The Beast on a New Republic ISD

[Mr Bean]

Here is a quote from the manual:"Sentinal shields are no defense against Beast missiles; the drone's[missile's] organic tip absorbs the field charge and allows the missiles to slip through.

Ahh so its not tecnobabble mearly a perchange therfore they would not work
The missles mearly try and abosrd the energy of the shields,
Given the powerlevel of SW shielding, they have about a week of absorbing to do....

Uh, we have particle shielding too(Level 3 Sentinal shields). Sure they require microships to keep them up but these are cheap. Besides (off topic) did the DS1 have particle shielding? How did the X wings go through the shields? Can fighters or other relatively low velocity objects pass through shields?

Tarkin ordered them down, he wanted to prove to the Rebels how Useless it was to attack his new toy

Oh and how come flack isn't used more often in the films? Also, can the TLs fire at >= 200 GT repeatedly? Or is it a shoot once, long reload or messes up the weapon type shot?

2 Seconds firing and cooldown rate is the stated and observed Speed, They are expected AT LEAST to be able to fire contiously for one hour

Don't those turrets have horrible tracking, making them horrible against fighters? I mean these are the people who couldn't hit an asteroid (whether or not the shields were up is for debate.

HTLs are horrible aginst fighters because they PHYISCLY can't track fast enough to Target somthing traveling at Fractions of C
Heres a comparsion, go buy a .22 Pistol, now go down to the Drag Racing track, stand 50 Feet away from the track and aim for the back left tire of the Drag Racer, Stand about a foot to the left of the spot they release the parchutes at


Think you can hit that tire?
Thats the problem for HTLs, the Fighters are simply moving to fast

As for the astroid, tis like trying to doge water in a rain-storm, sooner or later you will get wet

How long does it take to scramble fighters, assuming the pilots are not in the TIEs

They will be however, they are being sent after a rouge ISD, Furthermore I don't see it likley they would even launcher Fighters in this case

Also, do turbolaser bolts hit a target and keep going, or do they blow up? If they just blow up, the missiles can keep fire off an ISD by absorbing the TLs. Besides, you can make a lot of missiles in 2 hours.... fire swarms and some will always get through

Depends on the target, on Shields by Design some of it is relfected away, some is absorbed,
On normal *hard and soft targets they keep going till they run out of energy but shead it for everything they hit

Um you can make a lot of sentinals in 2 hours, 12 for an all around sphere

With what? What raw materials? Can the Beast wave its hands and produce a ship able to build things?

How small are imp shield generators anyway? Maybe they can replace the sentinal shield generators?

Imperal shield generators are any size you want them to be, even down to suitcase size

How does the empire know if an ISD has gone rouge? How long does it take them to realize this and go through the bureaucracy?

There IS no Bureacucracy in Fleet Command, You have your Fleet and your Loyal to the Cause, and you go where you want
As for the simple fact is the *Beast infection is one of those things they cordinate with other ships

Does the Beast instantly consume people or is there a few seconds lag? Otherwise the tons of screaming and such over the Com channel after the ISD was dispatched to check out a ananomly will be a big friggen clue

*most of the Rest Sniped

Looks its planily obvious you are pulling any vaugly possible reason out of your ass to justify the beast winning here, every time I explain how quickly it would die you change the senarior, when I agian explain, you change the senarior
Look you want to keep doing this? Pick somthing and fucking stick with it, I'm more than happly to debate you but I won't be bullshited to

Only 200 feet of only titanium? And don't give me the "made of Real Neutronium" crap. Neutronium armor would be useless, since it would fall apart leaving deadly neutron radiation flying in every direction and weakening everything else. Its gotta be something else. But if not... then I think a couple GT would go through that. I really think ISDs have more then that...., but

This has been done already before the Hull of an ISD is ENHANCED with Neutronium, yes Neutronium mined from Neutron stars, SW managed to do it, We don't know how, just like we don't know how Hyperspace works but bother are cannon deal with it

Also when the imps attack, do they attack from multiple vectors? If so, do the ISDs face the direction that they were when they entered hyperspace? If so, then how long does it take for an ISD to turn completely around?

Less than thirty seconds from all accouonts but that hardly matters as it has weapons on every single Arch, even directly from the back you still have ten HTLs to bring to bear plus unknow MTLs and 15 LTLs....

Oh and what manufacturing facilities are on an ISD?

