Well, the response wasn't too good on SB, so I'll try it here and see what I get. Assume equal pilots - no superpilots like Max are around. NO anime physics other than what lets the VF-1 actually work.
Scenario 1: Four F/A-22s, each armed with four FRAAM (AMRAAM with a ramjet) and four AIM-9Xs (all internal) are vectored in by an E-777 to intercept a flight of four VF-1s, which have an EC-33B controlling them. The Valkyries have a standard warload on them.
Scenario 2: An E-2D AWACS detects an incoming strike package gunning for the carrier group. Four Super Tomcat 21s ("F-14E") armed with the 4 AIM-155 Advanced Air to Air Missile (ramjet, home-on-jam, IIR and active radar seeker in one), 2 FRAAM and 2 AIM-9X are sent to intercept.
Scenario 3: Ground controllers vector in a flight of refueled F-35s against a retreating VF-1 group. The F-35s are the USMC varient and armed with a tactical laser but have expended all but two AIM-9Xs. The VF-1s have a pair of Stilletos remaining.
Scenario 4: A pair of AL-1 airborne laser aircraft and E-767 are on patrol when their CAP is stripped away in a furious attack. Six VF-1s gun in the the converted airliners.
Scenario 5: Three ANG F-108 interceptors is vectored in by NORAD to intercept an incoming attack. They are armed with four AIM-155 and two FRAAM, no 'winders.
Scenario 6: A Russian A-50 AWACs sees incoming Valks and has MiG-31s move in to stop them.
Scenario 7: A NATO E-3 tracks unknown fighters moving in towards the United Kingdom. Eurofighter Typhoons are scrambled and armed with the Meteor medium-ranged missile and ASRAAM.
VF-1A vs...
Moderator: NecronLord
For those interested, here are the stats for the VF-1 series, as it is presented in the Macross Compendium (yes, this info is considered canon):
GOVERNMENT: UNITED NATIONS
MANUFACTURER: STONEWELL/BELLCOM
STONEWELL/BELLCOM VF-1 VALKYRIE
TYPE: All-environ variable fighter and tactical combat battroid.
PROGRAMME: Tentative plan introduced for all-environ variable combat system for use against giants February 2002. UN Forces' basic requirement for system to incorporate aerospace fighting capability equal to the level of contemporary fighters and ground comabt capability comparable to Destroid series. Development began with United Nation Forces contract to Stonewell and Bellcom; Stonewell and Bellcom solicited the powerplant producer Shinnakasu Heavy Industry (co-developer of reaction engines) and ground weaponry maker Centinental (co-developer of Destroid series) as partners; development team completed basic design 2005; one non-transformable VF-X flight test machine and one transformable VF-X-1 produced; first flight February 2007; space-worthiness tests begin in June 2007. Decision made to formally introduce the VF-X1 November 2007.
Development and mass production of operational VF-1A started November 2007. Deployment begins on CVS-101 Prometheus carrier August 2008 (However, usage is limited to Fighter mode only). Total initial strength on SDF-1 Macross at space launch ceremony 1 February 2009: 212 VF-1 Valkyries. First operational deployment in Space War I's Battle of South Ataria Island the same day. First operational deployment of Protect-Weapon-system-equipped Valkyrie in space combat October 2009. First operational deployment of FAST-Pack-equipped Valkyrie in combat January 2010. Production resumed after Space War I at surviving parts plants in the space colonies and on the Lunar surface's Apollo Base August 2011. At the end of the 2015, production of the VF-1 series ended with the rollout of the final VF-1 in a commemorative ceremony. Scheduled to be replaced as main variable fighter by VF-4 Lightning III in 2020.
VARIANTS:
VF-X: Non-transformable variable-wing flight test version.
VF-X-1: Transformable prototype developmental version.
VF-1A: Standard UN Spacy version manufactured by licensee Northrom. One head-turret-mounted RÖV-20 laser gun.
VF-1B: VF-1A version upgraded by the "Half-S" retrofit (overhauled avionics and S-type head unit).
VF-1D: Two-seater version. Two RÖV-20 laser guns and two TV camera eye systems.
VF-1J: Version manufactured by licensee Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and assigned to air team and squadron leaders. Two RÖV-20 laser guns on improved Kyuusei-Industry-designed head unit. The out-of-sequence "J" designation is believed to represent the abbreviation of the region of its origin.
VF-1S: Version manufactured in limited numbers by licensee Northrom and assigned to squadron leaders and CAGs. Four RÖV-20 laser guns, enhanced avionics identical to VF-1A's Block 12 design, newly-redesigned Kyuusei Industry head turret, improved FF-2001D engine with greater engine thrust.
VF-1X: Modernized version with completely upgraded materials, avionics and power plants.
VEFR-1: Two-seater version with detection and electronic equipment for reconnaisance, ECM, and ECCM missions. This version includes a rotary overhead radome, electronic surveillance pod mounted on the arm,detection equipment in the wing, and retractable detectors in lieu of hands.
VT-1: Two-seater trainer version, manufactured by licensee Northrom, normally equipped with Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NR-BP-T1 FAST Pack booster variant with enlarged propellant tanks and no missile pods, NR-FB-T1 conformal tanks, NP-AU-T1 arm units with no micro-missiles
VT-1C: Version produced for civilian use
VE-1: Two-seater version similar to VT-1 with Shinnakasu Heavy Industry early warning and electronic warfare pack developed in cooperation with Bifors, which includes NR-BP-E2 FAST Pack booster variant with rotary radome; NR-SR-E3 (right) and NR-SL-E3 (left) arm-mounted containers with HF, VHF, and VLF antennae; and two NR-FS-E3 attachments with side surveillance radar systems.
Note: Machines upgraded to block 5 or higher specifications were renamed Plus (e.g. VF-1A Plus).
CUSTOMERS: UNS, UNN, UNSAF.
COSTS: Not publicly disclosed, but reported to be about 20 times that of a standard Destroid.
DESIGN FEATURES: VG wing; VTOL capability; CCV structure; four times the mobility of the Destroid Spartan; single-axis thrust vectoring; three "magic hand" manipulators for maintenance use; option of GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system, atmospheric-escape booster system, or FAST Pack space booster and weaponry system.
FLYING CONTROLS: Fly-by-light, two-section flap (with spoiler) and fowler flap occupy almost entire wing trailing-edge; leading-edge slats; conventional rudders in outward-canted vertical tail surfaces; two slits located on forward main body in Fighter mode operate in lieu of glove vanes by controlling airflow; two-dimensional vectored thrust nozzles operate in lieu of conventional elevators and horizontal stabilizers and in tandem with wing thruster roll control system; four Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 high-thrust vernier thrusters; eighteen P&W LHP04 low-thrust vernier thrusters beneath multipurpose hook/handles; one counter reverse vernier thruster nozzle on the side of each leg nacelle air intake; large airbrake directly rear of cockpit canopy (nozzle feet operate as airbrakes also); one ventral fin under each engine nacelle.
