Roy of Siegfreid and Roy Attacked by Tiger

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-04 04:29pm

Axis Kast wrote:Another strawman.

My argument is that the effect of an attack on humans by any animal is made worse when that animal is under significant levels of stress.

Of course, you define "stress" as "hearing loud noises 3 months ago".

That argument is bourne out by officials at Yellowstone National Park, whose staff regularly factor stress into the question of whether or not an aggressive animal should be put down.

No, it's a question of whether they feel the animal is a continued threat, because the animals they normally deal with (ie- bears) are not normally inclined to enter human-inhabited areas. It has nothing to do with tigers in cages, dumb-fuck.

By the way, let's review: you claim that the tiger will have lost some of its natural inhibition against biting humans if it heard loud noises 3 months ago. This obviously means that you think tigers have said inhibition, WHICH THEY DON'T. So yes, you think tigers aren't that dangerous until they're "stressed". Fucking moron ...

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-04 04:33pm

Of course, you define "stress" as "hearing loud noises 3 months ago".

It certainly covers living for over a month in substandard conditions, some of which was spent in the company of violent looters.

No, it's a question of whether they feel the animal is a continued threat, because the animals they normally deal with (ie- bears) are not normally inclined to enter human-inhabited areas. It has nothing to do with tigers in cages, dumb-fuck.

By the way, let's review: you claim that the tiger will have lost some of its natural inhibition against biting humans if it heard loud noises 3 months ago. This obviously means that you think tigers have said inhibition, WHICH THEY DON'T. So yes, you think tigers aren't that dangerous until they're "stressed". Fucking moron ...

Yellowstone's official websites confirm that stress is a factor in their calculations.

Bears will enter human zones routinely if food is left out. Hell, many human beings go looking for bears.

Again, strawman. I claim that stress will make the impact of an attack on humans - that would have happened no matter what - even worse.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-04 04:38pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Of course, you define "stress" as "hearing loud noises 3 months ago".
It certainly covers living for over a month in substandard conditions, some of which was spent in the company of violent looters.

For the umpteenth time, if you have a source for looters committing violence around the tiger's immediate vicinity in Baghdad, please provide it. Otherwise, you are hereby found guilty of 50 counts of repetitive bullshitting.

Yellowstone's official websites confirm that stress is a factor in their calculations.

Show that their definition of "stress" matches yours. For the hundredth fucking time, the "stress" they're talking about has to do with the likelihood that these uncaged animals will become a threat to the humans nearby.

Bears will enter human zones routinely if food is left out. Hell, many human beings go looking for bears.

No, bears tend to avoid humans under normal circumstances.

Again, strawman. I claim that stress will make the impact of an attack on humans - that would have happened no matter what - even worse.

And for the hundredth time, I ask for evidence of this claim as it applies to a tiger in a cage rather than a bear running around loose in a national park. You know? EVIDENCE? That thing that you've apparently never heard of? Try rummaging around your desk for it; it's probably right next to the evidence for Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-10-04 04:41pm

Macross wrote:They article does say that this was the tigers debut performance. It probably got spooked by the audiance and attacked.

FYI, a recent report on TV said that that was not the case. S&R said that as part of the act.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-04 06:36pm

For the umpteenth time, if you have a source for looters committing violence around the tiger's immediate vicinity in Baghdad, please provide it. Otherwise, you are hereby found guilty of 50 counts of repetitive bullshitting.

Some looters probably had guns. It's only common sense to assume that some of them fired off rounds in the zoo compound.

Some animals were literally removed from the area. It's only common sense to assume that they raised a common - which would have signaled danger to which natural tigers would react.

And none of this "proving a negative" crap. Your assertion by silence that the looting of the zoo was somehow orderly flies completely in the face of probability.

Show that their definition of "stress" matches yours. For the hundredth fucking time, the "stress" they're talking about has to do with the likelihood that these uncaged animals will become a threat to the humans nearby.

Then what does stress have to do with, Wong? I've already qualified stress: lack of food, poor living conditions, proximity of unusual persons causing major racket, regular bombardment over an extended period, and an inability to flee.

No, bears tend to avoid humans under normal circumstances.

Some bears will approach humans to forage for food.

And for the hundredth time, I ask for evidence of this claim as it applies to a tiger in a cage rather than a bear running around loose in a national park. You know? EVIDENCE? That thing that you've apparently never heard of? Try rummaging around your desk for it; it's probably right next to the evidence for Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons.

Stress doesn't apply to caged animals? That's a new one.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-04 08:48pm

Axis Kast wrote:
For the umpteenth time, if you have a source for looters committing violence around the tiger's immediate vicinity in Baghdad, please provide it. Otherwise, you are hereby found guilty of 50 counts of repetitive bullshitting.
Some looters probably had guns. It's only common sense to assume that some of them fired off rounds in the zoo compound.

Actually, they'd probably avoid shooting guns if they had them. They would probably be afraid (ironically) of spooking the animals. Unless two rival gangs met or American soldiers entered the zoo to fight the looters I'd be quite surprised to learn that any rounds were fired.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-10-04 08:50pm

I see Comical Axi continues to press his candidacy for Village Idiot.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-04 08:52pm

Is there any point to continuing to argue about this?

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-10-04 09:08pm

CelesKnight wrote:
Macross wrote:They article does say that this was the tigers debut performance. It probably got spooked by the audiance and attacked.
FYI, a recent report on TV said that that was not the case. S&R said that as part of the act.