None an Imperial ISD carrys a Year's worth of Supplies, Several Plantary Bases but no manufacting facilites outside of what is in the bases(Which have to be Depolyed before you can do anything with them)

*But to repeat its pretty damn obvious you want the Beast to beat the Empire here, One of the reasons why you keep switching things to benfit the Beast here

So pick a damn senarior, Stick with it, or we will stop here

[Guest]

Ok fine the scenerio is that the beast has an ISD, which was infected because the crew decided to check out something interesting . The beast can hyperspace to an asteroid field to harvest, but the enemy will catch up in 2 hours. However the beast can stall for at most 1 more hour. It can kamikazie something to spread beast plasma. Two hours before 3-4?(how many?) ISDs arrive. They have heard some screams, but shortly after the beast impersonates the crew and says everything is fine. The crew of the other ISDs are suspicious. Pilots are put in their fighters and are sent out to investigate. The Imps will open fire as soon as they make a scan. Imp ISDs on red alert. Microjumps to get closer to the enemy are allowed.

2 Seconds firing and cooldown rate is the stated and observed Speed, They are expected AT LEAST to be able to fire contiously for one hour

At full power or at reduced power/standard power?

With what? What raw materials? Can the Beast wave its hands and produce a ship able to build things?

Basically strip out anything useless inside the ISD to build small things like fighters (it does have a hanger, right?). Also harvest resources in an asteroid field, since the beast can harvest a lot of things in a short amount of time. It can't build anything larger then would fit in the hanger. To build anything larger it would have to capture a shipyard or planet(Ram into it to infect it?) or build something, which would take time it does not have.

HTLs are horrible aginst fighters because they PHYISCLY can't track fast enough to Target somthing traveling at Fractions of C
Heres a comparsion, go buy a .22 Pistol, now go down to the Drag Racing track, stand 50 Feet away from the track and aim for the back left tire of the Drag Racer, Stand about a foot to the left of the spot they release the parchutes at


Think you can hit that tire?
Thats the problem for HTLs, the Fighters are simply moving to fast

As for the astroid, tis like trying to doge water in a rain-storm, sooner or later you will get wet

How fast are TIEs? (in meters/sec)

They will be however, they are being sent after a rouge ISD, Furthermore I don't see it likley they would even launcher Fighters in this case

The Imps would launch fighters to intercept missiles. Also, remember they don't know if it is rouge or not, they are just suspicious, unless standard Imp procedure is to blow every suspicious ISD out of space.

Ahh so its not tecnobabble mearly a perchange therfore they would not work
The missles mearly try and abosrd the energy of the shields,
Given the powerlevel of SW shielding, they have about a week of absorbing to do....

Are there no shields around the engines? Use infection beam there.
Otherwise just weaken the shields with massed proton torpedoes (HW manufacturing, as well as presumably transmutation (how else could they get all the minerals they need from nickel/iron asteroids)), so the missiles would pass through easily. If worse came to worse, just ram the other ISD to transfer beast plasma.

None an Imperial ISD carrys a Year's worth of Supplies, Several Plantary Bases but no manufacting facilites outside of what is in the bases(Which have to be Depolyed before you can do anything with them)

Plantary? what, Planetary? please spell right, I know you know how to spell.

Remember, the Beast converted half of a Somtaaw Mining ship into a full mothership with manufacturing and mining capabilities. Ok it already had a hanger bay and an external super cap ship manufacturing facility on it, but fighters and other things can't be built in the super cap ship facility. How long it took I dunno. However it would'nt take that long for it to retrofit something small.

This has been done already before the Hull of an ISD is ENHANCED with Neutronium, yes Neutronium mined from Neutron stars, SW managed to do it, We don't know how, just like we don't know how Hyperspace works but bother are cannon deal with it

Sigh... Why do you rabid warsies insist on saying it's real neutronium. The neutrons have no charge and would leak out of the armor instantly. Just say that it's some uber-material called neutronium like instead of saying it's neutronium. You can't use neutronium for anything without taking active measures to keep it in place, like antimatter. However if it is official we'll just have to deal with it (another example of EU writers pulling things out of their ass)

Does the Beast instantly consume people or is there a few seconds lag? Otherwise the tons of screaming and such over the Com channel after the ISD was dispatched to check out a ananomly will be a big friggen clue

There is a few seconds lag, hence the Imps are suspicious, even though the Beast can impersonate the real crew.