LANDING GEAR: Retractable tricycle undercarriage. Two steerable nosewheels retract rearward into nose and twin coupled mainwheels inward into fuselage. Two arresting hooks mounted underfuselage on engine nacelles.
POWER PLANT: Two Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, each rated at 11500 kg [x g] class (23000 kg [x g] in overboost) and 650 MW in generation power. Engines generate 17,680 PS during ground combat, or 956 PS/t with standard take-off mass. The VF-1S version has Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001D engines. The VF-1X Plus has Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2079J thermonuclear turbine engines, each rated at 15000 kg [x g] class. The VT-1C has custom tuned Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 engines, each rated at approximately 10000 kg [x g] class. Two-dimensional convergent/divergent exhaust nozzles, for enhanced V/STOL performance and manoeuvrability. Rectangular underfuselage air intake with retractable cover in Battroid mode or space use. Four Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 high-thrust vernier thrusters. Eighteen P&W LHP04 low-thrust vernier thrusters beneath multipurpose hook/handles. One counter reverse vernier thruster nozzle on the side of each leg nacelle air intake. Fluid pulse actuators enable transformation. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system with two assist thrusters; atmospheric-escape booster system with four 22500 kg [x g] class conventional rocket engines; or Shinnakasu Heavy Industry FAST Pack space booster system with two 120000 kg [x g] class (for 150 seconds at maximum thrust) P&W+EF-2001 booster thrusters, two leg/engine-pod-mounted CTB-04 conformal propellant tanks (for both propellant and coolant), and numerous high-manoeuvrability vernier thrusters in two dorsal-mounted NP-BP-01 (NP-BP-T1 on VT-1, NR-NP-E3 on VE-1) and two leg/engine-pod-mounted NP-FB-01 (NP-FB-T1 on VT-1, NR-FS-E3 on VE-1) systems. The VT-1's FAST Pack space booster variant includes enhanced vernier thrusters and an additional tail unit booster.
ACCOMMODATION: Pilot only in Marty & Beck Mk-7 zero/zero ejection seat. VF-1D, VEFR-1, VT-1, and VE-1 each have two seats. Pressurized upward-hinged canopy with retractable shield for Battroid mode and atmospheric reentry use; central column controller, throttle, and two GERWALK arm controller sticks in Fighter/GERWALK mode cockpit of Block 5 or earlier machines. Each GERWALK and Battroid arm controller contains five tapets and one ball controller to control the fingers, palm and thumb. Side-stick controller and multi-position throttle lever/stick in Fighter/GERWALK mode cockpit of Block 6 or later machines. Both side-stick and throttle have six tapets to control the fingers and palm. Two rear (back) mirrors. Block 5 and earlier machines were upgraded to Block 6 specifications with improved cockpit and Mk-7 Custom ejection seat.
AVIONICS: HUD (displayed on transparent panels in block 5 or earlier machines, on canopy in Block 6 or later machines); hexagonal three-panel main screen in block 5 or earlier machines, octagonal one-panel main screen in Block 6 or later machines; IFF antenna, UHF antenna, and AWG-20 radar FCS in nosecone; head-turret-mounted hybrid sensor/TV camera eye system and radar sensor dome with rear periscope; VHF antenna in vertical stabilizer, and EC and retractable VHF antenna in vernier tail pack (extended in GERWALK mode); IFF/UHF datalink antenna and TACAN/UHF antenna on dorsal section; ACS; two forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensors in recessed emplacements in leg-joint nacelles below and to the the fore of the canopy. Two Battroid-mode searchlights. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NR-BP-E3 FAST Pack space booster system with rotary radome and APS-201 surveillance radar; HF, VHF, and VLF antennae equipped NR-SR-E3 (right) and NR-SL-E3 (left) arm-mounted contennae, and side surveillance radar systems in two NR-FS-E3 attachments on VE-1. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NP-BP-T1 FAST Pack space booster system with additional antenna on right pod on VT-1. Block 4 and earlier machines were upgraded to block 5 specifications with improved avionics for space use in Plus upgrade.
ARMAMENT: Fixed Mauler RÖV-20 anti-aircraft laser cannon (One in VF-1A, two in VF-1D and VF-1J, and four in VF-1S), firing 6000 pulses per minute, mounted under nose in Fighter and GERWALK mode or on head turret in Battroid mode. Standard external 55 mm Howard GU-11 three-barrel gatling gun pod mounted under central fuselage in Fighter mode or in manipulator or stored on arm hard point in GERWALK and Battroid modes with 200 rds fired at 1200 rds per minute. Four underwing hard points for twelve AMM-1 hybrid guided multipurpose missiles each with four stabilizers which extend during launch (three on each hard point), twelve MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs (three on each hard point), six RMS-1 large anti-ship reaction missiles (two on each outboard hard point and one on each inboard hard point), four UUM-7 micro-missile pods (one on each hard point) each carrying up to fifteen Bifors HMM-01 micro-missiles, or a combination of the above missiles. The VT-1C can be equipped with Galactic Whale-capturing harpoon-shooting pod with harpoon approximately 5 meters long.
Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system with fifty-six 28-cm-diameter Erlikon GH-32 Grenade Crusher high manoeuvrability micro-missiles (twenty-two mounted in two shoulder launchers, ten mounted in two chest launchers, sixteen mounted in side leg launchers, and eight mounted in rear leg launchers), six Erlikon GA-100 Crusher high-speed armor-penetrating projectiles mounted in two lower arm launchers, and six Ramington H-22T large hand grenades mounted on torso; or Shinnakasu Heavy Industry FAST Pack augmentative space weapon system (UNS codename: Booby Duck) with six micro-missiles in two NP-AR-01 micro-missile launcher pods (mounted rearwardly under center ventral section in Fighter mode or on lower arm sections in GERWALK and Battroid mode), and two HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pods. The HMMP-02 pod can be replaced by the optional Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod (mounted on dorsal section).
The VT-1 and VE-1 normally carry no armament.
