Trekkie Argument Cheat Sheet

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-29 12:56am

Grand Admirial Shaft

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-09-29 12:57am

CmdrWilkens wrote:
phongn wrote:
phongn wrote: I think I like using Marina's fleet calcs better. 378 million FTL warships is a nice number
Actually, if one wanted to be Evil, combine the thousand ship quotes with the Marina calcs
Yes 378 million FTL ships with 1e33W firepower average

A 3.78E41Watt FTL fleet..

Plus hundreds of millions more patrol craft, which outgun GCS's 20 to 1 and millions of fixed battle stations, course she based those calcs off each world having two, when it seems that more core worlds must have dozens at the very least.

Every gets even more insane if we accept the high-end Alderaan calculations and factor in the shields absorption..

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-09-29 01:39am

Yes 378 million FTL ships with 1e33W firepower average

HAHA, yes if the idiot Trekkies kept spouting crap, we can alway use SW high-end and really go broke

the imperials will tear the ST univserse a new one with these numbers

Doomriser · Post by **Doomriser** » 2002-09-29 08:52am

We tried something like this in ASVS. It was called "Ready Made Rebuttals." The problem was the sheer amount of twists that Trekkies could put on old arguments, rendering RMRs less useful.

Australopithicus · Post by **Australopithicus** » 2002-09-29 09:28am

Actually, there aren't (as you all should've guessed) 2,000,000 Borg ships. More like 29,085. Also, there are 10,066 Dominion vessels, 5,976 Romulan ships, 6,670 UFP ships, 6185 Klingon vessels, 5418 Cardassian ships, and rounding it all off is 2,122 Ferengi ships....

....Which adds up to a nice, not particularly round number of 65,522 between them.

Of course, this info isn't canon. I got this from Trekmania, a Star Trek site, and the estimates here seem pretty accurate...Not that the combined power of these would be able to take down the empire even then...

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-09-29 05:38pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Flak burst effect was seen clearly in RotJ when not connected even remotely with starships. It is clearly not an effect of shields and turbolasers.

Hmm...interesting. There's so much about ROTJ I don't know.

Is it possible that the flak effect is from some kind of interruption
of a turbolaser, such as something coming between the lightspeed
beam and the green bolt/visible component?

That's probably best left to Pure SW. I need to compile a list
of questions to post there and send to Adam for good measure.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2002-09-29 10:35pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Flak burst effect was seen clearly in RotJ when not connected even remotely with starships. It is clearly not an effect of shields and turbolasers.

Examples? I know that many fans have adopted the notion of "flak bursting" weapons, but I also know that some analysts have disagreed with their existance. And there is certainly some valid reasons to believe they DON'T exist.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-30 07:53pm

Can I get screen caps of the shot showing the ISD bridge still there and the captain still alive please? I need them for another debate and lack the tech. Also, can I get a link to this "Trekmania" site?

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-09-30 08:15pm

Failed Glory wrote: Science is defined as the state of knowing

No it's not. It's the act of finding out.

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » 2002-09-30 08:27pm

SWPIGWANG wrote:8. ST engineers are capable of reality twisting with technobabble and defeat SW warships by remoduating the subspace phased frequency to interact with quantum siguarity to cause a combinatory energy surge within SW shields causing them to be ineffective.

LOL!!! Star Trek Egineers are really Sons of Ether??? That explains SO MUCH!!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-01 05:01pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Flak burst effect was seen clearly in RotJ when not connected even remotely with starships. It is clearly not an effect of shields and turbolasers.
Examples? I know that many fans have adopted the notion of "flak bursting" weapons, but I also know that some analysts have disagreed with their existance. And there is certainly some valid reasons to believe they DON'T exist.

Next time you watch the Battle of Endor, pay attention to all of the explosions in the background. The best example of this is during the scene in which Lando comments that the ISD's are not attacking. The line is: "Only the fighters are attacking, I wonder what those Star Destroyers are waiting for." There are, then, two explosions clearly visible from the cockpit that nothing travels into. They did not come from the ISD's, because the ISD's were not attacking them, and there were no other ships between those ships and the Falcon at the time. Nothing seems to be travelling anywhere near them, including turbolaser fire. This leads me to agree with seanrobertson's interpretation, that the flak effect shown in RotJ is likely a product of the invisible component of a turbolaser. There is clearly nothing in the vicinity, though, that would explain the explosions in the background that is visible. The only possibilities are that there is some kind of weapon that is too small to see on camera that causes explosions that are nowhere near ships, or that there is something else going on. The best explanation I can come up with is that they are produced by turbolaser fire.

I have no idea what evidence has been produced that such bursts do not exist, but they appear to have been seen in numerous movies. RotJ was just the best example.