Depends on the target, on Shields by Design some of it is relfected away, some is absorbed,
On normal *hard and soft targets they keep going till they run out of energy but shead it for everything they hit

Imperal shield generators are any size you want them to be, even down to suitcase size

Cool, that means you can put them on sentinals to soak up the first wave of fire, then they will collapse quickly and blow up, but that is why you have other layers of sentinals. Shield generators can make a bubble, right? This might buy another 20 seconds for attempts to infect, etc.

[Guest]

damn messed up. Actually the hanger module build fighters. However the beast modified it to act as a full blown mothership

[Mr Bean]

At full power or at reduced power/standard power?

Acutal Full power TL shots what I'm refering to is a BDZ(Base Delta Zero Operation) Whereby a Single ISD can melt the crust off of a planet and destroy all life on any unshielded planet in 1 Hour

Basically strip out anything useless inside the ISD to build small things like fighters (it does have a hanger, right?). Also harvest resources in an asteroid field, since the beast can harvest a lot of things in a short amount of time. It can't build anything larger then would fit in the hanger. To build anything larger it would have to capture a shipyard or planet(Ram into it to infect it?) or build something, which would take time it does not have.

First a point, Shipyards in SW are so well defended not even funny, Kuat is the typical example they keep roughly 1k of Capships there, 500 of which are Decated ISD MK I or better Cap ships designed to repell attackers
,
As for Harvesting how does it build? Through Techbabble? None of the typical SW vechials can be built from the make-up of the Typical Astroid Field, Neutrionium, Tphyionion Gas and Hypermatter are rare stuff in an astroid field

How fast are TIEs? (in meters/sec)

Fractons of C which means anywhere from .1-.9(Speed of Missles accoring to NJO)
So say .6 or 180,000 Meter/Sec at top speed though Obviously they slow down when in Astroid Fields and the like

The Imps would launch fighters to intercept missiles. Also, remember they don't know if it is rouge or not, they are just suspicious, unless standard Imp procedure is to blow every suspicious ISD out of space.

Standerd Pratice in causes of Suspected Hive Virus Infections(Similar to the Beast in they infect realy realy fast just not sentient) is overkill,
Imperals are by Nature Suspecious so its a toss up depends on the man on the scean

Are there no shields around the engines? Use infection beam there.

No thier are Shields there too, They are special filter(Or at least appear to be so) to allow the passage of the Ionic flow out while protecting them from Attacks
Also the insane high heat/lack of anything but shoild materials back there tends to be bad things for infections

Otherwise just weaken the shields with massed proton torpedoes (HW manufacturing, as well as presumably transmutation (how else could they get all the minerals they need from nickel/iron asteroids)), so the missiles would pass through easily. If worse came to worse, just ram the other ISD to transfer beast plasma.

The problem agian is you have less than seven seconds from FIRE till the Beasts ISD has lost shields and another eighteen seconds before any of the Imperal ISDs have lost thiers

Also it should be pointed out the trival amount of KE(Compared with shielding) that the ISD could achive in the Astroid Field

Plantary? what, Planetary? please spell right, I know you know how to spell.

Acutal I don't, English is not my first lanugage

Remember, the Beast converted half of a Somtaaw Mining ship into a full mothership with manufacturing and mining capabilities. Ok it already had a hanger bay and an external super cap ship manufacturing facility on it, but fighters and other things can't be built in the super cap ship facility. How long it took I dunno. However it would'nt take that long for it to retrofit something small.

Irrelvent:The tools to build an Cap ship and the Tools to build a Fighter differ only in size and scope

Sigh... Why do you rabid warsies insist on saying it's real neutronium.

Hey I'm not rabid(notice the lack of Rabid anywhere? I'm Ironic not rabid )
Furthemore its Cannon Deal with it

There is a few seconds lag, hence the Imps are suspicious, even though the Beast can impersonate the real crew.

As I remaked Earilier the Beast(Besides sentients) is none to diffrent from the Hive Viruses of Before
A period of Screaming followed by silence would realy tip them off to somthing going wrong

The Hive Virus that took down the Katana fleet drove its crew made as it was killing everyone
And they went from Mad-Dead in less than an hour by all accounts

Cool, that means you can put them on sentinals to soak up the first wave of fire, then they will collapse quickly and blow up, but that is why you have other layers of sentinals. Shield generators can make a bubble, right? This might buy another 20 seconds for attempts to infect, etc.