DIMENSIONS, EXTERNAL:
Fighter mode:
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
VT-1C (estimated), fully extended 14.78 m
swept backward 42° 12.12 m
overswept backward 72° 8.25 m [8.75 m]
in stowage position at 122° 4.70 m
Length overall: 14.23 m
VT-1C (estimated) 13.88 m
with FAST Pack system 14.0 m
with atmospheric-escape booster system 18.9 m
Height overall: 3.84 m [2.85 m]
with FAST Pack system 5.5 m
GERWALK mode:
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
swept backward 42° 12.12 m
overswept backward 72° 8.25 m [8.75 m]
in stowage position at 122° 4.70 m
Length overall: 11.3 m
Height overall: 8.7 m
Battroid mode:
Height overall: 12.68 m
with GBP-1S system 14.1 m
Width overall: 7.3 m
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
Width overall: with GBP-1S system 9.8 m
Length overall: 4 m
with GBP-1S system 4.8 m
MASSES AND LOADINGS:
Mass empty: 13250 kg
VF-1X Plus 13850 kg
with FAST Pack system 19200 kg
Mass: VT-1C (estimated), with rear and leg booster packs 13750 kg
Max propellant capacity: FAST Pack system 11000 kg
Standard T-O mass: 18500 kg
Standard operational mass: with 16200-kg GBP-1S system 37100 kg
Standard T-O mass: with FAST Pack system 45000 kg
Standard liftoff mass: with atmospheric-escape booster system 120500 kg
Max T-O mass: 37000 kg
with FAST Pack system 72000 kg
PERFORMANCE:
Fighter mode:
Max level speed: at 10000 m Mach 2.71
VF-1X Plus, at 10000 m Mach 3.05
at 30000+ m Mach 3.87
VF-1X Plus, at 30000+ m Mach 4.28
g limit: in space +7
GERWALK mode:
Max level speed: walking 100 km/h
flying 500 km/h
Min level speed: 0 km/h (VTOL capable)
Max hovering time: using 13000 kg [x g] x 2 thrust 70 seconds
using 11500 kg [x g] x 2 thrust 420 seconds
Battroid mode:
Max level speed: walking 160 km/h
Operational underwater depth: 100 m
Transformation:
Min time from Fighter to GERWALK: automated Approx 1.5 s
Min time from GERWALK to Battroid: automated under 2 s
Standard time from Fighter to Battroid: automated under 5 s
Min time from Fighter to Battroid: manual 0.9 s
GOVERNMENT: UNITED NATIONS
MANUFACTURER: STONEWELL/BELLCOM
STONEWELL/BELLCOM VF-1 VALKYRIE
TYPE: All-environ variable fighter and tactical combat battroid.
PROGRAMME: Tentative plan introduced for all-environ variable combat system for use against giants February 2002. UN Forces' basic requirement for system to incorporate aerospace fighting capability equal to the level of contemporary fighters and ground comabt capability comparable to Destroid series. Development began with United Nation Forces contract to Stonewell and Bellcom; Stonewell and Bellcom solicited the powerplant producer Shinnakasu Heavy Industry (co-developer of reaction engines) and ground weaponry maker Centinental (co-developer of Destroid series) as partners; development team completed basic design 2005; one non-transformable VF-X flight test machine and one transformable VF-X-1 produced; first flight February 2007; space-worthiness tests begin in June 2007. Decision made to formally introduce the VF-X1 November 2007.
Development and mass production of operational VF-1A started November 2007. Deployment begins on CVS-101 Prometheus carrier August 2008 (However, usage is limited to Fighter mode only). Total initial strength on SDF-1 Macross at space launch ceremony 1 February 2009: 212 VF-1 Valkyries. First operational deployment in Space War I's Battle of South Ataria Island the same day. First operational deployment of Protect-Weapon-system-equipped Valkyrie in space combat October 2009. First operational deployment of FAST-Pack-equipped Valkyrie in combat January 2010. Production resumed after Space War I at surviving parts plants in the space colonies and on the Lunar surface's Apollo Base August 2011. At the end of the 2015, production of the VF-1 series ended with the rollout of the final VF-1 in a commemorative ceremony. Scheduled to be replaced as main variable fighter by VF-4 Lightning III in 2020.
VARIANTS:
VF-X: Non-transformable variable-wing flight test version.
VF-X-1: Transformable prototype developmental version.
VF-1A: Standard UN Spacy version manufactured by licensee Northrom. One head-turret-mounted RÖV-20 laser gun.
VF-1B: VF-1A version upgraded by the "Half-S" retrofit (overhauled avionics and S-type head unit).
VF-1D: Two-seater version. Two RÖV-20 laser guns and two TV camera eye systems.
VF-1J: Version manufactured by licensee Shinnakasu Heavy Industry and assigned to air team and squadron leaders. Two RÖV-20 laser guns on improved Kyuusei-Industry-designed head unit. The out-of-sequence "J" designation is believed to represent the abbreviation of the region of its origin.
VF-1S: Version manufactured in limited numbers by licensee Northrom and assigned to squadron leaders and CAGs. Four RÖV-20 laser guns, enhanced avionics identical to VF-1A's Block 12 design, newly-redesigned Kyuusei Industry head turret, improved FF-2001D engine with greater engine thrust.
VF-1X: Modernized version with completely upgraded materials, avionics and power plants.
VEFR-1: Two-seater version with detection and electronic equipment for reconnaisance, ECM, and ECCM missions. This version includes a rotary overhead radome, electronic surveillance pod mounted on the arm,detection equipment in the wing, and retractable detectors in lieu of hands.
VT-1: Two-seater trainer version, manufactured by licensee Northrom, normally equipped with Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NR-BP-T1 FAST Pack booster variant with enlarged propellant tanks and no missile pods, NR-FB-T1 conformal tanks, NP-AU-T1 arm units with no micro-missiles
VT-1C: Version produced for civilian use
VE-1: Two-seater version similar to VT-1 with Shinnakasu Heavy Industry early warning and electronic warfare pack developed in cooperation with Bifors, which includes NR-BP-E2 FAST Pack booster variant with rotary radome; NR-SR-E3 (right) and NR-SL-E3 (left) arm-mounted containers with HF, VHF, and VLF antennae; and two NR-FS-E3 attachments with side surveillance radar systems.
Note: Machines upgraded to block 5 or higher specifications were renamed Plus (e.g. VF-1A Plus).
CUSTOMERS: UNS, UNN, UNSAF.
COSTS: Not publicly disclosed, but reported to be about 20 times that of a standard Destroid.
DESIGN FEATURES: VG wing; VTOL capability; CCV structure; four times the mobility of the Destroid Spartan; single-axis thrust vectoring; three "magic hand" manipulators for maintenance use; option of GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system, atmospheric-escape booster system, or FAST Pack space booster and weaponry system.
FLYING CONTROLS: Fly-by-light, two-section flap (with spoiler) and fowler flap occupy almost entire wing trailing-edge; leading-edge slats; conventional rudders in outward-canted vertical tail surfaces; two slits located on forward main body in Fighter mode operate in lieu of glove vanes by controlling airflow; two-dimensional vectored thrust nozzles operate in lieu of conventional elevators and horizontal stabilizers and in tandem with wing thruster roll control system; four Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 high-thrust vernier thrusters; eighteen P&W LHP04 low-thrust vernier thrusters beneath multipurpose hook/handles; one counter reverse vernier thruster nozzle on the side of each leg nacelle air intake; large airbrake directly rear of cockpit canopy (nozzle feet operate as airbrakes also); one ventral fin under each engine nacelle.
LANDING GEAR: Retractable tricycle undercarriage. Two steerable nosewheels retract rearward into nose and twin coupled mainwheels inward into fuselage. Two arresting hooks mounted underfuselage on engine nacelles.
