Rogue or Wraith?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-10-04 05:38pm

Who do you prefer?
Rogue Squadeon(X-Wing novels: 1-4 and 8 ) or Wraith Squadron? (X-Wing novels5-7)

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-10-04 05:45pm

Wraith squadron. Allston did m uch better writing them than Stackpole did, and he actually *improved* on his work later on (compare Wraith Squadron to his later REbel Dream/Rebel Stand duology.)

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-10-04 06:23pm

Wraith squadron. If you are going to have a squadron of superheros, they have to be able to do the traditional superhero quips, and Rogue Squadron just doesn't have the knack.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-10-04 06:32pm

Wraiths. Much cooler. And Tom Phan's death in Iron Fist is just a good piece of writing.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-10-04 08:16pm

Maybe it is just because I don't have Rogue Squadron and Wedge's Gamble in the 9-part X-Wing novel series yet (I couldn't even find them, and I don't have a credit card so I can use Amazon to obtain them.)

IIRC, I was introduced to X-Wing novels, one way or another, in this order:
Bacta War (ugh, I don't even want to tell you how much I cringed even then at the vulnerability of capships ... one wonders why anyone builds capships at all by the time one finishes that novel. Rogue Squadorn is getting it way too easy, and one gets reminded that Yavin and even Endor was a much more even contest. My sympathies were with the Imperials throughout most of the book, which is not good when an author probably wants you to sympathize with the Rebellion.)
Starfighters of Adumar (no joke. But I enjoyed it. It was not really about the Rogues or about the Wraiths. I remember thinking how I felt Wedge actually got a bit of depth for the first time...)
Wedge's Gamble (I hadn't even read the whole book, just a glance.)
Iron Fist
Solo Command (by now I'm getting a real "connection" to Wraith Squadron. Somewhere around here, I read Wong's pages and got a little more serious.)
The Krytos Trap (it talks about Tycho's trial, but somehow I still don't feel very connected with Rogue Squadron.)
Isard's Revenge (nope, still nothing too deep here.)
Wraith Squadron (had to search high and low to get it only recently, but I definitely didn't regret it.)

When I think about Wedge, I think about Allston's interpretation of him, because that's the deepest impression I have! It goes without saying, therefore, that Allston's characters (the Wraiths) were so much more memorable.

I remember a lot more strategy being in Wraith Squadron books too.

I wonder whether Stackpole speed writing novels at 200 hours per novel (perhaps 1 hour per page) is the reason for its "shallowness."

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-04 09:30pm

I perfered Rouge over Wraith. Wraith just got too uber with me with the A-team impersonation. The 'Iron Fist' was a good one though but I still perfer the original series.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-10-04 10:13pm

And Rogue Squadron's A-team impersonation wasn't bad?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-10-04 11:10pm

Wraith Squadron was much stronger, literarily. Particularly the first two Rogue Squadron books were weak. Even though Stackpole occasionally writes a strong novel, he has invariably followed it up with a poor substitute for literature, and I despise Corran Horn.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-10-04 11:13pm

Wraith Squadron for a couple reasons:

1) The cast of characters was superior. They were deeper and you could connect to them a LOT better despite thier, obvious, pot-luck nature.

2) The writing. Allston was actually willing to sacrifice important characters. I say this because while Stackpole did kill off a few Rouges they were never really ones that you invested any emotion in. Allston killed off, arguably, one of his deepest characters and THAT makes the writing realisitc. Furthermore Allsotn makes you care about his characters more. The whole sub-plot with Myn was so well done that you can fell his anguish over what to do when confronted with the truth about Lara (IIRC, I forgot her cover name).

3) Action writing. Where Stackpole played with a rather snub-fighter wank fest of Rouge Squadorn destroying capships liek it was gravy Allston was different. He writes with a flair for the extreme danger it would have to be strapped into a tiny ball in the midst of thermonuclear fury to all sides.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-04 11:15pm

Wraith all the way, baby.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-10-04 11:38pm

Gara Petothel was Lara Notsil as an Imp. Kirney Slane as her post Wraith identity.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2003-10-05 12:11am

consequences wrote:Gara Petothel was Lara Notsil as an Imp. Kirney Slane as her post Wraith identity.

I thought one of her names was Lara. Anyway thanks

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-05 08:04am

Allstons books are readable, Stackpole's characters Suck.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-05 08:12am

*spoilers for Rogue and Wraith books*

I preferred the Wraith books. Allston gave time to each of the characters, rather than focusing on just a few (*cough*Corran*cough*Gavin*cough*) and then killed of some of the bigger characters (Phanaan). When Stackpole killed of Peshk(sp) in the first Rogue, I was like "Peshk? Which one was he again?", but when Allston killed of Jesmin in WS i knew who she was, same with Grinder and Falyn.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-10-05 08:29am

Wraith Squadron. Rogue Squadron had its moments though.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-10-05 08:34am

Yes Allston's killing off of certian charaters suprized me, When they died normaly I was in a state akin to shock(What? He/she is dead? Buut... but they had a sup-plot! People with sub-plots don't die! Espiclly when with its a main charater in a non-romatic way!)

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-10-05 12:32pm

I liked the fleet battles of the Wraith series. Rouge had this thing where less than two dozen fighters could take down an ISD without breaking a sweat. Why even build them if that were possible?