Not quite, Even if you can build em suitcase size, you still can't power em


To reterate the fact is SW has already DELT with somthing like the Beast, Asides from the Fact its pretty Smart the Hive Viriuses of the Per-Clone War days where just as nasty, infected just as fast and had near the same deadly results, The only way the defeated the Viruses was through Massive issolation and destruction before in the Empires time they finaly found out how to cure the things,
Before then the ROE where simple
Slash and Burn it can not be allowed to Spread

Because of the Speed of some Hive viruses those orders where never removed from all Captians ROE....

[Admiral Drason]

What ship does the star destroyer carry that harvests minerals? I dont recall ISDs every needing to mine asteroids. What would the beast do pull a worker out of its ass, and even if it had the raw material what would it do with them, magicaly build a cruise missle. you cant buld wepons if you dont have the facilitys.

[Guest]

To reterate the fact is SW has already DELT with somthing like the Beast, Asides from the Fact its pretty Smart the Hive Viriuses of the Per-Clone War days where just as nasty, infected just as fast and had near the same deadly results, The only way the defeated the Viruses was through Massive issolation and destruction before in the Empires time they finaly found out how to cure the things,
Before then the ROE where simple
Slash and Burn it can not be allowed to Spread

Damn, that means empire has a MUCH better chance. Beast loses.

Fractons of C which means anywhere from .1-.9(Speed of Missles accoring to NJO)
So say .6 or 180,000 Meter/Sec at top speed though Obviously they slow down when in Astroid Fields and the like

Damn, HW ships can only make at most 1000 m/s. Missiles are dead, especially considering the fact that they are huge corvette sized objects moving at only 650 m/s.

What ship does the star destroyer carry that harvests minerals? I dont recall ISDs every needing to mine asteroids. What would the beast do pull a worker out of its ass, and even if it had the raw material what would it do with them, magicaly build a cruise missle. you cant buld wepons if you dont have the facilitys.

There is a mission which captured frigate sized refugee ships, with no facilities whatsoever (hence they are defenseless), when hit by cruise missiles, start making corvette sized missiles and launching them within seconds. Just strip out materials inside the ship that would otherwise be used for the crew to build the workers, then start harvesting. However the ISD probably doesn't have the processing facilities, so the amount of cruise missiles is limited to the amount of material making up the inside of the ship, which isn't much. The transmuting equipment or whatever is probably only available on a carrier, processor, or command ship, and all these are huge.


DAMN looks like Beast IS dead.

[PeZook]

Well, the Beast is a really, really cool villain, but it could spread so quickly in the HW universe only because it managed to subvert a full production facility on the Kuun-Lan. Rapid-production technology seem to be rather common in the HW galaxy, so some production facilities could have been mounted on those transports, too (to rapidly produce colony buildings for example) - but we don't really know much about that ship class to pass any judgement.

The Beast could harvest asteroids with the ISDs tractor beams, it just wouldn't be able to get any raw materials and/or transmutate anything from them

BUT:
ISDs carry mines that can be deployed by TIEs. Mines are simple things, that could easily be made using a machine shop that a ship as big as an ISD is bound to have, and you could retrofit proton torpedoes and other munitions to work as mines. I think that the Beast would have the best chance to defend itself from the reactionary force by making as many mines as it can (unfortunately, it doesn't have HW-like fast production facilities, so it won't be much) and totally littering the asteroid field with them. If it could pierce the shields of one or two ISDs and infect them, it could win the engagement. But the thing won't stand a chance to conquer the galaxy, it simply could not subvert a major military shipyard, and small, private ones would be promptly annihilated after the infection is discovered and a long time before they could build any really big ships.
The beast's best bet is to lay low, subvert an uncospicous (sp?) ship, dumping the ISD, hyper to some backward area of the galaxy, preferably with no holonet, keep quiet and try to establish a base of operations by subverting worlds. But will it be smart enough to design and build enything from scratch? I don't think so. It always uses subverted tech, and although it can assimilate scientists and engineers, it doesn't assimilate their expertise.

Hmm...it may be a cool idea for a fanfic, you know

[Guest]

Well, the Beast is a really, really cool villain, but it could spread so quickly in the HW universe only because it managed to subvert a full production facility on the Kuun-Lan. Rapid-production technology seem to be rather common in the HW galaxy, so some production facilities could have been mounted on those transports, too (to rapidly produce colony buildings for example) - but we don't really know much about that ship class to pass any judgement.

