Spare the rod, spoil the child

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-29 02:31pm

A member of a rural Prince Edward Island commune says he once hit a child 39 times with a wooden rod as a disciplinary measure.

beating to death with cane for him,

electric chair for the other guy

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-29 02:41pm

WHY CAN'T WE TORTURE THESE MOTHERFUCKERS TO DEATH? Goddamned legal system ...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-29 02:51pm

Check out the Editor's comments from the American Family Rights Association regarding the second donkey-fucker (the one with the stungun):

American Family Rights Association wrote:AFRA EDITOR Comment- Can't spank 'em? STUN THEM! Something about "not the brightest bulb in the box" could be said here. But I wonder if it ever occurred to CPS to just say "You can't do that. Don't do it again". No, that's not today's way. Now, it's one strike and your family is DESTROYED.

Goddamn donkey-fuckers ... oh, poor guy lost his family because HE USED A FUCKING STUNGUN ON A LITTLE KID!!!!! I can't believe there are people out there who sympathize with the father on this one. As far as the AFRA editor is concerned, the worst thing we can say about the father is that he wasn't too bright. Why? Because he got caught? Why can't somebody beat some sense into these assholes, since they seem to think it's such a good idea when applied to little kids?

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-09-29 02:59pm

I am now reminded of a debate I once saw on corporal punishment in schools.

I now quote from the person who argued against it.

If I take this board (two inches thick), and hit an animal, it's cruelty to animals (smacks it against his hand for impact)

If I take this board and hit YOU, it's assault. (smacks it against his hand for impact)

If I take this board and hit a child, its [sarcasm]discipline[/sarcasm]

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-29 08:39pm

is corporal punishment (parents -> kids) legal in the states?

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-29 08:56pm

it varies state to state.

I think the perpetraters of this stun-gun, whack-away beleif system should be dragged out in the street and shot. While I do believe a good, swift swat to the butt (with the PALM) is good if used sparingly (like when a kid does something REALLY bad, that they know they shouldn't) the thought of hitting a kid for missing THE FUCKING BUS is too much. And fuck these people who use a fucking stungun or a fucking wooden paddle. That's way beyond fucking discipline

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-09-29 08:56pm

Spanking a child should be the very last form of discipline. Anything in excess is harmful. As well, anyone with an ounce of common sense should be able to tell the difference between a beating and discipline. For me, all I have to use is my voice. Even by using that, I don't scream like a moron. It's all in the tone. Thing about being a parent is that it doesn't come with an instruction manual along with your child. All you can do is glean some wisdom from others people, some good reference books, and your own trial-and-error. When you have a child, and realize that he is an individual like yourself and not some mere extension of you, then I think "crossing the line" in regards to discipline will be dramatically reduced.

XPViking

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-09-29 08:58pm

I should also make clear in my last post that I've never used (and never will)any kind of object (paddle, belt, stick, etc...) except my hand for a spanking.

XPViking

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-29 09:11pm

i think even spanking as a last resort is too much as well. there are so many other ways not involving physical violence, so why would you hit a 100 cm tall little kid???

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-29 09:17pm

"Sometimes a lesson in life is best learned when accompainied by a little pain."
-Ryu Jose, MOBILE SUIT: GUNDAM

Spanking as A LAST RESORT will teach a kid that s/he's doing something bad. It is not exsessive to give a kid a swat on the butt when they, oh say, kick the dog. Spank 'em, and they'll stop kicking the dog.

Little kids tend not to understand philisophical discipline (It's bad to throw paint because it will end up costing dad a lot of money) but they WILL understand that the bad stuff will earn them a smack (with the HAND), and they will learn to start setting limits for themselves.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-29 09:20pm

Pain is nature's way of telling you you're being stupid. Let's not overdo it.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2002-09-29 09:23pm

What's next? A kid getting a finger cut off for not obeying the dress code? Because "What if Jesus came back to Earth and judged us here?".

