Future trends in firearms?

[Sea Skimmer]

You heard wrong. DU is considerably more dense as well.

Nope, there almost exactly the same. DU just got used because it was cheeper really, but more recently tungsten became cheeper causing the US and British militaries to switch over for new ammo, this of course caused much additional bullshit amoung the "DU is evil, the truth is being hideen" camp.

[Nathan F]

How exactly do hollowpoints work? Are they literally hollowed-out points filled with explosives?

No. A hollowpoint simply is just that, a lead round with a copper or brass jacket partially enclosign the round. The tip of the bullet is 'dug out' to cause greater expansion on impact. No explosives are involved.

[MarkIX]

I heard that the switch was due to reduced production cost brought about by more effective machining techniques not to the actual reduction of the cost of tungsten is that what you mean?

[Master of Ossus]

I heard that the switch was due to reduced production cost brought about by more effective machining techniques not to the actual reduction of the cost of tungsten is that what you mean?

Well, yeah. Tungsten has always been relatively common and easy to mine, but its machining costs have been extremely high due to its unusually high melting point and hardness, which makes it impossible to cut and drill conventionally. Recent developments have made manufacturing with tungsten FAR easier, and has of course had the effect of reducing costs while increasing production.

[Shinova]

But tungsten doesn't combust upon contact with air like DU does, does it?

[Sea Skimmer]

But tungsten doesn't combust upon contact with air like DU does, does it?

DU doesn't combust on contact with air in the first place. Though while piercing heavy armor it gets extremely hot, as does steel and any other form of AP shell mind you, and it will easily start fires as a result. This has lead to various myths about DU exploding or bursting into flames after hitting a tank, and it's simply not true.

[Master of Ossus]

But tungsten doesn't combust upon contact with air like DU does, does it?

Erm... what? Tungsten is damn near non-reactive. That's part of what it so hard to come up with proper industrial processes to work with it. Tungsten simply does not combust at any remotely reasonable temperatures. I'm not entirely sure that DU does combust, though. It almost certainly OXIDIZES, but that's not combustion.

[Howedar]

You heard wrong. DU is considerably more dense as well.

Nope, there almost exactly the same. DU just got used because it was cheeper really, but more recently tungsten became cheeper causing the US and British militaries to switch over for new ammo, this of course caused much additional bullshit amoung the "DU is evil, the truth is being hideen" camp.

Erm, I thought DU was of roughly similar density to normal isotopes of Uranium.

[Utsanomiko]

hmmm depends on how far ahead you set it and how advanced you mke the setting. Self targeting 3mm railguns firing darts at 4000 mps((meters per second)) are possible(( and old CP2020 fans will know where I got this one from)).

Smart bullets may be used(( think smart bomb only a .50 cal rifles fires em))

we may see the return of the .30 cal round but then again we may see something totaslly different.Liquid propellant rifles battery in thestock explodes the liquid for firing and the soldier can set the estimated range he wants on the rifle using the "Land Warrior"tm gear


Grenades may change as well more aerodynamic shapes for offensive grenades may happen or posibly *L8 the grenade chucker seen in Tiberian sun

Note to Arthur_Tuxedo: I highly recommend you don't include this kind of stuff in our upcoming early 21st century-era RPG.

*Goes back to looking for butterfly knives and upcoming handgun models*

[Zed Snardbody]

Something you may want to read about the M-4. Makes me wonder.

http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html

[Admiral Valdemar]

It's a round that induces pressure on the hollow tip upon impact which the fractures and fragments into numerous smaller pieces with devastating effect in the body.

BS.

Hollowpoints literally unroll, and DOUBLE the size of the bullet, creating
horrific wound cavities.

Like this:



the round is streamlined during flight, which is good for hitting your
target, and once you hit the target, the round unrolls, doubling the
bullet area, and causing much more massive wounds.

So I guess Sea Skimmer is wrong as well, Shep. From what I hear, hollowpoints can and do shatter, not just "unroll".

