"Women like assholes better than nice guys!"

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-10-12 05:34pm

I've heard this opinion enough to believe that it is held by many, maybe even a majority of young (and some not so young) males. The purpose of this thread is to get to the bottom of why so many guys think that. Here's my opinion: Those who fancy themselves nice guys don't come on to the women. They don't let her know that they are attracted to her. They think women don't like them because they're nice, when in reality it's because they're meek and don't take initiative. A lot of times they will try to play the friend card first and go to a relationship from there, and (surprise surprise) get slapped with the wet fish of friendship as mentioned in another thread.

I know firsthand that women don't have an aversion to nice guys, as I'm a nice guy and have no trouble attracting high quality women (not bragging, just stating). Unlike the people who hold the opinion stated in the thread title, however, I let a women know that I'm attracted to her. Confidence and willingness to take iniative should not be confused with being an asshole, but it's no surprise that preening assholes happen to exude those traits (even if they're not really confident in themselves). In short, many guys think women are attracted to assholes, when in fact women respond well to a man who takes the initiave and communicates his attraction, and assholes have less hangups about doing those things than self-styled "nice guys".

That's my opinion, anyway. Now let's hear yours.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-10-12 05:35pm

I would never give the time of day to an asshole.

But i'm not a normal woman *shrug*

IndustrialNoise · Post by **IndustrialNoise** » 2003-10-12 05:37pm

Well, me being a woman, i like it much better when a guy lets me know he's interested. Most women will be polite about it if they dont return the feelings, but you never know, there are some bitches out there. If she turns out to be a bitch, don't worry about it, she doesnt deserve a guy.

I do like "bad boys", but not assholes. There's a difference. I think. lol

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-10-12 05:41pm

Younger, inexperience, or dysfunctional girls/women like asshole guys. But if you are a nice guy you actually would not want to go out with such a women. Not at least till they do some growing.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-12 05:42pm

I'm a nice guy, but that doesn't prevent me from attracting women (my spinelessness and fear would be the culprit there). Sure, assholes tend to be self-confident, but that doesn't mean nice guys can't have their shit together well enough to approach a woman.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-10-12 05:55pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:Younger, inexperience, or dysfunctional girls/women like asshole guys. But if you are a nice guy you actually would not want to go out with such a women. Not at least till they do some growing.

And by that time some of these girls may have something the recieved from the assholes.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-10-12 06:03pm

Women have no problem with "nice guys." It's just that women likes a guy that is assertive and has confidence. I'm a nice guy and I have no problem with teh ladies, then I have friends that are a lil bit more... aggressive about it (to the point of sexual harassment), but either it allows the girl to know you're interested and it seems to them that you are exciting and fun to be with. Women don't have an aversion to "nice guys," they have an aversion to guys that won't take no initiative and seems boring to be with.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-10-12 06:22pm

Durran Korr wrote:I'm a nice guy, but that doesn't prevent me from attracting women (my spinelessness and fear would be the culprit there). Sure, assholes tend to be self-confident, but that doesn't mean nice guys can't have their shit together well enough to approach a woman.

Very true. When i've bothered to actually go and do it, it's worked a great many more times than doing nothing, which has never worked, to my recollection. That said, i can be crushingly shy and spineless if they know that i fancy them...i hate that.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-10-12 06:59pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Those who fancy themselves nice guys don't come on to the women. They don't let her know that they are attracted to her. They think women don't like them because they're nice, when in reality it's because they're meek and don't take initiative. A lot of times they will try to play the friend card first and go to a relationship from there, and (surprise surprise) get slapped with the wet fish of friendship as mentioned in another thread.

Bugger me... in that small paragraph, you have entirely summed me up. Well, shit. However, I don't particularly think it's meekness on my part, more like total cluelessness.

EDIT: Best example of this was at the Sugarhouse last year, out in a suit due to a formal, and am walking to the bar with a mate slightly in front of me, random girl grabs me by the waist and winks at me, my response was to drop dead of shock, or something similar, it being the first time anything like that had happened, and not having a clue about what to do about this, I made polite excuses and went back to the bar.

I spent the next few hours resisting the temptation to smack my head against the wall.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2003-10-12 07:06pm

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... less.shtml

The Man With No Spine - A parable for "Nice Guys"
By John Russell

There once was a man without a spine.

