad math on my part

That should be 1/3 - 5th

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-09-24 07:22am

Solauren wrote:The problem with field trips, as I see it, is usually a lack of supervision. i.e not enough parent helpers.

Parents should, by law, be able to take a limited number of the day's off work to help supervise field trips for there children.

I don't know about it being in law, but I know some of the schools I've been to had policies that required a certain amount of parents per children to attend the field trip as well, or the field trip would be cancelled.

Actually, if such a law was in place, schools could tell parents that if they don't help on field trips, there kid doesn't get to go on any until they do, or there kid won't pass.

I will admit, this might be unfair to some people. For example, parents in a wheel chair should not be told if they don't supervise an outdoor hike there kid will not be passing to the next grade.

This is true, but what is stopping the schools from exploiting this? What about single parents that have to work full-time as it is? I think that the parents should be required to help with at the very least one field trip and/or event and/or school function, but I don't think that the consequences should be that the kid doesn't pass (why should the kid suffer for parents' in/action?).

I'm not a parent or education expert, so I have no idea what's needed on that end. I would like to say that if I could take days off work to supervise my kids trip to a museum or the zoo, I'd go. It's a good way to gage your kids reactions to taking them on family trips to places like that, and in a way your kid won't scream at you for later.

Again, the problem is the people that *can't* get off work. Or the people that have other, smaller children, and have a hard time getting a babysitter during the week (as was the case with my family, at times).

I also think it would be a good idea for teachers to have mandatory CPR and First Aid training. I don't think they need to here in Ontario (again, I'm not a teacher, nor do I know any), but it would probably be a good idea.

THAT would be a grand idea, indeed, but what are the odds of that actually get passed into law?

The only other idea I can think of is smaller field trip sizes, but that would cut into class time.
(i.e Monday, 1/10th of the class goes, Tuesday 1/10th of the class goes, Wednesday the rest of the class goes)

This, honestly, makes no sense. If they all go at the same time, it makes it easier. Besides, field trips also require sub teachers for those that don't get their permission slips in on time, or at all, so that would just create more time for substitute teachers, and we all know that substitute teachers and elemtary school kids do NOT mix well.

~ver

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 08:22am

About the parental help - all very well, but the child in question's mother was with him at the time. She even jumped in to save him.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-24 08:37am

What the fuck? So you're now responsible in England if some fucknutted
kid runs off and jumps into the water and drowns while on a field trip you're
supervising?

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 08:46am

MKSheppard wrote:What the fuck? So you're now responsible in England if some fucknutted
kid runs off and jumps into the water and drowns while on a field trip you're
supervising?

No. You're responsible if you tell a reluctant student to jump into a freezing cold plunge pool after you've just passed a returning group of students whose supervisor has warned you it's too cold.

That's when you're responsible.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-24 09:00am

innerbrat wrote:
No. You're responsible if you tell a reluctant student to jump into a freezing cold plunge pool after you've just passed a returning group of students whose supervisor has warned you it's too cold.

That's when you're responsible.

The BBC article however says jack shit about how the kid ended up in the water, and I doubt many people will be reading all four.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 09:05am

Sea Skimmer wrote:The BBC article however says jack shit about how the kid ended up in the water, and I doubt many people will be reading all four.

Sorry, I first read about it in the Metro this morning. I added Ananova becasue they included the information I wanted to talk about (the teacher being irresponsible in this case)

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 09:12am

I should add, in additional explanation, that Shep made an assumption about the situation based on only having read the one article, and then proceeded to Throw a Shep (TM). That's why I snapped at him.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-09-24 10:05am

Well, I looked through all four and it says nothing about making the kid jump in...even in the mention of the video. Just that other groups including an RAF training team had decided it would be a really bad idea to do the activity in the conditions that day.

Aside from which, I wonder what in the name of jumping jesus fuck the mother was up to...she secured special permission for him to come along on the trip which was not intended for people of his age group and then let him run about on his own or with much older children?
This was a secondary school trip and that kid was only 10....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-09-24 10:24am

innerbrat wrote:proceeded to Throw a Shep (TM). That's why I snapped at him.

The article isn't clear, and besides just yesterday, we almost ran a fucknutted
kid down who rode his fucking bicycle across a BUSY TWO LANE
ROAD!

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 10:27am

MKSheppard wrote:
innerbrat wrote:proceeded to Throw a Shep (TM). That's why I snapped at him.
The article isn't clear, and besides just yesterday, we almost ran a fucknutted
kid down who rode his fucking bicycle across a BUSY TWO LANE
ROAD!

Yep. Kids are arrogant fuckwits.
However, I don't think this Max kid was. His teacher was irresponsible.

(again, I apologise for coming at this with a different source. I'll see if the Metro article is online...)

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-09-24 10:28am

innerbrat wrote:I'll see if the Metro article is online...)

No, it isn't. Sorry.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-09-24 10:36am

cancelling field trips would be bad, as not all learning can take place in the classroom. One of my college Profs always said "Never let school get in the way of learning." meaning if there was an opportunity but it conflicted with school, then to go and experience it in the real world because the classroom is not going anywhere.(He was not endorsing students skipping class, but instead taking a semester off to do an intership or travel or whatever)
after all the world is not 100% like it is presented in the classroom.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-09-24 11:08am

if field trips get cancelled thats my a-level grade fuxxored

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-09-24 11:33am

If the teacher "made" the kid jump in when he didn't want to, yeah, he deserves to get the book thrown at him.

But I don't see a connection between this case and all other possible field trips in the future. A ridiculous overreaction.