POWER PLANT: Two Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, each rated at 11500 kg [x g] class (23000 kg [x g] in overboost) and 650 MW in generation power. Engines generate 17,680 PS during ground combat, or 956 PS/t with standard take-off mass. The VF-1S version has Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001D engines. The VF-1X Plus has Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2079J thermonuclear turbine engines, each rated at 15000 kg [x g] class. The VT-1C has custom tuned Shinnakasu Heavy Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2001 engines, each rated at approximately 10000 kg [x g] class. Two-dimensional convergent/divergent exhaust nozzles, for enhanced V/STOL performance and manoeuvrability. Rectangular underfuselage air intake with retractable cover in Battroid mode or space use. Four Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NBS-1 high-thrust vernier thrusters. Eighteen P&W LHP04 low-thrust vernier thrusters beneath multipurpose hook/handles. One counter reverse vernier thruster nozzle on the side of each leg nacelle air intake. Fluid pulse actuators enable transformation. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system with two assist thrusters; atmospheric-escape booster system with four 22500 kg [x g] class conventional rocket engines; or Shinnakasu Heavy Industry FAST Pack space booster system with two 120000 kg [x g] class (for 150 seconds at maximum thrust) P&W+EF-2001 booster thrusters, two leg/engine-pod-mounted CTB-04 conformal propellant tanks (for both propellant and coolant), and numerous high-manoeuvrability vernier thrusters in two dorsal-mounted NP-BP-01 (NP-BP-T1 on VT-1, NR-NP-E3 on VE-1) and two leg/engine-pod-mounted NP-FB-01 (NP-FB-T1 on VT-1, NR-FS-E3 on VE-1) systems. The VT-1's FAST Pack space booster variant includes enhanced vernier thrusters and an additional tail unit booster.
ACCOMMODATION: Pilot only in Marty & Beck Mk-7 zero/zero ejection seat. VF-1D, VEFR-1, VT-1, and VE-1 each have two seats. Pressurized upward-hinged canopy with retractable shield for Battroid mode and atmospheric reentry use; central column controller, throttle, and two GERWALK arm controller sticks in Fighter/GERWALK mode cockpit of Block 5 or earlier machines. Each GERWALK and Battroid arm controller contains five tapets and one ball controller to control the fingers, palm and thumb. Side-stick controller and multi-position throttle lever/stick in Fighter/GERWALK mode cockpit of Block 6 or later machines. Both side-stick and throttle have six tapets to control the fingers and palm. Two rear (back) mirrors. Block 5 and earlier machines were upgraded to Block 6 specifications with improved cockpit and Mk-7 Custom ejection seat.
AVIONICS: HUD (displayed on transparent panels in block 5 or earlier machines, on canopy in Block 6 or later machines); hexagonal three-panel main screen in block 5 or earlier machines, octagonal one-panel main screen in Block 6 or later machines; IFF antenna, UHF antenna, and AWG-20 radar FCS in nosecone; head-turret-mounted hybrid sensor/TV camera eye system and radar sensor dome with rear periscope; VHF antenna in vertical stabilizer, and EC and retractable VHF antenna in vernier tail pack (extended in GERWALK mode); IFF/UHF datalink antenna and TACAN/UHF antenna on dorsal section; ACS; two forward-looking infra-red (FLIR) sensors in recessed emplacements in leg-joint nacelles below and to the the fore of the canopy. Two Battroid-mode searchlights. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NR-BP-E3 FAST Pack space booster system with rotary radome and APS-201 surveillance radar; HF, VHF, and VLF antennae equipped NR-SR-E3 (right) and NR-SL-E3 (left) arm-mounted contennae, and side surveillance radar systems in two NR-FS-E3 attachments on VE-1. Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry NP-BP-T1 FAST Pack space booster system with additional antenna on right pod on VT-1. Block 4 and earlier machines were upgraded to block 5 specifications with improved avionics for space use in Plus upgrade.
ARMAMENT: Fixed Mauler RÖV-20 anti-aircraft laser cannon (One in VF-1A, two in VF-1D and VF-1J, and four in VF-1S), firing 6000 pulses per minute, mounted under nose in Fighter and GERWALK mode or on head turret in Battroid mode. Standard external 55 mm Howard GU-11 three-barrel gatling gun pod mounted under central fuselage in Fighter mode or in manipulator or stored on arm hard point in GERWALK and Battroid modes with 200 rds fired at 1200 rds per minute. Four underwing hard points for twelve AMM-1 hybrid guided multipurpose missiles each with four stabilizers which extend during launch (three on each hard point), twelve MK-82 LDGB conventional bombs (three on each hard point), six RMS-1 large anti-ship reaction missiles (two on each outboard hard point and one on each inboard hard point), four UUM-7 micro-missile pods (one on each hard point) each carrying up to fifteen Bifors HMM-01 micro-missiles, or a combination of the above missiles. The VT-1C can be equipped with Galactic Whale-capturing harpoon-shooting pod with harpoon approximately 5 meters long.
Option of Shinnakasu Heavy Industry GBP-1S ground-combat protector weapon system with fifty-six 28-cm-diameter Erlikon GH-32 Grenade Crusher high manoeuvrability micro-missiles (twenty-two mounted in two shoulder launchers, ten mounted in two chest launchers, sixteen mounted in side leg launchers, and eight mounted in rear leg launchers), six Erlikon GA-100 Crusher high-speed armor-penetrating projectiles mounted in two lower arm launchers, and six Ramington H-22T large hand grenades mounted on torso; or Shinnakasu Heavy Industry FAST Pack augmentative space weapon system (UNS codename: Booby Duck) with six micro-missiles in two NP-AR-01 micro-missile launcher pods (mounted rearwardly under center ventral section in Fighter mode or on lower arm sections in GERWALK and Battroid mode), and two HMMP-02 micro-missile launcher pods. The HMMP-02 pod can be replaced by the optional Mauler RO-X2A high-powered double-action beam cannon pod (mounted on dorsal section).
The VT-1 and VE-1 normally carry no armament.
DIMENSIONS, EXTERNAL:
Fighter mode:
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
VT-1C (estimated), fully extended 14.78 m
swept backward 42° 12.12 m
overswept backward 72° 8.25 m [8.75 m]
in stowage position at 122° 4.70 m
Length overall: 14.23 m
VT-1C (estimated) 13.88 m
with FAST Pack system 14.0 m
with atmospheric-escape booster system 18.9 m
Height overall: 3.84 m [2.85 m]
with FAST Pack system 5.5 m
GERWALK mode:
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
swept backward 42° 12.12 m
overswept backward 72° 8.25 m [8.75 m]
in stowage position at 122° 4.70 m
Length overall: 11.3 m
Height overall: 8.7 m
Battroid mode:
Height overall: 12.68 m
with GBP-1S system 14.1 m
Width overall: 7.3 m
Wing span: fully extended 20° 14.78 m
Width overall: with GBP-1S system 9.8 m
Length overall: 4 m
with GBP-1S system 4.8 m
MASSES AND LOADINGS:
Mass empty: 13250 kg
VF-1X Plus 13850 kg
with FAST Pack system 19200 kg
Mass: VT-1C (estimated), with rear and leg booster packs 13750 kg
Max propellant capacity: FAST Pack system 11000 kg
Standard T-O mass: 18500 kg
Standard operational mass: with 16200-kg GBP-1S system 37100 kg
Standard T-O mass: with FAST Pack system 45000 kg
Standard liftoff mass: with atmospheric-escape booster system 120500 kg
Max T-O mass: 37000 kg
with FAST Pack system 72000 kg
PERFORMANCE:
Fighter mode:
Max level speed: at 10000 m Mach 2.71
VF-1X Plus, at 10000 m Mach 3.05
at 30000+ m Mach 3.87
VF-1X Plus, at 30000+ m Mach 4.28
g limit: in space +7
GERWALK mode:
Max level speed: walking 100 km/h
flying 500 km/h
Min level speed: 0 km/h (VTOL capable)
Max hovering time: using 13000 kg [x g] x 2 thrust 70 seconds
using 11500 kg [x g] x 2 thrust 420 seconds
Battroid mode:
Max level speed: walking 160 km/h
Operational underwater depth: 100 m
Transformation:
Min time from Fighter to GERWALK: automated Approx 1.5 s
Min time from GERWALK to Battroid: automated under 2 s
Standard time from Fighter to Battroid: automated under 5 s
Min time from Fighter to Battroid: manual 0.9 s
-
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- Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
1,2,5 and 7 are victories for reality.