[The Dark]

Something you may want to read about the M-4. Makes me wonder.

http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html

Interesting how the biggest complaint for lethality was with the pistol. I remember my cousin commenting that 9mm was too small for a military sidearm, and that the line soldier wouldn't like it. I hadn't realized the IBA was that useful, either. I imagine that after that loader got hit and was uninjured, the other turret guys began hunting down body armor of their own.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The brought in the Beretta 9mm because of the many new female recruits and ammo compliance rules, didn't they?

[CmdrWilkens]

Something you may want to read about the M-4. Makes me wonder.

http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html

That's about what I thought. The M-4 got glowing reviews for ease of operation and performance. THey liked it in close quarters but didn't feel like they could hit targets at range. That's pretty much a perfect description of the M-4. Iits also the reason why the fireteam level has the SAW (which also got good reviews) so they can engage longer range targets.

[Howedar]

The brought in the Beretta 9mm because of the many new female recruits and ammo compliance rules, didn't they?

NATO commonality was pretty much the overriding reason, IIRC.

[CmdrWilkens]

The brought in the Beretta 9mm because of the many new female recruits and ammo compliance rules, didn't they?

NATO commonality was pretty much the overriding reason, IIRC.

It was the ONLY reason pretty much. However some stocks of 1911A1s are still maintained and issued to select USMC units so the switch hasn't been total.

[Admiral Valdemar]

The brought in the Beretta 9mm because of the many new female recruits and ammo compliance rules, didn't they?

NATO commonality was pretty much the overriding reason, IIRC.

It was the ONLY reason pretty much. However some stocks of 1911A1s are still maintained and issued to select USMC units so the switch hasn't been total.

Ah, thought it was chiefly the ammo thing. I do hear the 9mm is more forgiving to recruits who aren't used to the higher calibre pistols.

[Alyeska]

Something you may want to read about the M-4. Makes me wonder.

http://www.sftt.org/article06102003a.html

Not very suprising. The M4 is a fairly well built Urban Combat rifle. It is easy to carry and can deal with most situations. However, it is lacking when it comes to range. This is where the M16 and even the M14s come into play. Equiping all soldiers with one rifle is stupid. Equiping soldiers with a variety of weapons gives flexibility. Some M4s for urban combat, M16s for general assault and M14s for long range combat and firepower.

IMO the military ought to try and design a new 7.62mm rifle for special issue. Use new technology and lessons learned in the past to create a good high powered assault rifle.

[Alyeska]

The brought in the Beretta 9mm because of the many new female recruits and ammo compliance rules, didn't they?

NATO commonality was pretty much the overriding reason, IIRC.

It was the ONLY reason pretty much. However some stocks of 1911A1s are still maintained and issued to select USMC units so the switch hasn't been total.

Nice thing about the US military is it tends to keep older weapon designs around in fair numbers for situations that might call for them. This is why the M1911, M14, and M3 are still capable of being equiped with soldiers when the situation calls for it.

[Sea Skimmer]

It was the ONLY reason pretty much. However some stocks of 1911A1s are still maintained and issued to select USMC units so the switch hasn't been total.

But those pistols had to be partly rebuilt as I recall. While a lot of M1911's are still in stock, most are worn out and really couldn't be issued. Course, we could always buy more.

[MKSheppard]

So I guess Sea Skimmer is wrong as well, Shep. From what I hear, hollowpoints can and do shatter, not just "unroll".

That's what we call "frangible" rounds.

[Knife]

Hmmm, the future....

Percision and CCC compatibility for smaller units and their equipment.

Expect 'land warrior' esq systems to be incorperated into battlefield gear including weapon systems. With the success of various NVG and GPS systems and/or the fact that troops bought their own NVG and GPS devices, expect future weapon systems to either incorperate these features or provide ready rails to quickly install such equipment.

