Shrub gets desperate

[EmperorSolo51]

Like I have said before

I would have more sympathy for the anti-Clinton Brigade if they would've impeached him for Kosovo, and not the blowjob

They couldn't seeing as they did get international backing from NATO but not from the UN. Besides Lying under oath Is a better impeachable offense.

[theski]

SirNitram wrote:

Kerry has an administration? Oh, wait, he doesn't. So your 'compare administrations' claim is bullshit.

I think Durran was talking about Clinton.... I mentioned Kerry

[Joe]

What is so horrifically wrong about comparing the actions of different administrations? Pointing out how precedent set by one can affect the other?

Kerry has an administration? Oh, wait, he doesn't. So your 'compare administrations' claim is bullshit.

I was responding to Gil's accusations, not yours.

[Joe]

I didn't agree with the Kosovo war either, although I don't see how it could be an impeachable offense.

[SirNitram]

What is so horrifically wrong about comparing the actions of different administrations? Pointing out how precedent set by one can affect the other?

Kerry has an administration? Oh, wait, he doesn't. So your 'compare administrations' claim is bullshit.

I was responding to Gil's accusations, not yours.

So when will you be replying to what I've said? You know, about those 'intelligent political strategists' who are on record as believing Saddam had lost his metaphorical teeth?

[Joe]

So when will you be replying to what I've said? You know, about those 'intelligent political strategists' who are on record as believing Saddam had lost his metaphorical teeth?

Sorry, there are a lot of posts here.

To whom are you referring?

[SirNitram]

So when will you be replying to what I've said? You know, about those 'intelligent political strategists' who are on record as believing Saddam had lost his metaphorical teeth?

Sorry, there are a lot of posts here.

To whom are you referring?

These quotes, specifically, since you brought up his 'intelligent political strategists':

He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours. - Powell.

We are able to keep his arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt. - Rice

These, and presumably others, were dug up by an Aussie journalist.

Moreover, Bush and his people made repeated claims to know exactly where the WMD were, yet we're still looking around. Another flat out lie revealed for what it is.

As for the WMD we knew he had, the vast majority of his chem weapons are well past the point where they'll actually work, even if they weren't destroyed. All that would remain would be some Mustard Gas.

[Joe]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Karl Rove, people who would realize how badly a flat-out, intentional lie would endanger Bush at the polls.

Moreover, Bush and his people made repeated claims to know exactly where the WMD were, yet we're still looking around. Another flat out lie revealed for what it is.

No possibility of a good faith mistake, eh?

[SirNitram]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Karl Rove, people who would realize how badly a flat-out, intentional lie would endanger Bush at the polls.

Moreover, Bush and his people made repeated claims to know exactly where the WMD were, yet we're still looking around. Another flat out lie revealed for what it is.

No possibility of a good faith mistake, eh?

...How would you make a 'good faith mistake' in such a way? I mean, hell, even if they were off by a few klicks, something would have been found by now.

[Joe]

...How would you make a 'good faith mistake' in such a way? I mean, hell, even if they were off by a few klicks, something would have been found by now.

By misjudging bad intelligence to be good intelligence. I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a lie in this case, but as they say, never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.

[The Yosemite Bear]

*Grins*

Back during the administration of a different Bush I got ahold of the official report on the Chemical, Biological & Nuclear potential & forcasts for the whole of the third world. (This is before the first invasion of Iraq)

Let's just say I have been more concerned about Brazil, India, China, Argentina, Chile, & Korea then I have been with Iraq. In the middle east we have Egypt, Isreal & Libya with far more vast stocks of chemical, biological, and greater potential for nuclear weapons. However they are held in check because of the understanding of MAD doctorine (Isreal HAS nuclear weapons). Egypt has the largest stockpile of Chemical Weapons, and manufacturing capability in the region.

Erm I really am afraid of a China/India/Packistan/Taiwan & Korea getting into a furball.

[SirNitram]

...How would you make a 'good faith mistake' in such a way? I mean, hell, even if they were off by a few klicks, something would have been found by now.

By misjudging bad intelligence to be good intelligence. I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of a lie in this case, but as they say, never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.

I'll agree we can probably attribute alot of this morass to stupidity.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Always take any political action with a good dose of Niccolo Machevelli & P.T. Barnum.

Sadam was the classic "Bad General", all of politics is a game and a con.

[Johonebesus]

Sometimes, bureaucracies can generate unintentional lies. The leaders decide that x should be true, must be true, so all resources go to proving x is true. Those who help to prove x are rewarded and seen as team players, while those who argue against x or turn up evidence against x, even if only through honest work, are seen as not working for the team and are punished. No-one deliberately sets out to lie, but the desire to prove x true generates so much momentum that it overwhelms truth. This can be especially true in politics and the news media, where truth is often seen as something that can be manipulated or even fabricated rather than something that just is or is not.

However, as to the "We know what he has, and we know where it is" line, there is really no way to explain that as other than a flat out lie. If he had that kind of information, he should have been able to use it to convince more of our allies to help. If there was that much detailed intelligence that was that bad, we should see more heads rolling. I truly hope that claim was a lie, because the alternative is such gross incompetence that we might as well just dissolve the CIA and give up on intelligence.

My guess is that, as regards that claim, Gil is right; it was a gamble. The administration had convinced itself that WMD's were there, and Shrubby just "elaborated" on what must be the truth, firmly believing his self-deceptions that the weapons were there and would be found, none-the-less in full knowledge that what he said wasn't supported the intelligence.

[Stuart Mackey]

Allthough it is all poltical BS one has to wonder about statement like

"Who could possibly think that the world would be better off with Saddam Hussein still in power?"

Who could possibly think that Americans will get more jobs with Saddam Hussein out of power?

Hmm..thats a hard one, lets see. There is lots of building to be done, who else would be better than Haliburton? good, honest, apple pie American company that..Cheney and Bush both think so...

[RogueIce]

What is so horrifically wrong about comparing the actions of different administrations? Pointing out how precedent set by one can affect the other?

Kerry has an administration? Oh, wait, he doesn't. So your 'compare administrations' claim is bullshit.

Actually, Durran was comparing Clinton.

It was theski who brought up Kerry.