In 3,4 and 6 anti physics super fighter wins, probably. Though with only enough of that shit to make it able to operate, it's had its balls sliced clear off.
MALI then downs everything that’s left..
Speaking of that, I final found my link to the MALI project or "Miniature Air Launched Interceptor"
http://www.vectorsite.net/avuav5.html Look near the bottom
"* DARPA and the USAF are also considering the use of MALD technology for a variety of other, more warlike missions. The farthest advanced of these concepts is the "Miniature Air Launched Interceptor (MALI)", a MALD modified to shoot down cruise missiles. First MALI test flight, using a modified MALD airframe, was in late 2001.
While early MALI test launches used a standard TJ-50 engine, the plan is to upgrade the engine to the more powerful "TJ-50M" to provide short bursts of supersonic performance. The improved engine could be retrofitted to existing MALDs. The production MALI is to have a range of about 370 kilometers (230 miles), and be guided towards a target cruise missile target by commands from a surveillance platform such as an E-3 AWACs.
Early MALI prototypes are fitted with an infrared seeker obtained from a Stinger shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missile for terminal target lock, though production MALIs might use other seekers that DARPA is currently developing. The production missile will be fitted with a datalink to allow a salvo of MALIs to engage multiple targets without duplicating attacks on the same target.
Other MALD variants are under consideration:
· The US Army is interested in a ground-launched version of MALI, to be fired from an Army Patriot SAM launcher, with each launcher carrying 16 MALIs. The missile would be boosted to flight speed by a solid-rocket motor derived from the Hellfire anti-tank missile."
In 3,4 and 6 anti physics super fighter wins, probably. Though with only enough of that shit to make it able to operate, it's had its balls sliced clear off.
MALI then downs everything that’s left..
Speaking of that, I final found my link to the MALI project or "Miniature Air Launched Interceptor"
http://www.vectorsite.net/avuav5.html Look near the bottom
"* DARPA and the USAF are also considering the use of MALD technology for a variety of other, more warlike missions. The farthest advanced of these concepts is the "Miniature Air Launched Interceptor (MALI)", a MALD modified to shoot down cruise missiles. First MALI test flight, using a modified MALD airframe, was in late 2001.
While early MALI test launches used a standard TJ-50 engine, the plan is to upgrade the engine to the more powerful "TJ-50M" to provide short bursts of supersonic performance. The improved engine could be retrofitted to existing MALDs. The production MALI is to have a range of about 370 kilometers (230 miles), and be guided towards a target cruise missile target by commands from a surveillance platform such as an E-3 AWACs.
Early MALI prototypes are fitted with an infrared seeker obtained from a Stinger shoulder-launched anti-aircraft missile for terminal target lock, though production MALIs might use other seekers that DARPA is currently developing. The production missile will be fitted with a datalink to allow a salvo of MALIs to engage multiple targets without duplicating attacks on the same target.
Other MALD variants are under consideration:
· The US Army is interested in a ground-launched version of MALI, to be fired from an Army Patriot SAM launcher, with each launcher carrying 16 MALIs. The missile would be boosted to flight speed by a solid-rocket motor derived from the Hellfire anti-tank missile."
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Enough AnimePhysics to let it fly, but no foolishness like dodging lasersSWPIGWANG wrote:VF1 <> real phyiscs
can not co-exist
Bah. A passing F-15E sees it on it's LANTIRN pod or it's radar in synthetic apeture mod and fires a Maverick on itanyway, battorid mode and camp on ground and hide can mean they never lose.... :p
NEVER go by the Robotech Reference Guide. NONE of it, and I mean NONE of it is canon. Besides, which is cooler: A variable fighter running on nuclear power or a bunch of flowers?phongn wrote:I'm going by the Robotech version, so (for all of its faults), the Robotech Reference Guide might be a better source.
The info I provided above is from The Macross Compendium, http://macross.anime.net/index.html#menu, which is run by Egan Loo in conjunction with Big West, the TRUE creators of Macross.
Going by that site, the F/A-22 in some respects is actually superior to the VF-1. Consider:
The VF-1 has two FF-2001 engines rated at 112.7 kN, while the F/A-22 has two engines rated at some 155.7 kN. The Valkyrie does not seem to use its thrusters in atmospheric combat, while the Raptor has 2D thrust vectoring.
The Valk has the AWG-20 fire-control system. I don't know how it compares to the APG-77, though the Valk adds an IRST/TV sensor. It appears to be a conventional pulse-Doppler radar (as opposed to the AESA phased-array on the APG-77) and unlikely to be as effective as the Raptor's systems.
The AMM-1 is an interesting multipurpose missile, but for dedicated air-to-air combat I'd rather take something like the FRAAM, AAAM or AIM-9X (for medium, long and short range, respectively). Jack of all trades, master of none best fits the Stilleto, though the designers didn't have much of a choice.
The VF-1 has two FF-2001 engines rated at 112.7 kN, while the F/A-22 has two engines rated at some 155.7 kN. The Valkyrie does not seem to use its thrusters in atmospheric combat, while the Raptor has 2D thrust vectoring.
The Valk has the AWG-20 fire-control system. I don't know how it compares to the APG-77, though the Valk adds an IRST/TV sensor. It appears to be a conventional pulse-Doppler radar (as opposed to the AESA phased-array on the APG-77) and unlikely to be as effective as the Raptor's systems.
The AMM-1 is an interesting multipurpose missile, but for dedicated air-to-air combat I'd rather take something like the FRAAM, AAAM or AIM-9X (for medium, long and short range, respectively). Jack of all trades, master of none best fits the Stilleto, though the designers didn't have much of a choice.
Ahh....but we have to remember, the Valkyrie was designed in the late 70's, early 80's. Did any of this newer tech for fighters exist then?
Now, if you want to compare an F/A-22 to anything, why not look at the newer breed of variable fighters like the VF-17 Nightmare, VF-11 Thunderbolt, VF-19 Excalibur, and VF-22 Sturmvogel?
Those AVF's share design characteristics of their modern day counterparts.....
