What are Turbolasers

[2000AD]

he was but his post has been deleted.

[Isolder74]

he was but his post has been deleted.

I guess i missed it

[2000AD]

I posted the message in as many of the threads that he trolled as I could but then my mouse broke down and i had to dig my old one out.

[Soontir C'boath]

Here is a nice shot of the effects of a blaster bolt, from an E-11:

ewwie gooey. Is that his guts coming out?

Cyaround,
Jason

[Utsanomiko]

"Captain, my guts are all up in smoke and flamage!!"
"Negative, it's just the blaster bolt exploding against your body. Let those sparks fly for the good of your Empire, Ensign!"

C'mon, burning guts in a PG movie? What color is the sky on your planet?

[Soontir C'boath]

Oh comon that part was probably what 2 seconds long?
Short enough for kids not to see.

Not to mention that I had a closer look with that shot then when I was in the movie theatre.

Cyaround,
Jason

[His Divine Shadow]

That shot was just a frame in lenght so I doubt anyone saw it.

[Isolder74]

That shot was just a frame in lenght so I doubt anyone saw it.

yes and unless we do a frame by frame its just a little puff of smoke

[Isolder74]

it seem the general consensase is that Turbolasers are a combination of particle and laser technologies. the closeness of the some majic principle seems to indicate that most of you recocnize that they can't possibly be pure lasers

[Connor MacLeod]

They're not.

However, I still have a problem with the "hybrid" particle/laser theory. What possible benefit would building both kinds of weapons into the same barrel give that having them as separate, indepedent weapons would not to justify the effort of building the weapon in such a fashion?

[Frank LLoyd Wright]

They're not.

However, I still have a problem with the "hybrid" particle/laser theory. What possible benefit would building both kinds of weapons into the same barrel give that having them as separate, indepedent weapons would not to justify the effort of building the weapon in such a fashion?

the conclusion I have reached that the Turbolaser is a hybrid technology is to try to explain the behavior of this weapon. I have observed how the beam is visible and the explosive nature of the target when hit and what apears to be weapon flack when near missed. There is even a transfer of kinetic force on targets when they are hit by the bolt suggesting a particl type weapon yet it is a beam like a laser weapon.

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm arguing the speed of the bolt is proportional to the lenght of the beam, which would be consistent

with movie visuals.
I am saying the longer the beam the longer the bolt, though to what ratio we don't know.
how long the beam fires also matters.

I believe the natural state of a TL is as a beam(as seen in AOTC), it's simpler to have it that way and such.
However it is definitly more effective against shields to somehow force the beam into a coherent bolt

that travels along an invisible beam, instant wattage advantage.

I think thats the reason for bolt weapons over beam weapons.

Now it seems like a disadvantage compared to the C moving versions of turbolasers that we have

observed, but in return they can pack the firepower into a package and deal the damage alot faster,

something thats quite important when dealing with SW shields, this is also why broadside

configurations are used, massed volleys are needed instead of a bunch of shots coming in over a longer

time duration.

It's creating a disadvantage yes, but in return one can more easily overwhelm shields.

This could explain accelerating bolts, dissapearing bolts and variable speeds.

-Accelerating bolt, imagine the beam firing and hitting a close target the bolt won't go faster even

if you fire it longer, but if the target is destroyed the beam will become longer the bolt might seem

to "accelerate"

-Dissaparing bolts, if the beam sustains the bolt's cohesion it might show why bolts dissapear after a

while, the beam moves at C and so will quickly outrun the bolt, a quick firetime by my theory would

generate a compact bolt that will not move that fast and which could quickly dissipate as the beam

outruns the bolt.

-Variable speeds would be caused by how long the bolt fires and wheter the beam hits a target near it

or not, if a longer beam makes a longer bolt it would also make this bolt faster, explaining why

bigger bolts seem to move faster

The bolt lenght probably varies too ofcourse, if the beam fires for a second against nothing it would

be 300tkm by the end, bolts in the movies usually traverse the distance to their target in a second or

less regardless of range, using my theory the bolt would travel at roughly C, this would work with the

quotes that say TL's and laser cannons strike at the speed of light, or rather as I see it, they can

strike at the speed of light if they wish.