I truely expect with in the next five to ten years to have intergrated weapon systems and user interfaces such as helmets and HUD's to provide the ability of night vision, land nav, and target identification. And when thats all done, have the infomation linked to a commander that he compiles and gets a big picture of the battlefield. Armor units already have this, as do arial units. Now its the infantry's turn to develope man portable systems of the like.

Percision seems to be the buzz word of late. Expect new systems (ala XM-29) that can take a range via laser or other method and give the range to the munition as to radicly increase accuracy. Anti material rounds turned into area weapons such as small gernades, will slowly encroach into alot of weapons.

I don't expect the size of ammo to increase any unless a weapon like the XM-29 is deployed. Then you'll see 20mm and 25mm, but 5.56 for small arms and 7.67 for LMG's and MMG's will probably stall consistent unless a radical new design comes along.

[MKSheppard]

Hmmm, the future....
Expect 'land warrior' esq systems to be incorperated into battlefield gear including weapon systems. With the success of various NVG and GPS systems and/or the fact that troops bought their own NVG and GPS devices, expect future weapon systems to either incorperate these features or provide ready rails to quickly install such equipment.

Or just develop an all in one unit that runs off a rechargeable lithum
battery that you can plug into your tracks' electrical system to
recharge, rather than having our troops have to resight ever
individual piece of equipment on their M-16s one by one...or have
to carry around a few pounds of AAA batteries

[Knife]

Hmmm, the future....
Expect 'land warrior' esq systems to be incorperated into battlefield gear including weapon systems. With the success of various NVG and GPS systems and/or the fact that troops bought their own NVG and GPS devices, expect future weapon systems to either incorperate these features or provide ready rails to quickly install such equipment.

Or just develop an all in one unit that runs off a rechargeable lithum
battery that you can plug into your tracks' electrical system to
recharge, rather than having our troops have to resight ever
individual piece of equipment on their M-16s one by one...or have
to carry around a few pounds of AAA batteries

Point, though I have carried around a few pounds of either nickle or lithium batteries for PRC-77's. Whats the difference between five pounds of AAA or five pounds of lithium?

I would expect though, that the Land Nav/GPS equipment might be located elsewhere than the actual weapon and have a wireless feed to the weapon and to the the comm unit to uplink to command.

However, a laser range finder/designator and NVG system would/could be one unit located on the weapon.

Personally, I don't think systems like the 'Land Warrior' that link every fucking thing together are necessary. A GPS unit and comm unit linking info up the chain is about all that the individual soldier/Marine needs to be transmitting. Range and visual feed in not needed and IMO is a tech wank senerio. The individual soldier/Marine could use the info but the NVG and range finder equipment doesn't need to be linked to a transmitter and only increases the complexity and weight of the system.

[MKSheppard]

Point, though I have carried around a few pounds of either nickle or lithium batteries for PRC-77's. Whats the difference between five pounds of AAA or five pounds of lithium?

Because you can carry less lithum because it's rechargeable, and
you don't have to have a steady supply of AAA batteries (i've read
that all that gearuses up the AAA batteries in it on average of once
a night.)

I would expect though, that the Land Nav/GPS equipment might be located elsewhere than the actual weapon and have a wireless feed to the weapon and to the the comm unit to uplink to command.

*Slaps Knife*

You want to put a GPS system that shows your LOCATION on wireless? Nuh huh. Can we say enemy SIGINT?

However, a laser range finder/designator and NVG system would/could be one unit located on the weapon.

That would indeed be very cool/good. All you'd have to do is look at
the target and push a button on your NVGs to lase it for the air strike.

Personally, I don't think systems like the 'Land Warrior' that link every fucking thing together are necessary.

I agree, whenever I hear people talk about digitalizing the
battlefield or making precision munitions down at ever decreasing
scale such as 81mm mortar rounds, I roll my eyes.

The entire point of a mortar is lightweight, cheep firepower, and
adding all that stuff to a mortar round decreses the explosive charge,
and adds in the factor of being damaged in transit...it's very hard
to damage a simple fuze, but laser guidance systems....uhm...
not very soldier proof.