Was it supposed to look like he was mauled and it got out of hand? Or were they taking on more of a "Jackass" approach to their performances?

Traceroute · Post by **Traceroute** » 2003-10-04 09:14pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Axis Kast wrote: Bears will enter human zones routinely if food is left out. Hell, many human beings go looking for bears.
No, bears tend to avoid humans under normal circumstances.

More of a side note, but in major US national parks, such as Yellowstone and Yosemite, bears have become very tolerant of humans. Bears in those parks don't go out of their way to find humans, but they do go out of their way to find human food. That's why you'll find a bear locker of inch thick steel in every campsite and a similar shroud of inch thick steel around every garbage container.

Hazings by rangers and efforts to educate visitors on the issue have started reversing the process.

There is no comparison between wild bears receiving minimal human intervention, and wild tigers trained to work with humans for years.

Finally, comparing two species that have different diets, evolved for different environments, etc. is a shaky proposition at best.

</tangent>

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-04 09:16pm

No he really did get bit, I think what CelesKnight meant is that the Tiger had already been prepared and trained to handle performance anxiety and that it was something else thatset off the Tiger.

Normally I disagree with the PETA people, but they make a point regarding SnR. Those two silly Germans have been breeding White Tigers and Lions exclusively and in order to that lots and lots of inbreeding has to be involved in order to guarantee success. The result are some fucked up Tigers.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-10-04 09:16pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:
CelesKnight wrote:
Macross wrote:They article does say that this was the tigers debut performance. It probably got spooked by the audiance and attacked.
FYI, a recent report on TV said that that was not the case. S&R said that as part of the act.
Was it supposed to look like he was mauled and it got out of hand? Or were they taking on more of a "Jackass" approach to their performances?

I honestly hope not given that even if the intention was something of more extreme...we're talking about Tigers here. Nice big cats with a tendency to swipe and bite.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-04 09:19pm

Which is why every feline species needs to be exterminated post-haste!

They don't care about you, they just see you as giant cans of alpo ready
to be clawed up and bit

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-10-04 09:26pm

MKSheppard wrote:Which is why every feline species needs to be exterminated post-haste!

They don't care about you, they just see you as giant cans of alpo ready
to be clawed up and bit

Ah Shep, talking out of your arse as usual.

My kitty would never harm me... right, kitty?

...

That hurts, kitty, please release my gonads from your claws... OW... hand me back my gonads now, kitty...

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-04 09:33pm

Actually, they'd probably avoid shooting guns if they had them. They would probably be afraid (ironically) of spooking the animals. Unless two rival gangs met or American soldiers entered the zoo to fight the looters I'd be quite surprised to learn that any rounds were fired.

... and yet these are the same people perfectly willing to reach in and remove most of the zoo's wild animals from their cages ...

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-10-04 09:40pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Actually, they'd probably avoid shooting guns if they had them. They would probably be afraid (ironically) of spooking the animals. Unless two rival gangs met or American soldiers entered the zoo to fight the looters I'd be quite surprised to learn that any rounds were fired.
... and yet these are the same people perfectly willing to reach in and remove most of the zoo's wild animals from their cages ...

Most of the wild animals are relatively harmless (if handled appropriately...a horse can kick, but it's pretty unlikely to). There would be a reason they left a large carnivore in its cage...perhaps because it's FUCKING DANGEROUS to handle?

Again, strawman. I claim that stress will make the impact of an attack on humans - that would have happened no matter what - even worse.

Just for clarification here: you are claiming that the stress an animal is under will alter the magnitude of its attack, not the fact that the attack occurred?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-04 10:36pm

They're still caged animals that the looters weren't trained to handle. If most people in Baghdad are having trouble supporting themselves as is, how intelligent is it to acquire a wild animal? It isn't as if there's a black market trade in monkeys.

Just for clarification here: you are claiming that the stress an animal is under will alter the magnitude of its attack, not the fact that the attack occurred?

Yes.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-04 10:38pm

Axis, there is a black market trade in Monkeys. Primates, especially endangered and protected species, have been an expensive item for years. Tamarins especially IIRC.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-10-04 10:42pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Axis, there is a black market trade in Monkeys. Primates, especially endangered and protected species, have been an expensive item for years. Tamarins especially IIRC.

There is also still a Black Market for Tiger parts and Elephant ivory.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-04 10:43pm

Darth Fanboy wrote:Axis, there is a black market trade in Monkeys. Primates, especially endangered and protected species, have been an expensive item for years. Tamarins especially IIRC.

GROUND MONKEY PENIS CURE YOUR SEXUAL ILLS!

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-04 10:56pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Fanboy wrote:Axis, there is a black market trade in Monkeys. Primates, especially endangered and protected species, have been an expensive item for years. Tamarins especially IIRC.
GROUND MONKEY PENIS CURE YOUR SEXUAL ILLS!

Ironically its not ground Monkey Penis, but Ground Tiger Penis for that particular remedy. Monkeys just make fun pets and they throw poo.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-10-04 11:27pm

Can we please have an update on Roy's condition? Last I heard was that he died from his injuries.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-10-04 11:29pm

EDIT: Google Is My Friend.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-10-04 11:38pm

Its kinda sad i heard that Sigfried and Roy are the best act in Vegas,even the bitch CD could`nt sell as much ticket as them.

and guys don`t ask me to write her full name she scares babies,damn walking pile-o-bones.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-04 11:39pm

Critical condition according to CNN.