Is the brick industry in trouble?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-09-26 12:43am

Mike, is brick better then concrete block?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-09-26 12:44am

kojikun wrote:Mike, is brick better then concrete block?

For what exactly?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-09-26 02:22am

Brick is a bad choice in an earthquake zone, or in hot climates, but otherwise it's the better choice. Wood frame houses are flimsy firetraps by comparison.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-09-26 02:25am

Are steel houses a good idea?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2003-09-26 02:31am

Hamel wrote:Are steel houses a good idea?

They're building steel frame houses in some places. There's a lot to be said for them: they're stronger than masonry but more flexible, so they won't crumble in an earthquake. And because steel is much stronger than wood, you don't need as many structural elements, so the interior can be much more open.

Unfortunately, they cost a lot more, too.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-09-26 02:33am

Dteel frame houses are a big thing here in florida, too. We have a HUGE termite problem. Little concern to those with steel-framed houses.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-09-26 04:34am

So if I'm eventually going to end up in California (perhaps around San Luis Obispo,) brick wouldn't necessarily be a good choice?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-09-26 05:51am

Stormbringer wrote:
beyond hope wrote:It's all those walls of ignorance people keep building... they're using up the brick supply.

On a serious note, would climate make any difference in the decision to use brick?
Some what. It obviously isn't as smart a choice in hot climate as in a cool one.

That is not true. As already said, almost *all* houses in Europe are solidly build with bricks. In areas that can get really hot, like Greece, Italy and Spain.

Needless to say, those houses are adjusted to that climate in their construction. For one, stone, or bricks, are way better at insulating...

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-09-26 05:54am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Brick houses take too long to build compared to a pure timber framed structure, and finding sufficient masons for any large development isn't easy.

Well, you have enough masons if there are enough houses to build.
And you would have trouble finding someone to construct a timber-based house here. (If it was legal to build a house with wood alone in the first place...)

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-26 08:46am

Dahak wrote: Well, you have enough masons if there are enough houses to build.
And you would have trouble finding someone to construct a timber-based house here. (If it was legal to build a house with wood alone in the first place...)

Well Europe has already completed the clear cutting process for basically the whole continent, while America can both supply most of its own needs and export vast amounts of timber. From what I've read, timber is much more expensive in Europe and Japan then in America. So brick makes more sence.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-09-26 09:14am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Dahak wrote: Well, you have enough masons if there are enough houses to build.
And you would have trouble finding someone to construct a timber-based house here. (If it was legal to build a house with wood alone in the first place...)
Well Europe has already completed the clear cutting process for basically the whole continent, while America can both supply most of its own needs and export vast amounts of timber. From what I've read, timber is much more expensive in Europe and Japan then in America. So brick makes more sence.

There are forrests and enough wood...
But seriously, no one contemplates building houses with wood...
And I would feel unsafe in a wood house...

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-26 09:51am

Dahak wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:
Dahak wrote: Well, you have enough masons if there are enough houses to build.
And you would have trouble finding someone to construct a timber-based house here. (If it was legal to build a house with wood alone in the first place...)
Well Europe has already completed the clear cutting process for basically the whole continent, while America can both supply most of its own needs and export vast amounts of timber. From what I've read, timber is much more expensive in Europe and Japan then in America. So brick makes more sence.
There are forrests and enough wood...
But seriously, no one contemplates building houses with wood...
And I would feel unsafe in a wood house...

modern wood houses are perfectly safe. Pressure treated lumber is quite fire resistant. Blue board sheetrock is extremely fire resistant. Costs a little more, but worth it. Granted, old wood frame houses with horsehair plaster over slats and oil based paint burn pretty quickly, but you have ample time to get the hell out...but they stopped using that years ago.

There is a hotel by my plant. We are located in a somewhat suburban looking commercial/light industrial area. This hotel is built entirely of wood! The frame, the roof , the walls. A three story 150 room hotel. all wood, just finished....and Rhode Island has some of the toughest fire codes in the country.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-09-26 10:02am

Col. Crackpot wrote:There is a hotel by my plant. We are located in a somewhat suburban looking commercial/light industrial area. This hotel is built entirely of wood! The frame, the roof , the walls. A three story 150 room hotel. all wood, just finished....and Rhode Island has some of the toughest fire codes in the country.