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-10-05 04:06pm

Wraith all the way. Good story, good characters. I liked the way Allston killed characters. Takes guts and good writing to kill off a beloved character and actually get loved more for it.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-10-05 04:52pm

The Wraiths actually had personalities. The Rogues where like "Meet Wedge, super pilot, now meet Corran Horn who is the Messiah Reborn, Now completely ignore all other 11 Squadrom mebrers it's all about Horn"

The Wrriths where funny, yet gritty and realistic. Ton and Face where a crackin pair and when Ton died it's the closest i ever came to crying whiule reading a book. All in all i cared, as a reader, about the Wraiths where as the Rogues where just there.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-10-05 04:55pm

Can the people who voted "rogue" tell us why here.

Agent R · Post by **Agent R** » 2003-10-05 04:55pm

The Wraiths have more fun and I like their name better.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-05 06:15pm

Also compare catchphrases:

Impossible is what Rogues do best

to

Nice place. What do we blow up first?

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-05 07:00pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Can the people who voted "rogue" tell us why here.

The A teamness of the Wraiths was not something I liked. Yes the Rouges had it in certain way but not as much of a defining characteristic as the Wraiths did. The only time the Rouges did it was their recon of Coruscant and when they went irregular in the Bacta War. The Wraiths were the A-team in design.

The Issard clone story line sucked ass.

The Ewok pilot, running joke, was dumb.

Antillies, while one of my favorite SW characters, seems to always be used as some super soldier. While he is a super pilot, I hate it when writters use him as a super soldier, a super secret agent, and a inflitrator or superior skill. If Wraith Squadron was written without Antillies as one of the main characters, I would have probably enjoyed it more.

The Nightcaller was an abortion of the venerable Corellian Corvette.

While I could probably make such a list for the first X wing novels about Rouge Squadron, I found that I enjoyed the original story arc better. Yes, it was dumb how a squadron of fighters could kill a capships. But Wraith has alot more annoying plot points (imo) than the other. That's why I voted for Rouges.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-10-05 08:29pm

Knife wrote:
The Issard clone story line sucked ass.

Excuse me? That was a Rogue Squadron plot, Not Wraith

The Ewok pilot, running joke, was dumb.

yes but Wedge pulling a Fraternity style prank on Janson was fuckin hilarious IMHO.

Antillies, while one of my favorite SW characters, seems to always be used as some super soldier. While he is a super pilot, I hate it when writters use him as a super soldier, a super secret agent, and a inflitrator or superior skill. If Wraith Squadron was written without Antillies as one of the main characters, I would have probably enjoyed it more.

True for the most part but I could see why he would go along considering he was in a squadron of chronic screwups and potential hazards, he was taking responsiility for his charges more so than being a super soldier.

The Nightcaller was an abortion of the venerable Corellian Corvette.

The NightCaller was adjusted to fit a specific Mission profile, this "abortion" as you call it was far more useful in its new form and could actually carry fighters. Plus the Corvette is a light capital ship that is realistic to capture, you would prefer Piggy had taken down a Nebulon B or VSD so easily?

While I could probably make such a list for the first X wing novels about Rouge Squadron, I found that I enjoyed the original story arc better. Yes, it was dumb how a squadron of fighters could kill a capships. But Wraith has alot more annoying plot points (imo) than the other. That's why I voted for Rouges.

Rogue Squadron's plot bordered on boring for the first three books, with the Bacta War being the only one of the first four I can read. If those 3 books were a TV show, it would always end with Ysanne Isard sitting Next to Dr. Claw in some secret fortress going "Ill Get you Gadget...errr....Rogue Squadron!"

and those annoying plot points Iyou dislike I do like because it lets you know that there are other things going along in characters live than just the fighting at hand.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-05 08:44pm

Excuse me? That was a Rogue Squadron plot, Not Wraith

It was reveled in the Wraith series that she was a clone. I always hate it when the find a BS way to bring back a villian. I didn't like it when Palpy returned and I didn't like it when they resurected Issard. My opinion, but thats what this thread is, isn't it.

yes but Wedge pulling a Fraternity style prank on Janson was fuckin hilarious IMHO.

Hmm, while I did dislike the Ewok, yub yub shit, the interactions between Wedge and Janson were good. I'll agree with you there.

The NightCaller was adjusted to fit a specific Mission profile, this "abortion" as you call it was far more useful in its new form and could actually carry fighters. Plus the Corvette is a light capital ship that is realistic to capture, you would prefer Piggy had taken down a Nebulon B or VSD so easily?

A supposedly ~150 meter ship capable of carring a squad of snub fighters is dumb. To make it work, you have to say that there is a larger ship out there that looks exactly like a Corellian Corvette but isn't. And yes, they should have captured (if they wished to use a cannon starship) a larger vessel to use as a mobile base of operations. They should have gotten Rebulic Intell or Spec Ops to help them capture a larger vessel. But then they'd need to have support teams to run it.

Oh, and thanks for reminding me about Piggy. I disliked this premace too.

Rogue Squadron's plot bordered on boring for the first three books, with the Bacta War being the only one of the first four I can read. If those 3 books were a TV show, it would always end with Ysanne Isard sitting Next to Dr. Claw in some secret fortress going "Ill Get you Gadget...errr....Rogue Squadron!"

and those annoying plot points Iyou dislike I do like because it lets you know that there are other things going along in characters live than just the fighting at hand.

Matter of opinion, I suppose. I feel pretty much the exact opposite.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Rogue or Wraith?

Rogue or Wraith?

Rogue or Wraith?

Definitely the Allston works