Now, if you want to compare an F/A-22 to anything, why not look at the newer breed of variable fighters like the VF-17 Nightmare, VF-11 Thunderbolt, VF-19 Excalibur, and VF-22 Sturmvogel?
Those AVF's share design characteristics of their modern day counterparts.....
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Shaka[Zulu]
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and how do you justify that statement? what part of the tech tree which a transformable fighter depends upon is not already in the process of development (not including those pesky fusion turbines)? I grant you that such a vehicle would be nowhere near as robust as depicted in the anime -- indeed, no real-life vehicle is as robust as depicted in popular media (provided that it is ever depicted in the media), but it is possible.SWPIGWANG wrote:VF1 <> real phyiscs
can not co-exist
here are a few of the technological foundations which would be usable in a valk or any 'mech type vehicle:
synthetic muscle fibers -- currently under development @ the U. of Mew Mexico, other universities and companies
robot mobility techniques under development @ MIT's robotics department -- forget the sony bipedal walker (it sucks)... MIT bots can do gymnastics!
materials tech such as Bo+Al composites (armor), Ti+Al alloys (structure) and trasnparent Al (for superior canopies, sensor apertures etc... recently produced -- and still not truly transparent -- at the Fraunhofer Institute in Germany)
All this being said, we are still quite a ways off from even considering a project like a valk or other 'mech, and the specs of a functional specimen would be far removed from those of anime, but afaik, there is nothing that prohibits such a vehicle. about the only serious 'ifs' there are entail the vehicle's total mass (determines if it will fly or not, depends on materials almost exclusively) and the power source... ie what kind of power source is it, how does it integrate with the vehicle, how much power can it put out etc.
Also, it needs saying that given equal technological bases, a variable fighter will be at a decided disadvantage against any comparable single-purpose fighting craft when in that particular craft's 'home' environment, and the variable fighter sticks to fighting on similar terms -- ie against an F-22 in the air, a valk would be at a decided disadvantage from the start if it remains in fighter mode, where both craft are operating in a high-energy combat profile -- the F-22 can carry a great deal more payload (internally), is stealthier and far more maneuverable in a high E profile due to its' structural solidity. Likewise, on the ground, the valk would be highly vulnerable to a typical M1A2, which carries a bigger gun, and can more easily hide. This changes somewhat if the valk pilot decides to not play fair, and uses the valk's mode changes to best effect -- for example, in the air vs the F-22 this would entail switching to gerwalk or battroid, and thus assuming a much lower E profile (but gaining an ability to make very quick, last instant maneuvers for short distances), with a correspondingly much greater field of fire for all weapons -- so long as he can maintain control in the hover, he could effectively defend against incoming missiles, and still fire upon the F-22 whenever it comes within range (if it does so)... the pilot might become 'chuky salsa' by the time the fight was over, but once again, it is possible.
if anybody has specific issues with the above, I would be happy to adjust accordingly if necessary
panty-stealing military mecha maniac
For a better idea of how the variable fighters advanced, here's the specs for the VF-22 Sturmvogel II:
EQUIPMENT TYPE: VARIABLE VEHICLES
GOVERNMENT: UNITED NATIONS GOVERNMENT
MANUFACTURER: GENERAL GALAXY
MODEL: GENERAL GALAXY VF-22 STURMVOGEL II
COMMENT: TYPE: UNS special operations variable fighter.
PROGRAMME: VF-22 developed from General Galaxy YF-21 design after UN Forces' decision not to adopt the earlier design as the main variable fighter in the Super Nova (AVF) competition. Brainwave control system not implemented in VF-22 design due to test results on the YF-21 in the Super Nova competition. Decision made to adopt VF-22S as special operations fighter successor to General Galaxy VF-17 2042 December. Two fighters used in final stages of Protodeviln War 2046 February.
VARIANTS:
VF-22: Advance production version with no additional series letter designation
VF-22S: Production version adopted by United Nations as special operations fighter. First manufactured by Macross 7 fleet factory ship Three Star under experimental license for two fighters.
CUSTOMER: UNS.
DESIGN FEATURES: Implementation of Zentradi technology (due to the implementation of a revised version of the Quimeliquola Quaedluun-Rau battle suit's special inertia vector control system, the VF-22 has a similar silhouette to the battle suit in Battroid mode); low observables stealth configuration and construction; stealth/agility trade-off decided by design team; two flight configuration modes (cruise and high speed) achieved via varying the cant of the wing and tail surfaces; supersonic cruise and manoeuvring in region of Mach 5+ below the stratosphere; sufficient thrust for attaining orbital velocity over a Earth-class planet; vertical T-O and landing (VTOL); fighter-carried pin-point barrier system (PPV); trapezoidal combined variable-cant tail stabilizing surfaces; active stealth system; three-dimensional thrust vectoring with three independently pivoting exhaust nozzle flaps on each engine; head unit and legs enhanced from earlier YF-21 design; under-fuselage micro-missile launchers and gunpods internalized; option of external fold booster.
FLYING CONTROLS: Inertia vector control system improved upon and derived from Zentradi battle suit Quimeliquola Queadluun-Rau. Conventional digital flight control system. Outward-canted combined tail slab stabilizers/ruddervators. Two ventral fins below and to the sides of the air intakes.
LANDING GEAR: Retractable tricycle undercarriage. One steerable nosewheel and two mainwheels.
POWER PLANT: Two 65200 kg [x g] class (maximum instantaneous thrust in space) Shinnakasu Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2450B thermonuclear engines. In atmosphere, the engines use air as coolant/propellant, but due to problems of cooling efficiency (caused by exceeding output and melting the core) the maximum thrust is limited to 40% to 60% of thrust in space. Two trapezoidal air intakes with retractable shutters for Battroid mode or space use and four dorsal overflow outlets. Three-dimensional independent convergent/divergent turning exhaust nozzle vanes, for enhanced V/STOL performance and manoeuvrability. Four dorsal sub-nozzles above main exhaust nozzles. Two banks of pivoting underfuselage slits acting as main nozzles for VTOL hovering in GERWALK mode. P&W HMM-6J high-manoeuvrability vernier thrusters. Special equipment hard point station for optional external fighter fold booster on special pylons.
ACCOMMODATION: Pilot only in g-endurance zero/zero ejection seat and wearing Tactical Life Support System with upper and lower g-suits and pressure breathing; completely shielded, presurized cockpit with external view maintained by overhead spherical canopy, one forward panel, and two side panels in cockpit hatch; conventional digital flight control system with side-stick controller.
AVIONICS: Side-stick controller, imaging monitor screens. Active stealth system. Six cameras, one on the top, one on the bottom, and four on the sides of the nose. Two sensor units (one hybrid to the rear) mounted on head turret.