Is it called "The Sizzler" based on the sound the clientele will make when one of them falls asleep smoking?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-09-26 10:05am

As long as there is a Boston, there will be bricks.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-09-26 10:17am

StarshipTitanic wrote:As long as there is a Boston, there will be bricks.

not bricks, big ass chunks of brownstone. There are far more brownstone buildings than brick ones in beantown.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-09-26 11:21am

Dahak wrote: There are forrests and enough wood...
But seriously, no one contemplates building houses with wood...
And I would feel unsafe in a wood house...

humbug! modern wooden houses are no problem. steel houses are much more of a problem they cant resist as much heat as wood houses.

steel has to be either wraped up into something fireproof such as concrete for example or to get a T30 (that number behind the T is the time in minutes which is the minimum amount of minutes it has to resist befor it collapses) you can cover it with antifire paint.
you can´t get T60 or T 90 steel by painting it. you really have to cover it whereas it is no problem to make T90 wood.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-09-26 12:08pm

Here, every single house and building is made with a combination of brick and poured concrete. No "wooden" shit. The closest I've seen to an US house was that prefab bedroom they built on the roof of my house so I could move out of some shitty storage I was using when I wanted my own room.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-09-26 04:54pm

Stormbringer wrote:
beyond hope wrote:It's all those walls of ignorance people keep building... they're using up the brick supply.

On a serious note, would climate make any difference in the decision to use brick?
Some what. It obviously isn't as smart a choice in hot climate as in a cool one.

They're also likely to be better in rainier climates (at least compared with pressure treated wood siding). Also it will transfer less heat to the house than aluminum siding so it beats that in the heat, not sure against vinyl though.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-09-26 05:12pm

Around Detroit and the suburbs I've never seen anything but brick homes. Of course, all these homes are 30+ years old. Up around Grand Rapids, where some of my aunts and uncles live, they're building and already have wooden houses instead.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-09-26 07:18pm

Dahak wrote: There are forrests and enough wood...
But seriously, no one contemplates building houses with wood...
And I would feel unsafe in a wood house...

Western Europe has very very few old growth forests, and stuff that's grown since sucks for the timber industry. Just because it's a tree doesn't mean you'll turn a profit off it. As for the safety of wooden houses, they do burn very badly, but I've seen plenty of brick and stone buildings burn down to nothing. And if they start collapsing they are extremely dangerous top fire fighters. And with modern building codes rarely could you rebuild with the existing walls.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-09-26 07:47pm

that and lumberjacks unlike mason's aren't being constantly linked to everythign by conspiricy kooks....

salm · Post by **salm** » 2003-09-26 08:34pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Dahak wrote: There are forrests and enough wood...
But seriously, no one contemplates building houses with wood...
And I would feel unsafe in a wood house...
Western Europe has very very few old growth forests, and stuff that's grown since sucks for the timber industry. Just because it's a tree doesn't mean you'll turn a profit off it.

what do you think we grow forrest for? because of the beauty of it? bullshit, it makes a lot of money. we dont plant stuff that takes 200 years to grow to a usable size. it´s mainly pines and fir trees and spruces which grow to a reasonable size within a couple of years and are then manufactued into building timber.

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-09-26 09:05pm

Wooden frame with steel beams are the norm in MD. However, brick is commonly used to make more expensive houses very pretty.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-09-26 09:18pm

Death from the Sea wrote:brick homes are still popular here in Texas, this is the first I have heard of this....

If you find a brick home in California it is either very old and very lucky to have surivived quakes. Or it belongs to a very rich family who had it custom built.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-09-26 09:50pm

Darth Wong wrote:Brick houses are better. They look better and they're more solid. Yes, they're becoming more rare, but so are cars with perimeter frames. It's just a matter of economics.

Tell me about it, I see million dollar homes built with 10 cent materials. The floors are made of chipboard and the joists and support beams look severely underbuilt and would likely collapse if you put say, a grand piano on the floor. Sure they may have marble tiles and look all pretty, but you can make the floor move just by bouncing on it, it's rather unsettling.

In contrast the home I live in is built to ridiculous standards. The floor is held up by 2X12's 12' (real 2x12's, not the 1.5X10.5's that they call 2X12's these days) long spaced 16" apart and crossbraced to each other every 4'. A 8" steel I-beam runs the length of my house to support the joists and it's held up by concrete walls & steel poles every 10'. The floors are made of diagonal boards with a layer of plywood on top. You could probably put a 5000 pound safe on my floor without budging it. The main floor feels just as solid as the concrete slab in the basement floor.