This also explaines the seemingly variable ranges in engagements, they might need to get a good mix of

bolt propagation and wattage and possibly different battlescenes could impact this.

This is also why the turbolaser in Rebel Dream was able to have such a long reach, because it was

modified to fire for an entire minute.

So in order to get a bolt that will propagate quickly you have to fire it for a longer time(you also have to keep the beam there for a longer time so the bolt won't dissipate as quickly), decreasing wattage and by doing so, lowering the efficency against shields.

I believe this explains why bolt weapons are used over beam weapons, why they generally propagate slowly and range limitations and still is compliant with quotes that says LC's and TL's strike at the speed of light.

It gives combat a whole new depth and could explain why the Executor's bridge shields where able to be downed by the rebels in the first place.

[His Divine Shadow]

OH CRAP!

Here is a better version:
I am going to go on the idea here that the bolt is the damaging part, but it has a beam that impacts alot on the beams behavior and the beam does have some energy which explains the result before impact bit.

I'm arguing the speed of the bolt is proportional to the lenght of the beam, which would be consistent with movie visuals.
I am saying the longer the beam the longer the bolt, though to what ratio we don't know.
how long the beam fires also matters.

I believe the natural state of a TL is as a beam(as seen in AOTC), it's simpler to have it that way and such.
However it is definitly more effective against shields to somehow force the beam into a coherent bolt that travels along an invisible beam, instant wattage advantage.

I think thats the reason for bolt weapons over beam weapons.

Now it seems like a disadvantage compared to the C moving versions of turbolasers that we have observed, but in return they can pack the firepower into a package and deal the damage alot faster, something thats quite important when dealing with SW shields, this is also why broadside configurations are used, massed volleys are needed instead of a bunch of shots coming in over a longer time duration.

It's creating a disadvantage yes, but in return one can more easily overwhelm shields.

This could explain accelerating bolts, dissapearing bolts and variable speeds.

-Accelerating bolt, imagine the beam firing and hitting a close target the bolt won't go faster even if you fire it longer, but if the target is destroyed the beam will become longer the bolt might seem to "accelerate"

-Dissaparing bolts, if the beam sustains the bolt's cohesion it might show why bolts dissapear after a while, the beam moves at C and so will quickly outrun the bolt, a quick firetime by my theory would generate a compact bolt that will not move that fast and which could quickly dissipate as the beam outruns the bolt.

-Variable speeds would be caused by how long the bolt fires and wheter the beam hits a target near it or not, if a longer beam makes a longer bolt it would also make this bolt faster, explaining why bigger bolts seem to move faster

The bolt lenght probably varies too ofcourse, if the beam fires for a second against nothing it would be 300tkm by the end, bolts in the movies usually traverse the distance to their target in a second or less regardless of range, using my theory the bolt would travel at roughly C, this would work with the quotes that say TL's and laser cannons strike at the speed of light, or rather as I see it, they can strike at the speed of light if they wish.

This also explaines the seemingly variable ranges in engagements, they might need to get a good mix of bolt propagation and wattage and possibly different battlescenes could impact this.

This is also why the turbolaser in Rebel Dream was able to have such a long reach, because it was modified to fire for an entire minute.

So in order to get a bolt that will propagate quickly you have to fire it for a longer time(you also have to keep the beam there for a longer time so the bolt won't dissipate as quickly), decreasing wattage and by doing so, lowering the efficency against shields.

I believe this explains why bolt weapons are used over beam weapons, why they generally propagate slowly and range limitations and still is compliant with quotes that says LC's and TL's strike at the speed of light.

It gives combat a whole new depth and could explain why the Executor's bridge shields where able to be downed by the rebels in the first place.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I like. Could explain why the Rebels inexplicably had a chance and even won at the Battle of Endor (which they shouldn't have even with the loss of the Executor, the DS II, Palpatine, and Vader) that the Rebel guns were better able to fire more efficient anti-shield weapons that could be targeted and manuvered properly in a point-blank range battle.

[Frank LLoyd Wright]

That was the best discourse on the Turbolaser I have read so far.
Very well thought out and in line with what I have observed in the films.

