Federation Shuttle Craft vs Omega Class Destroyers

[Alyeska]

Yes Voyager had microtorpedoes...on the Delta Flyer Considering that it has trouble fitting in Voyager's shuttle bay, I think it's clearly not a standard shuttle.

And just because most people think a ST ship can whoop a B5 ship does not make it true. Most people seem to think ST can whoop SW after all

There was a particular episode in which Voyager was smuggling Teeps on their ship, and at the very end they give over two shuttles and you see one of the shuttles fire off 3-4 micro torpedoes before moving into an anomoly of some sort.

According to what I see people throwing around here (2mt and the Blackstar), seems the general consensus and general information indicates that ST can for the most part kick the crap out of B5. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it false.

[Alyeska]

Theoretically the Runabout can be equiped with a fullsized Torpedo launcher that can hold 4 torpedoes. DS9 TM, but never shown.

Which is not offical and just plain redicius for the obvious size limitations

Unless they have the Hony I Shrunk the Kids Shrinking and Reversing Rays handy the problem is TWO torps are bigger than the combined volume of the entire Shuttlecraft....

Actually the DS 9 episdoe "The Maquis" has runabouts and raiders firing phototorps. I think they even make it clear that these are the regualar varitey. However it should be noted that these are actually pretty big craft.

Those are micro torpedoes and they were only fired from the Tac-Fighters. If you compare the size of the torpedo to the cockpits of either ship you will note the size. Those were clearly not full sized torpedoes.

[RayCav of ASVS]

Yes Voyager had microtorpedoes...on the Delta Flyer Considering that it has trouble fitting in Voyager's shuttle bay, I think it's clearly not a standard shuttle.

And just because most people think a ST ship can whoop a B5 ship does not make it true. Most people seem to think ST can whoop SW after all

There was a particular episode in which Voyager was smuggling Teeps on their ship, and at the very end they give over two shuttles and you see one of the shuttles fire off 3-4 micro torpedoes before moving into an anomoly of some sort.

According to what I see people throwing around here (2mt and the Blackstar), seems the general consensus and general information indicates that ST can for the most part kick the crap out of B5. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it false.

As much as I hate Voyager....

anyway, what makes you say those shuttles weren't heavily modified? Granted, I suppose similar modifications can be done back home. The fact remains, microtorps or not shuttlecraft would still make poor fighters.

Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken wasn't there a thread somewhere here that stated that the 2MT thing might be a fallacy? And I stand by the accepted figures of low yeild phaser strips, which means at the very least Trek ships would have to engage with phototorps. Judging by the fact that we only see very frequent phototorp use by DS 9, it would seem as if phaser combat is the preferred method.

[Alyeska]

Yes Voyager had microtorpedoes...on the Delta Flyer Considering that it has trouble fitting in Voyager's shuttle bay, I think it's clearly not a standard shuttle.

And just because most people think a ST ship can whoop a B5 ship does not make it true. Most people seem to think ST can whoop SW after all

There was a particular episode in which Voyager was smuggling Teeps on their ship, and at the very end they give over two shuttles and you see one of the shuttles fire off 3-4 micro torpedoes before moving into an anomoly of some sort.

According to what I see people throwing around here (2mt and the Blackstar), seems the general consensus and general information indicates that ST can for the most part kick the crap out of B5. Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it false.

As much as I hate Voyager....

anyway, what makes you say those shuttles weren't heavily modified? Granted, I suppose similar modifications can be done back home. The fact remains, microtorps or not shuttlecraft would still make poor fighters.

Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken wasn't there a thread somewhere here that stated that the 2MT thing might be a fallacy? And I stand by the accepted figures of low yeild phaser strips, which means at the very least Trek ships would have to engage with phototorps. Judging by the fact that we only see very frequent phototorp use by DS 9, it would seem as if phaser combat is the preferred method.

In other words you admit to using low yeild figures for ST while using high yield figures for SW. You are applying a double standard to the debates you take part in, and therefor there is little point debating any firepower figures with you.

[corporial]

I think that the shuttles will be screwed. 15 Omegas each carry 36 fighters making a grand total of 540 fighters. Assuming that only 40 of the total fighters (a very conservative number) are thunderbolts, then there will be a total of 240-400 fusion missiles ready to launch. If half of the fighters are thunderbolts then there could be up to 2700 fusion missiles for the shuttles to deal with...

[RayCav of ASVS]

In other words you admit to using low yeild figures for ST while using high yield figures for SW. You are applying a double standard to the debates you take part in, and therefor there is little point debating any firepower figures with you.

Hehe, Mr. (Ms?) Trekkie is trying to turn the tables on me

We ran some cals on ASVS and got a high yeild of 21 MT on phototorps, if I'm not mistaken. However, the energy imparted is only 10.5 MT since it's a spherical explosion. Hell, I think the SD.net technology page has this figure!

And not once have I even mentioned SW firepower, considering how this is a ST vs. B5 debate anyway!

[seanrobertson]

Clearly, you and I must have not been watching the same movie. I recall the scout ship maneuvering to avoid phototorps, but I don't really even recall it usuing any weapons whatsoever.

The scout ship fired photorps at the Son'a command ship. One
of the flunkies on the bridge said, "Photon torpedo [incoming!",
then the ship rocked. We saw it rock a no. of other times, so it
must've been hit by more than one weapon discharge.

Additionally, what makes you think that the shuttle had the same weapons suite? Just by judging size? An F-16 and a Piper Meridian are roughly about the same size; does that mean they carry the same weapons? (HINT: The Piper carries no weapons) You'd think a scout ship would have a better weapons suite than a lowly shuttle. There really isn't any need for phasers on a shuttle anyway, and I can't really recall an instance where shuttles even had phasers (only runabouts and similar vessels)

Some shuttles do have phasers. The shuttle in VGR's "Future's End pt.
II" had phasers.