ARMAMENT: Fixed high-powered converging energy cannon mounted rearward on forward dorsal fuselage in Fighter and GERWALK modes or on head turret in Battroid mode. Two converging energy cannons with forward and rearward barrels mounted underneath tail stabilizers in Fighter mode or in the lower arm section in GERWALK and Fighter modes. Fixed fighter-carried pin-point barrier system for use in GERWALK and Battroid modes. Two Fighter-mode tail stabilizers act as shields in GERWALK and Battroid modes in concert with barrier system. Three standard internal pallets. Micro-missile launchers with four exit ports on the forward dorsal section to the sides of the engine nacelles. Micro-missile launchers with four exit ports on the ventral fuselage to the rear of the engine nacelles in Fighter mode or on leg storage bay cover panels in GERWALK and Battroid modes. Exclusive internal pallet(s). Eight hard point weapon stations for two internal cartridge-less gatling gun pods each with retractable grip and retractable stealth cover mounted below fuselage and to the rear of fuselage in Fighter mode or on leg storage bay cover panels or in manipulators in GERWALK and Battroid modes.
DIMENSIONS, EXTERNAL:
Fighter mode:
Wing span: 15.36 m
Length overall: 19.62 m
Height overall: 4.04 m
MASSES AND LOADINGS:
Mass empty: 9550 kg
VF-22S 9340 kg
PERFORMANCE:
Fighter mode:
Cruising speed: at 10000 m Mach 5.06
VF-22S, standard in atmosphere at 10000 m Mach 5.07
Max cruising speed: at 30000+ m Mach 21
VF-22S, at 30000+ m Mach 22+
Ceiling: Unlimited (Capable of attaining satellite orbit over an Earth-class planet)
Max rate of climb at S/L: 61900 m/min
Combat action radius (in atmosphere): Nearly unlimited
g limits: +60/-45
GERWALK mode:
Min T-O/landing run: 0 m (VTOL capable)
EQUIPMENT TYPE: VARIABLE VEHICLES
GOVERNMENT: UNITED NATIONS GOVERNMENT
MANUFACTURER: GENERAL GALAXY
MODEL: GENERAL GALAXY VF-22 STURMVOGEL II
COMMENT: TYPE: UNS special operations variable fighter.
PROGRAMME: VF-22 developed from General Galaxy YF-21 design after UN Forces' decision not to adopt the earlier design as the main variable fighter in the Super Nova (AVF) competition. Brainwave control system not implemented in VF-22 design due to test results on the YF-21 in the Super Nova competition. Decision made to adopt VF-22S as special operations fighter successor to General Galaxy VF-17 2042 December. Two fighters used in final stages of Protodeviln War 2046 February.
VARIANTS:
VF-22: Advance production version with no additional series letter designation
VF-22S: Production version adopted by United Nations as special operations fighter. First manufactured by Macross 7 fleet factory ship Three Star under experimental license for two fighters.
CUSTOMER: UNS.
DESIGN FEATURES: Implementation of Zentradi technology (due to the implementation of a revised version of the Quimeliquola Quaedluun-Rau battle suit's special inertia vector control system, the VF-22 has a similar silhouette to the battle suit in Battroid mode); low observables stealth configuration and construction; stealth/agility trade-off decided by design team; two flight configuration modes (cruise and high speed) achieved via varying the cant of the wing and tail surfaces; supersonic cruise and manoeuvring in region of Mach 5+ below the stratosphere; sufficient thrust for attaining orbital velocity over a Earth-class planet; vertical T-O and landing (VTOL); fighter-carried pin-point barrier system (PPV); trapezoidal combined variable-cant tail stabilizing surfaces; active stealth system; three-dimensional thrust vectoring with three independently pivoting exhaust nozzle flaps on each engine; head unit and legs enhanced from earlier YF-21 design; under-fuselage micro-missile launchers and gunpods internalized; option of external fold booster.
FLYING CONTROLS: Inertia vector control system improved upon and derived from Zentradi battle suit Quimeliquola Queadluun-Rau. Conventional digital flight control system. Outward-canted combined tail slab stabilizers/ruddervators. Two ventral fins below and to the sides of the air intakes.
LANDING GEAR: Retractable tricycle undercarriage. One steerable nosewheel and two mainwheels.
POWER PLANT: Two 65200 kg [x g] class (maximum instantaneous thrust in space) Shinnakasu Industry/P&W/Roice FF-2450B thermonuclear engines. In atmosphere, the engines use air as coolant/propellant, but due to problems of cooling efficiency (caused by exceeding output and melting the core) the maximum thrust is limited to 40% to 60% of thrust in space. Two trapezoidal air intakes with retractable shutters for Battroid mode or space use and four dorsal overflow outlets. Three-dimensional independent convergent/divergent turning exhaust nozzle vanes, for enhanced V/STOL performance and manoeuvrability. Four dorsal sub-nozzles above main exhaust nozzles. Two banks of pivoting underfuselage slits acting as main nozzles for VTOL hovering in GERWALK mode. P&W HMM-6J high-manoeuvrability vernier thrusters. Special equipment hard point station for optional external fighter fold booster on special pylons.
ACCOMMODATION: Pilot only in g-endurance zero/zero ejection seat and wearing Tactical Life Support System with upper and lower g-suits and pressure breathing; completely shielded, presurized cockpit with external view maintained by overhead spherical canopy, one forward panel, and two side panels in cockpit hatch; conventional digital flight control system with side-stick controller.
AVIONICS: Side-stick controller, imaging monitor screens. Active stealth system. Six cameras, one on the top, one on the bottom, and four on the sides of the nose. Two sensor units (one hybrid to the rear) mounted on head turret.
ARMAMENT: Fixed high-powered converging energy cannon mounted rearward on forward dorsal fuselage in Fighter and GERWALK modes or on head turret in Battroid mode. Two converging energy cannons with forward and rearward barrels mounted underneath tail stabilizers in Fighter mode or in the lower arm section in GERWALK and Fighter modes. Fixed fighter-carried pin-point barrier system for use in GERWALK and Battroid modes. Two Fighter-mode tail stabilizers act as shields in GERWALK and Battroid modes in concert with barrier system. Three standard internal pallets. Micro-missile launchers with four exit ports on the forward dorsal section to the sides of the engine nacelles. Micro-missile launchers with four exit ports on the ventral fuselage to the rear of the engine nacelles in Fighter mode or on leg storage bay cover panels in GERWALK and Battroid modes. Exclusive internal pallet(s). Eight hard point weapon stations for two internal cartridge-less gatling gun pods each with retractable grip and retractable stealth cover mounted below fuselage and to the rear of fuselage in Fighter mode or on leg storage bay cover panels or in manipulators in GERWALK and Battroid modes.
DIMENSIONS, EXTERNAL:
Fighter mode:
Wing span: 15.36 m
Length overall: 19.62 m
Height overall: 4.04 m
MASSES AND LOADINGS:
Mass empty: 9550 kg
VF-22S 9340 kg
PERFORMANCE:
Fighter mode:
Cruising speed: at 10000 m Mach 5.06
VF-22S, standard in atmosphere at 10000 m Mach 5.07
Max cruising speed: at 30000+ m Mach 21
VF-22S, at 30000+ m Mach 22+
Ceiling: Unlimited (Capable of attaining satellite orbit over an Earth-class planet)
Max rate of climb at S/L: 61900 m/min
Combat action radius (in atmosphere): Nearly unlimited
g limits: +60/-45
GERWALK mode:
Min T-O/landing run: 0 m (VTOL capable)
Well, the Valk was (meta)-designed at that time, though if we run by the usual 'debate' rules than that's inadmissable. The VF-1 is technology from around the turn of the century while the F/A-22 is mostly 1980s technology with some newer stuff bolted onDamaramu wrote:Ahh....but we have to remember, the Valkyrie was designed in the late 70's, early 80's. Did any of this newer tech for fighters exist then?
