War Plan Red: The Anglo-American War

[Axis Kast]

Could the United States, acting on the jist of War Plans Red and Crimson, have carried victory over the British Empire, seized Canada, and smashed the Royal Navy at any time between 1920 and 1930? I have my own opinions, but I'll wait and see what anybody else who's studied this period of history might think.

Had we wanted to, could the United States Navy have sunk the British Pacific Fleet? Would the Japanese have entered the war? How long could Canada hold out, if at all? Would the Atlantic be for one side a lake, or always a contested battleground?

[RedImperator]

While I'm not sure of what the outcome would have been, I've read the war plans (Crimson, Red, and Red-Orange), and the War Department planners seemed to hint that they weren't very optimistic about a two front naval war and virtually counted on Japan entering the war. However, they did seem to think they could sieze Canada before the British could get reinforcements to North America.

[Howedar]

Not without some buildup time. The US military was in a pretty sad state of affairs in the 20s and 30s.

[phongn]

The USN will need serious buildup to fight a two-ocean war - the historic prewar fleet buildup didn't occur during the 20s/30s. You'll also have to get a much larger military going (probably via conscription) to merely invade Canada, nevermind an overseas expeditionary force.

[SirNitram]

On the plus side, it's not as ill-fated as Sealion.

[Typhonis 1]

Japan may not get involved till both England and America were beating each other senseless and it could have happened in 1928 if the Washington Navl Treaty hadn`t been signed

[Sea Skimmer]

Canada would fall, America would train, equip and deploy additional forces, faster then the British could, the British army wasn't in any better shape then US forces at the time.

At sea the RN is quite superior, but it wouldn't last if the war did. The Empire can afford some new ships, and they'd be formidable, but the US can throw down battle fleet keels by the dozen

But what's most likely to happen is the Us fights a fairly hard battle for Canada, then the British agree to let it go after they see the US battle fleet growing rapidly. Both sides claim victory in the relatively short conflict.

[HemlockGrey]

What? How could the British claim a victory if they lost Canada?

[Sea Skimmer]

What? How could the British claim a victory if they lost Canada?

They'd likely have sunk quite a few USN warships, contained the rest, and carted off some outlying US possessions, though not likely the Philippians, or at least not the Manila forts which are the only point with major defences. Not retaking Canada could be explained away, somewhat legitimately, by a desire to avoid the bloodshed of The Great War.

[Axis Kast]

And the Japanese?

[Axis Kast]

Interestingly enough, American planners did apparently "write off" the Phillippine Islands, assuming an aggregate expedition of Indian and ANZAC forces would eventually relieve the United States of their holdings there - perhaps with the assistance of a Japanese fleet.

[Sea Skimmer]

Interestingly enough, American planners did apparently "write off" the Phillippine Islands, assuming an aggregate expedition of Indian and ANZAC forces would eventually relieve the United States of their holdings there - perhaps with the assistance of a Japanese fleet.

Yes they did, just not until the 1930's when the feasibility of the timetable of War Plan Orange was seriously called into doubt.

And the Japanese?

Would likely stay out of the war

[Axis Kast]

Even had the British offered to turn over the Phillippines, assuming it was a Japanese fleet that could help compel its surrender? Or would the fleet in Singapore be able to reduce the American colony on its own?

[Sea Skimmer]

Even had the British offered to turn over the Phillippines, assuming it was a Japanese fleet that could help compel its surrender?

The British wouldn't make such an offer, the alliance between the two nations was quite dead even before Washington. The British need to look after there own empire, and a more powerful Japan will not serve that.

Or would the fleet in Singapore be able to reduce the American colony on its own?

Singapore was not a particularly big or important naval base at this point in history; actually the area of the island that would become a major base was mostly marshes and open water. Ship would mostly be coming from Hong Kong and India. They'd blockade but make no attempt to shoot it out with the forts, which could hold out for quite a few months. They could outrange most of the batteries guns, but with almost all the weapons either mortars or on disappearing mounts long-range fire will accomplish little, you'd need to come within the batteries range if only so that you have there smoke to aim at, getting hits would still be tough though. Anyway they wouldn't risk dreadnought against forts, and the predreadnoughts and most monitors are gone.

So they'd wait them out, and wait for an Army to be assembled and shipped out. If heavy gun emplacements could be established on shore they might speed up the process, but that would take a long time to do.

The forts of Manila bay might hold out a full six months if they're well provisioned before hand, this war wont be a bolt from the blue. But the rest of the islands will likely be take as soon as a major British ground force can dock anchor. Still, all America ever wanted was to keep Manila bay closed for six months.

[Axis Kast]

So it is your opinion that the British might have mustered the forces necessary to sieze the Phillippines, albeit after a lengthy siege?

Why wouldn't the British accept Japanese assistance over the matter of the Phillippines? Did London still covet that real estate itself?

[CJvR]

...at those annoying rebels.

Although the US seem to have vast advantages they also have a fatal weakness. The WWI war debts owed by the Europeeans. The moment war is declared those go down the drain taking the US financial system with them on a scale that probably would make the stock krach in 29? look like a mild adjustment of stock values. The British, French and Italians financed most of the war with US loans so siding with their British "allied" would allow France and Italy to steal billions and get away with it.

With it's finances down the drain and economic chaos the US would be unable to undertake the massive buildup required to win.

[Sea Skimmer]

So it is your opinion that the British might have mustered the forces necessary to sieze the Phillippines, albeit after a lengthy siege?

A seige of the forts yes, everything else could be captured pretty easily once a field army, well more like a corps, could be brought up and landed.

Why wouldn't the British accept Japanese assistance over the matter of the Phillippines? Did London still covet that real estate itself?

To an extent, and they'd want somthing to show for the conflict. But its more a matter of the British fear what the Japanses will grow into in the future. They will not let them become more powerful.