IMO, something like a ing is okay, even in schools, but jsut beating them to the point of injury is an atrocity. Parents who thier kids shouldn't be able to see their kids again.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-29 09:48pm

IG-88E wrote:"Sometimes a lesson in life is best learned when accompainied by a little pain."
-Ryu Jose, MOBILE SUIT: GUNDAM

But there is a differnce between that and wacking the kid's ass with a board or shocking them with a stun gun. That's taking it way way too far.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-29 09:49pm

I know. Notice that it accompanied me saying "with a HAND only"

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-29 09:51pm

IG-88E wrote:I know. Notice that it accompanied me saying "with a HAND only"

yes, I did noticed that.

It's just that sort of statement is the kind of senitment that most of those retards use.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-29 09:56pm

Idiots can twist anything. Take it with the context it was mentioned in and move on.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-29 09:57pm

IG-88E wrote:"Sometimes a lesson in life is best learned when accompainied by a little pain."
-Ryu Jose, MOBILE SUIT: GUNDAM

Spanking as A LAST RESORT will teach a kid that s/he's doing something bad. It is not exsessive to give a kid a swat on the butt when they, oh say, kick the dog. Spank 'em, and they'll stop kicking the dog.

Little kids tend not to understand philisophical discipline (It's bad to throw paint because it will end up costing dad a lot of money) but they WILL understand that the bad stuff will earn them a smack (with the HAND), and they will learn to start setting limits for themselves.

the kid will also stop kicking the dog if you use this VOICE on him and send him to his room and not let him go to see his friend or the tv or the play station for a while.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-09-29 10:05pm

IMO, and in my experience, a little pain is the FASTEST way to teach a kid that they're being bad.

Punishments should follow a ladder:

verbal warning
sent to the room
take away privliges
grounding
spanking

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-09-30 02:03am

Salm,

You've got to understand that kids will try to "push the envelope", as it were, to see how far they can get away with stuff. Perhaps I should define what I see as a spanking, based on my experience at the receiving end. When I did something really bad, then my father would call me. The VOICE (like out of Dune) would compel me to go. Down went the drawers, a few quick whacks with the hand, and I would be sobbing. My father never spanked me using all of his strength, only enough to get the job done. It was, I'd like to emphasize, reserved for disciplining serious infractions. Such as the time when I hit my friend with a hockey stick sending him to the hospital for stiches. The shame and guilt would sting more. I was never sent to go get the belt, paddle, or switch (even though our yard once had 20 willow tress).

I will give my son a quick swat to the bum, only if all other avenues have been exhausted. He is of the age that he realizes some behaviour is right, and some is wrong. Do I get pleasure when I give him a swat? No. Is it the first thing that I do? No. If a person does, then that person needs help.

Salm, with all due respect, unless you raise children then it may be difficult for you to see where I'm coming from. I hope that doesn't sound condescending, because it isn't meant to be. It really is a different realm when you are raising kids, as opposed to being single (or even looking after kids, say, at a daycare).

I'm not advocating a return to the wooden ruler back in the schools or anything. I'm just saying that as a society, we have swung the pendulum perhaps a bit to far when we deny any form of contact.

XPViking

salm · Post by **salm** » 2002-09-30 07:59am

surely they will push the envelope, but will they push it that far? from my own experience "no". my parents for example didnt hit me one single time and it worked. maybe i´m wrong, i dont have kids, and dont intend to have any.

as for the whacks, where did he whack you? on the head, face, butt? i guess there´s not that much of a problem with a couple of buttwhacks (even though i dont think i´d do that) but a slap in the face can accidentially cause permanent eyedamage.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » 2002-09-30 08:44am

salm wrote:surely they will push the envelope, but will they push it that far? from my own experience "no". my parents for example didnt hit me one single time and it worked. maybe i´m wrong, i dont have kids, and dont intend to have any.

I'm yet another of those not commenting from direct experience, but I've already got 11 nieces and nephews, and pay a great deal of attention to what my siblings and parents have to say about these sorts of things. So what I say is what I've picked up from listening to them.