[Isolder74]

That was the best discourse on the Turbolaser I have read so far.
Very well thought out and in line with what I have observed in the films.

and interesting too

[Illuminatus Primus]

Now if we can combine/merge this with the theory for lightsabres/blasters in the Lightsabre website and some other evidence that needs addressing, we could have a near-comprehensive explanation for many Star Wars energy weapons systems.

[omegaLancer]

The fact that the process that generate the hi energy level may require a combination Plasma/Electromagnetic burst.. Let assume that the TL is a form of advance graser of gamma ray laser.. In the case of Gamma ray laser the energy is actually released from stored energy of excited nucleons in the Nucleus..

Tibanna or blaster gas is normally harvest from the corona of star, the Nucleons would be charge by the fusion process of the star, the gas is then harvest and processed by embeding it in carbonatize (this is Stated in SWJ) ( which act like a stasis field locking the Nucleon in their excited state)..

The gas is then unfrozen and is force via a laser burst to release all the store enery, but now you have a plasma still in the firing chamber, it no longer useful for creating addition TL bolt ( the Nucleons are all in ground state), and the can damage the weapon, so is ejected via the same magnetic forces used to focus the bolt...

While the Bolt of invisible energy is the very powerful, the plasma is additional hazard, and can used as a tracer, but would give no advance warning to the target ( since the invisible component left first and is traveling at C and would beat the light emitted by the plasma which was eject later).

[His Divine Shadow]

So, what you are saying is:
-C speed invisible beam = KILL
-visible bolt = plasma waste

Well I have to disagree, the bolt cannot be plasma, it does not arc in gravity, it does not glow white as it should, and it can accelerate and dissapear very quickly, not things that plasma would do.

I also believe the bolt might be the killer of the two here, with the beam being more of a means to maintain coherency and the bolt being some form of energy, nothing with mass though.

[omegaLancer]

The glow of the plasma would be the function of several things. first the heat of the plasma, second the element composition of the plasma..

Only accelerating particles with charges emit light, ( like electrons), it just happen that all particles with a charge has mass, so it seem unlikily that it purily particle beam, cause that too would be effected by gravity..

Another approach it a bolt of Axions.... Very tiny mass, and no charge ( so they would be like neutrinos and travel very close to the speed of light, so close that it hard to tell the different. would emitted Photons ( glow) ( when exposed to Intense magnetic fields( so the glowing part can be axion that are interacting with the manetic fields that used to spin the beam) can be lased ( Axion have no spin so like photons they can concertated and have laser like properties).Most light axions weakily interact with matter ( but they would interact with the Quarks) so they can literally if the flux is hi enought destablitily Nucleus of atoms.. Or if they can emit photons if interacting with the electromagnetic fields of protons and electrons..

[His Divine Shadow]

Given that the would be plasma is travelling inside a beam at much higher intensity it cannot be green from temp, it would be white hot at once.

No, I simply do not believe in the plasma theory anymore(or any theory with mass or separation of bolt and beam as having two different natures), too unworkable for my tastes, nor does the movie fit with it's observed behavoiur still, acceleration and the dissipation, doesn't work.

What happens if you aim at a nearby object, which falls away at the last moment, leaving the shot to fly off to a greater distance?
The fact that it takes a nearly constant time for a shot to cross the screen, regardless of range, seems like a good sign that there's a continuous underlying beam, and that it's connected to the bolt more than just plasma along for the ride.
Plasma wich would explode to the sides in a white flash nonetheless.

[omegaLancer]

the best theory about TL is that they are soliton of electromagnetic energy. The fact that lasers can be made into soliton in fiber optic and some form of gas.. Soliton like structure like light bullet exhibit the varies type of behavior of TL bolt..

Problem is that to create a soliton requires a factor to cause the self focusing, gas medium, crystal and Fiber optic will do it. There are some work on soliton soliton interaction that would allow a light to continue this type of behavoir outside the medium for optical switching. interacting solitons would emit dark and light bands ( dark solitons). The source of the Glow?...

[His Divine Shadow]

It seems to be somewhat connected to the beam somehow, like a ripple, and it can exist for a short while after the beam stops too.
Maybe it uses stasis fields?

[Isolder74]

This topc was strted as a place for us to refer Trekies to if they ever try to pull the NO LASERS bull and to help us nail down just what a TurboLaser really is. It has more then met my expectations.