Because the F/A-22 wouldn't stand a chance against those, since they have superior integration of the more advanced technologies taken from the Zentraedi. Though none of those designs are really stealthy (even the VF-22, which is inspired in look by the F/A-22).Now, if you want to compare an F/A-22 to anything, why not look at the newer breed of variable fighters like the VF-17 Nightmare, VF-11 Thunderbolt, VF-19 Excalibur, and VF-22 Sturmvogel?
This is pretty much the type of commentary I was looking forShaka[Zulu] wrote:Also, it needs saying that given equal technological bases, a variable fighter will be at a decided disadvantage against any comparable single-purpose fighting craft when in that particular craft's 'home' environment, and the variable fighter sticks to fighting on similar terms -- ie against an F-22 in the air, a valk would be at a decided disadvantage from the start if it remains in fighter mode, where both craft are operating in a high-energy combat profile -- the F-22 can carry a great deal more payload (internally), is stealthier and far more maneuverable in a high E profile due to its' structural solidity. Likewise, on the ground, the valk would be highly vulnerable to a typical M1A2, which carries a bigger gun, and can more easily hide. This changes somewhat if the valk pilot decides to not play fair, and uses the valk's mode changes to best effect -- for example, in the air vs the F-22 this would entail switching to gerwalk or battroid, and thus assuming a much lower E profile (but gaining an ability to make very quick, last instant maneuvers for short distances), with a correspondingly much greater field of fire for all weapons -- so long as he can maintain control in the hover, he could effectively defend against incoming missiles, and still fire upon the F-22 whenever it comes within range (if it does so)... the pilot might become 'chuky salsa' by the time the fight was over, but once again, it is possible.
if anybody has specific issues with the above, I would be happy to adjust accordingly if necessary
While moving into a 'hover' mode might work, the problems with a low-energy state might negate its usability (for the same reason the Cobra maneuver, which looks cool, would not be used in real combat). That "last-instant" maneuver may also be of limited usefulness against the typical proximity-fused warhead.
In terms of missiles, the AMM-1 Stilletto suffers the same problems as the VF-1 in being a jack-of-all trades design. Missiles such as FRAAM, AIM-9X and AAAM are optimized for the air-to-air mode, while the AMM-1 has to be able to target ground targets as well.
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Sea Skimmer
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Same here, the VF-22 really is closer to the Raptorphongn wrote:I only see a vague resemblance to the YF-23.Damaramu wrote:Actually, me thinks the VF-22 was inspired by the YF-23 Blackwidow II.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
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Shaka[Zulu]
- Jedi Knight
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- Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL USA
oops... I snipped myself 
On fighters with true 2-D vectoring capability, it has been proven in flight tests using modded F-15's and -16's that post stall maneuvering can be of enormous benefit once the range has closed within the typical 10 or so NM that characterizes a true 'dogfight' -- typically, all other things being equal (barring luck), a fighter capable of extensive post-stall maneuvers is unbeatable in a dogfight when placed vs 'conventional' airframes. Due to how a typical veritech operates, I would place them in the 'extensive post stall' capable regime by definition
the thing about the cobra maneuver is that the mig 29/31 has no way to actually exploit it in a fight, as it is locked into a particular sequence of events when doing it -- pitch up, up, even more up, pray to whatever fictitious deity you worship that you wont tumble, then pitch down just fast enough to get your airspeed back up so you dont tumble the other way and smack the ground!phongn wrote: This is pretty much the type of commentary I was looking for
While moving into a 'hover' mode might work, the problems with a low-energy state might negate its usability (for the same reason the Cobra maneuver, which looks cool, would not be used in real combat). That "last-instant" maneuver may also be of limited usefulness against the typical proximity-fused warhead.
In terms of missiles, the AMM-1 Stilletto suffers the same problems as the VF-1 in being a jack-of-all trades design. Missiles such as FRAAM, AIM-9X and AAAM are optimized for the air-to-air mode, while the AMM-1 has to be able to target ground targets as well.
On fighters with true 2-D vectoring capability, it has been proven in flight tests using modded F-15's and -16's that post stall maneuvering can be of enormous benefit once the range has closed within the typical 10 or so NM that characterizes a true 'dogfight' -- typically, all other things being equal (barring luck), a fighter capable of extensive post-stall maneuvers is unbeatable in a dogfight when placed vs 'conventional' airframes. Due to how a typical veritech operates, I would place them in the 'extensive post stall' capable regime by definitionpanty-stealing military mecha maniac
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Shaka[Zulu]
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oh... to make addenda... post-stall maneuvering is almost always done at low airspeeds, and is therefore low E
as for the missiles, you are absolutely right, but there are some benefits to be had from a jack-of-all-trades missile... most notably logistical simplification, and the fact that you'll never be caught with a weapon that is so specialized that you cant use it against what you come across.
as for the missiles, you are absolutely right, but there are some benefits to be had from a jack-of-all-trades missile... most notably logistical simplification, and the fact that you'll never be caught with a weapon that is so specialized that you cant use it against what you come across.
panty-stealing military mecha maniac
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Sea Skimmer
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The real problem with the cobra maneuver, all else aside, is that only Sukhoi's top test pilots have proven able to do the maneuver with reliability.
And even they normally only do it at 25,000+ feet so they have time to recover should anything go wrong, which it often does.
And even they normally only do it at 25,000+ feet so they have time to recover should anything go wrong, which it often does.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Looking at the 3 fighters, I still think the VF-22 has more in common with the YF-23, though it does appear to share some design characteristics of F/A-22 as well.
I dunno...I'm sleepy.
Have a look for yourself:
http://www.geocities.com/morgan_mayhem/comparison.html
I dunno...I'm sleepy.
Have a look for yourself:
http://www.geocities.com/morgan_mayhem/comparison.html
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SylasGaunt
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As many as it wants, though I'm not sure how many the APG-77 can actively guide at a time. The F-14 can guide six missiles at a time, though usually doesn't. It can fire more, of course.SylasGaunt wrote:How many missiles can the F-22 chuck out in a single salvo? I mean there's always the tactic of blowing them out of the sky with the valk's gunpod.
Oh, of course. In the Robotech/Macross threat environment, the decision to go with multipurpose missiles was the correct one. And with the technologies available to them, the performance advantage of a specialized missile isn't as great.Shaka[Zulu] wrote:as for the missiles, you are absolutely right, but there are some benefits to be had from a jack-of-all-trades missile... most notably logistical simplification, and the fact that you'll never be caught with a weapon that is so specialized that you cant use it against what you come across.