The Beast could harvest asteroids with the ISDs tractor beams, it just wouldn't be able to get any raw materials and/or transmutate anything from them

BUT:
ISDs carry mines that can be deployed by TIEs. Mines are simple things, that could easily be made using a machine shop that a ship as big as an ISD is bound to have, and you could retrofit proton torpedoes and other munitions to work as mines. I think that the Beast would have the best chance to defend itself from the reactionary force by making as many mines as it can (unfortunately, it doesn't have HW-like fast production facilities, so it won't be much) and totally littering the asteroid field with them. If it could pierce the shields of one or two ISDs and infect them, it could win the engagement. But the thing won't stand a chance to conquer the galaxy, it simply could not subvert a major military shipyard, and small, private ones would be promptly annihilated after the infection is discovered and a long time before they could build any really big ships.
The beast's best bet is to lay low, subvert an uncospicous (sp?)[inconspicuous] ship, dumping the ISD, hyper to some backward area of the galaxy, preferably with no holonet, keep quiet and try to establish a base of operations by subverting worlds. But will it be smart enough to design and build enything from scratch? I don't think so. It always uses subverted tech, and although it can assimilate scientists and engineers, it doesn't assimilate their expertise.

Hmm...it may be a cool idea for a fanfic, you know

Dammit, too mad my scenario doesn't allow that . I think it can build stuff from scratch, since it knows how to make cruise missiles and infection beams without subverting anything. However in the HW universe, it just seems easier to subvert ships.

[Mr Bean]

Indeed, We had this discussion awhile back in reference to how the Katana fleet was lost,

Hive viruses where NASTY
Naster than the Beast, as they spread faster than it can and killed its victums though each strain had some particular side-effect as the first target of hive viruses was always the brain

hmm I don't remeber all the names but the ones I remeber mentioned where
One that caused you to convules until you died
One that slowy killed your senses(Sight, Sound, Smell) before killing your body
The one that got the Katana Fleet, It drove you insane
One I belived attacked the self control centers of human brains(non-humans it just killed realy fast) so that you had no control
IE Someone says you useless hat-fucker and you get a bit mad right? Well no self control so instead of just thinking man I'd like to beat him up you would

That was nearly as nasty as the insanity one

[Kosh_The_Vorlon]

Hive viruses where NASTY
Naster than the Beast, as they spread faster than it can

Er..No, they can't, unless their spread is at lightspeed. It nearly took over a 5km mining vessel in a matter of moments, and can take over ISD-sized ships in about two seconds (Heavy Cruisers). Can a Hive virus do that?

[Mr Bean]

Er..No, they can't, unless their spread is at lightspeed. It nearly took over a 5km mining vessel in a matter of moments, and can take over ISD-sized ships in about two seconds (Heavy Cruisers). Can a Hive virus do that?

Hmm well the Katana fleet caught the virus then six hours later it had infected all 200 ships(Each one roughly 1/3 the size of an ISD) and killed the crew barley tweleve hours later... I'd call that fast
From infection to madness was only seven hours(They spent several hours mad from all indations before finaly dieing)

I'd call that fast...

[Guest]

Maybe hive viruses should go in the sci fi torture thread, then, eh? Infect, cure, infect, cure, rinse and repeat.

[Xon]

Er..No, they can't, unless their spread is at lightspeed. It nearly took over a 5km mining vessel in a matter of moments, and can take over ISD-sized ships in about two seconds (Heavy Cruisers). Can a Hive virus do that?

Hmm well the Katana fleet caught the virus then six hours later it had infected all 200 ships(Each one roughly 1/3 the size of an ISD) and killed the crew barley tweleve hours later... I'd call that fast
From infection to madness was only seven hours(They spent several hours mad from all indations before finaly dieing)

I'd call that fast...

That does spread fast. But the Hive virus is a very different creature to the Beast. The Hive virus sounds like a dumb non-sentient virus that just drives people mad, and eventually kills them. The Beast isnt like that.

[Mr Bean]

The Hive virus sounds like a dumb non-sentient virus that just drives people mad, and eventually kills them. The Beast isnt like that

Dumb, No Sentient?

Ok 100% Infection rate acoss 100% of species(So far it infects everyone and everything its been exposed to)

Oh and until a year or two after Papy came to power it also had a 100% Fataility rate too (They cured them then)

The point is though I don't care if the Beast is UBER god like intellgent, the BASCIS, the method of infection remains the same or similar to the Hive Viruses of Yor