Furthermore, we have never seen an instance when a shuttle has carried microtorpedoes.

See above, though it depends on your definition of shuttle...I consider
the scout ship and Runabouts shuttles.

Finally, if it turns out that the Scout Ship did successfully engage Sona Destroyers, well then, that merely shows the weakness of Trek cap ships

Nah, it didn't really engage it as such; it caught them with their pants
down. Besides, there was nothing to indicate that the command
ship had any teeth to speak of. It was a pretty small capship.

[Alyeska]

In other words you admit to using low yeild figures for ST while using high yield figures for SW. You are applying a double standard to the debates you take part in, and therefor there is little point debating any firepower figures with you.

Hehe, Mr. (Ms?) Trekkie is trying to turn the tables on me

We ran some cals on ASVS and got a high yeild of 21 MT on phototorps, if I'm not mistaken. However, the energy imparted is only 10.5 MT since it's a spherical explosion. Hell, I think the SD.net technology page has this figure!

And not once have I even mentioned SW firepower, considering how this is a ST vs. B5 debate anyway!

No, that is not a high yield. High yield involves taking TDIC and assuming the first volley destroyed 30% of the entire planets crust.

[Darth Wong]

No, that is not a high yield. High yield involves taking TDIC and assuming the first volley destroyed 30% of the entire planets crust.

Are you still on that weird kick about how an upper limit can be derived by deliberately choosing to use absurd interpretations which fly in the face of reason and science?

Upper and lower limits are dictated by the nature of the situation. One does not take a situation, interpret it in some insane fashion which completely disregards the situation, and then declare that to be a high estimate; such a number is an arbitrary figure with no relation to fact.

None of the TDiC monster-cult has ever been able to successfully perform a thermodynamic energy balance on the event by using their interpretation, since they cannot observe the quantities of energetic matter that they should be seeing. The right side of the equation is simply not high enough for the left side that they propose. In short, they override observation with theory and semantics, and wonder why no one agrees with them.

[RayCav of ASVS]

In other words you admit to using low yeild figures for ST while using high yield figures for SW. You are applying a double standard to the debates you take part in, and therefor there is little point debating any firepower figures with you.

Hehe, Mr. (Ms?) Trekkie is trying to turn the tables on me

We ran some cals on ASVS and got a high yeild of 21 MT on phototorps, if I'm not mistaken. However, the energy imparted is only 10.5 MT since it's a spherical explosion. Hell, I think the SD.net technology page has this figure!

And not once have I even mentioned SW firepower, considering how this is a ST vs. B5 debate anyway!

No, that is not a high yield. High yield involves taking TDIC and assuming the first volley destroyed 30% of the entire planets crust.

No, that is called being a moron.

[Alyeska]

I never said high end calculations were reasonable. I just stated that as an example of high end. Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

[RayCav of ASVS]

I never said high end calculations were reasonable. I just stated that as an example of high end. Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

You mean how using only "canon" evidence (READ: dialouge, which you Trekkies seem to think is canon) how ASVS derived that a single ISD can blast a planet Alderaan style by itself?

[Alyeska]

I never said high end calculations were reasonable. I just stated that as an example of high end. Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

You mean how using only "canon" evidence (READ: dialouge, which you Trekkies seem to think is canon) how ASVS derived that a single ISD can blast a planet Alderaan style by itself?

And I wonder where you get the strange idea that dialouge isn't canon.

[Mr Bean]

Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

*Scratchs head, Who does this now?

[Alyeska]

Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

*Scratchs head, Who does this now?

No one seriously uses the figures, but I have seen them floating around where you can say an ISD is 1/1000 the power of the DS super laser. Any sane person doesn't use the figures, just as any sane person doesn't use the highest end trek figures. It does show however that there are canon instances all over the spectrum.

[Mr Bean]

Yes, At least Shield Strengths are easy to calcuate, the lastest just shy of 16 Teratons

Minium low end mind you, I hope an ISD as it would in Isards Revenge, Bacta War, The Zahn triology, His Dueology and the other fine books of the EU would be able to take a SINGLE broadside from its own guns (15.8 Teratons counting mearly HTLs and MTLs assuming that HTLs are no more than the 200 gigatons of MTLS which scalling places the Acclimators heavy Guns and the ISDs are the near exact same size though the ISDs MTLs are BIGGER and the HTLs Bigger still

[RayCav of ASVS]

I never said high end calculations were reasonable. I just stated that as an example of high end. Just like deriving ISD firepower based on DS firepower.

You mean how using only "canon" evidence (READ: dialouge, which you Trekkies seem to think is canon) how ASVS derived that a single ISD can blast a planet Alderaan style by itself?

And I wonder where you get the strange idea that dialouge isn't canon.

I wouldn't know, it's you Trekkies who do it routinely after all....

[Typhonis 1]

I never saidMicrotorps hadhal thefirepower of a normal torp my base damage figure is for a standard torp 1.5kg of antimatter

[Alyeska]

You mean how using only "canon" evidence (READ: dialouge, which you Trekkies seem to think is canon) how ASVS derived that a single ISD can blast a planet Alderaan style by itself?

And I wonder where you get the strange idea that dialouge isn't canon.

I wouldn't know, it's you Trekkies who do it routinely after all....

Please point out one that has claimed Dialouge isn't canon.

[Darth Wong]

Please point out one that has claimed Dialouge isn't canon.

TheDarkling insists that the small verbal range figures called out in "Elaan of Troyius" should be ignored. Does that count?

[Alyeska]

Please point out one that has claimed Dialouge isn't canon.

TheDarkling insists that the small verbal range figures called out in "Elaan of Troyius" should be ignored. Does that count?

Yep