He was a very likable guy. The advantage of not having a spine was that he could fit himself to anyone, and he frequently did. He could flex this way and that.

But he couldn't stand up ...

...and being kinda mushy and flat most of the time, people often walked on him without realizing he was there.

So he got sad, having this dreadful absence of a spine, and he was resentful too. He wondered why other people couldn't fit themselves to him the way he fit himself to others, but that was silly because he never felt he had the right to ask anyone directly to fit themselves to him. He was formless, what was there to fit to anyway? In cyberspace he talked tough as if he had a spine, but people could clearly see by his rage and resentment that he didn't have one in real life, and he perished in the flame wars he provoked and only came out feeling more ashamed and ineffectual.

He wished he could be with a woman, to help him the way a spine would. If he clung to a woman with a spine, he could stand up, but women didn't like it when he did that. He often called them "bitches" for the women with spines coldly asked him to let go of them, or unceremoniously shrugged him and his issues off onto the ground telling him to get his own spine.

If he fancied a spineless woman, on the other hand, he couldn't get her interest because they were looking for men with spines that they could cling to. But the spineless women would hang around with him for sympathy, and he'd be their platonic male friend and play "therapist" though he was as sick as they were. He'd often call himself a "feminist" and lecture these spineless women how to stand on their own when he had no idea of how to stand for himself.

With all the bending and flopping around he did, a spine never could get a chance to grow.

Then one day he had a brainstorm, he decided he'd make himself a spine.

He took a long stick.... and he put it far up his ass.

It was an improvement, though uncomfortable. It was the first time in his life he could walk tall, if not a bit stiff. He found he could have opinions at odds with others, and stand for them. He found out that he didn't have to be liked, that the world didn't end if he pissed someone off. He didn't want to fit easily with other people anymore, in fact he became inflexible.

People commented on the change, some people didn't particularly like him with the stick up his ass but they did notice him more. Some people felt that at least they could respect him, even if they didn't always like him because he did less whining. At least nobody stepped on him by accident.

However relationships still didn't come easy, it was hard for a woman with a spine to love him with the stick up his ass. He was stiff, cold, brutally opinionated, condescending, and self-righteously hostile. But eventually he did attract a very pretty woman without a spine who saw him as a tower of strength to cling to.

At first he loved this woman, he thought the stick up his ass was the answer to his dating problems. He was finally being loved the way he once loved others. At first it was great, and then it was good, and then it was ok, and then it was uncomfortable, and by the end of a year it was infuriatingly suffocating. The spineless woman clung like a straightjacket. The horror!!! The horror!!!

But the stick up his ass made him so inflexible he didn't know how to get the spineless woman off of him, If only he could bend. He was trapped, upright in his "obligations", "duty to her", "guilt", "pride in his commitment", he spent months with his arms helplessly flapping about trying to get her off of him and trying not to look like he was doing that.

He was hoping that she would leave by hinting her indirectly, he used sarcasic tones, said mean things that were "just a joke", neglect, "constructive" criticism intended to insult. He only made the spineless woman feel more insecure, so she clung HARDER.

Spineless men envied him, called him a jerk for the way he was treating her, just the way he remembered how he used to envy other men before he had the stick up his ass (when he'd play consoler to their teary-eyed spineless girlfreinds). If only they knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of a spineless person's embrace they'd understand. He wished she'd leave him for one of the spineless men who envied him. He felt ashamed for the way he must have made women feel in the past when he was trying to cling to them, he knew that they weren't so evil after all.

One day he decided that there was only one way to be free of the spineless woman once and for all, the stick up his ass had to go.

So he pulled the stick out, and to his amazement a miracle happened: he was still standing! All of the years of inflexibility allowed him the chance to grow a spine. At first he was still a bit stiff but eventually he had the flexibility to contort a bit and yet maintained the firmness to struggle, push, and wriggle from the spineless woman's grasp (though she protested much). He stayed far out of her reach and the reach of other spineless women so that he could never be grasped by one again.

He was overjoyed with his new-found freedom; he could bend sometimes like he used to (but not too far) and also he could stand tall. He went out, partied, enjoyed life to the fullest, and eventually found a woman with a normal spine like his.

They stood together as separate individuals giving mutual support and enjoying time alone too, and lived (relatively) "happily ever after"...