And generally, it follows what the parents on here have said - it sucks to have to do it, but sometimes it seems like the only way. The main point my Dad made is that the punishment has to be close in time to the offense - otherwise it can be too hard for the child to work out _why_ they're getting punished, which means it becomes pointless abuse.

If you think about it, discipline is all about introducing negative effects for some action. Those negative effects take the form of emotional pain (parental disapproval, getting sent to your room, grounding) or physical pain (spanking). I don't see drawing a sharp distinction between physical and emotional pain as being significant - no matter which form of punishment I use, I am still causing a child pain in order to get them to do what I want. If it's excessive or arbitrary, then it is parental abuse. If it's measured and consistent, then it is parental discipline.

And, the fact is, a parent is justified in doing that, within the bounds of morality. Discipline is a tough call - it requires me to determine the acceptable rules of behaviour, and then enforce them. For me, as an adult, I see a moral code as self-enforcing: I don't behave the way I do out of some fear of punishment, I do it out of a recognition of the likely natural consequences of my actions. As a parent, I would of necessity be bringing my children up according to my own moral code - and the way of doing that is going to have to change according to the child's age, and their ability to recognise the consequences of their actions.

(Translation: I'll be winging it just as badly as anyone else when it comes to parenting!)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-30 09:42am

Nick wrote:And generally, it follows what the parents on here have said - it sucks to have to do it, but sometimes it seems like the only way. The main point my Dad made is that the punishment has to be close in time to the offense - otherwise it can be too hard for the child to work out _why_ they're getting punished, which means it becomes pointless abuse.

It depends on the kid. Some kids will never need any physical discipline. Others will. Some parents (especially those with single children) tend to believe that all of the world's children are represented by their own precious offspring (and those whose first child does not require physical discipline can often be harshly judgemental of other parents whose children do). This is a tempting thought, but when you start having more of them, you begin to realize that each child has a truly unique personality from Day One, and what worked with kid#1 may not work with kid#2.

If you think about it, discipline is all about introducing negative effects for some action.

Children are difficult to educate. Therefore, people tend to use a combination of education and conditioning. Conditioning is about positive reinforcement for desired actions and negative reinforcement for undesired actions. Negative reinforcement can take many forms; physical punishment is the least desirable of those forms. Take the analogy of dogs; they are conditioned, not educated. And while some mild forms of physical discipline may be required, they tend to take the form of a yank on a leash, not a beating. No one has ever beaten a dog as part of a reasonable or effective training program, unless they want to create a vicious, violent dog.

A dog has the mentality of a two-year old human child. There are a lot of people who would never strike their dog, but who would strike their children. Something to think about. As I said, I've spanked my kids only once, and I still feel bad about it.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-09-30 09:01pm

Salm,

A whack on the bum and that's it. Darth Wong summed it up best, children learn from a combination of education and conditioning. Let me emphasize again, a bum-whack is the last resort.

XPViking

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2002-09-30 09:25pm

That was the most disgusting thing I've read in at least a week. (Don't take that wrong, I read a lot of sickening things -- but that was right up there...)

Let me admit, though, that I believe in spanking. I don't believe in it for the purpose of inflicting eye-watering amounts of pain; I have never, and will never, spank a child more than once -- even for the most egregious offense, and never harder than I would slap a buddy on the shoulder. But it does get a child's attention, it does embarrass them into a sort of introspection (if done right) and it let's them know they've done something unacceptable when a parent's voice is insufficient.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-09-30 09:43pm

Who are you referring to Raoul? Me? If it is, then where did I ever say that one must spank a child so as to induce the child to endure "eye-watering amounts of pain"?

Besides which, if a bum whack will "get a child's attention, ... embarrass them into a sort of introspection (if done right) and it let's them know they've done something unacceptable when a parent's voice is insufficient" then usually the child will cry, not necessarily because of the pain but because they know they did something wrong.

So what is so "sickening" if you believe in spanking? As well, humans do learn from a combination of education and conditioning. Is that a shock to you?

XPViking