The end

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-10-12 07:16pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I've heard this opinion enough to believe that it is held by many, maybe even a majority of young (and some not so young) males. The purpose of this thread is to get to the bottom of why so many guys think that. Here's my opinion: Those who fancy themselves nice guys don't come on to the women. They don't let her know that they are attracted to her. They think women don't like them because they're nice, when in reality it's because they're meek and don't take initiative. A lot of times they will try to play the friend card first and go to a relationship from there, and (surprise surprise) get slapped with the wet fish of friendship as mentioned in another thread.

I know firsthand that women don't have an aversion to nice guys, as I'm a nice guy and have no trouble attracting high quality women (not bragging, just stating). Unlike the people who hold the opinion stated in the thread title, however, I let a women know that I'm attracted to her. Confidence and willingness to take iniative should not be confused with being an asshole, but it's no surprise that preening assholes happen to exude those traits (even if they're not really confident in themselves). In short, many guys think women are attracted to assholes, when in fact women respond well to a man who takes the initiave and communicates his attraction, and assholes have less hangups about doing those things than self-styled "nice guys".

That's my opinion, anyway. Now let's hear yours.

You're basically right. A lot of nice guys expect the world to come to them instead of growing balls, sucking in their guts and asking the girls that they want out. Then they piss and moan when said girls end up with the loud, boisterous, attention-grabbing jock types who treat them like shit.

Well, exactly what do you nice guys expect when you're busy sulking in a corner about how the world hasn't handed you the girl of your dreams on a platter? Girls like nice guys, but they hate having to pursue any guy. Yes it sucks that we make such a complex clusterfuck out of reproduction, but that's the way it is. Men generally pursue women because men are more competitive and stupid. Women are also the ones who desire to be impressed by their men, while men desire to impress their women. When was the last time you say a guy go "Awww, that's so sweet" when his girlfriend gave him his birthday present (blowjobs notwithstanding)?

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-10-12 08:46pm

*golf claps*

Yay. I like this thread.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-12 08:50pm

By the same line of reasoning, women could be justified in saying that men are more interested in braindead blondes with big jugs than in intelligent women.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-10-12 09:01pm

Durran Korr wrote:By the same line of reasoning, women could be justified in saying that men are more interested in braindead blondes with big jugs than in intelligent women.

Wouldn't they be right though?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-12 09:02pm

Well...yeah, kind of.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-10-12 09:04pm

Well, I've never had a woman, so I just think that all guys that do are assholes. Jealousy.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-10-12 09:27pm

Does that mean I'm an asshole?

Laird · Post by **Laird** » 2003-10-12 09:40pm

Crayz9000 wrote:Does that mean I'm an asshole?

ditto?

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2003-10-12 10:46pm

You might be. It depends on how you are with poeople; I'm not in a position to comment.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-12 11:05pm

Laird wrote:
Crayz9000 wrote:Does that mean I'm an asshole?
ditto?

It is in your title, after all.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2003-10-12 11:48pm

Well, in my eyes this thread should clear up a lot of things.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-13 12:08am

In my experience, there are 5 reasons why a guy might say that women prefer assholes over nice guys:

Time after time, Mr. Nice Guy has been interested in a girl but never made his move or made such a fool out of himself while trying that he either had no chance or blew whatever chance he had. The end result was that the girl ended up going out with some other guy. The other guy might actually be a nice guy for all we know, but Mr. Nice Guy is jealous, so he calls him an asshole.
Same scenario as above, but the other guy really is an asshole.
Selective memory. Of all the couples he knows, Mr. Nice Guy tends to focus on the ones where the guy happens to be an asshole. By doing so, he reinforces a stereotype which is subconsciously designed to make him feel better about his personal lack of success with women.
Mr. Nice Guy is actually an asshole and doesn't realize it, so he looks for excuses to blame the reluctant objects of his desire rather than himself.
Mr. Nice Guy is only interested in women who look like swimsuit models. Such women tend to be gold-diggers, so they go after rich guys. Rich guys have a marked tendency to be assholes (it comes with both the alpha-male Type-A personality businessman personality profile and the spoiled rich kid profile), so as far as he's concerned, all of the desirable women want assholes. Mr. Nice Guy doesn't even notice all of the not-so-obviously beautiful girls beneath his radar (actually, this is just a repeat of the previous list item).

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-13 01:19am

That site you posted on "Care and Feeding of your platonic friend" seems relevant here.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-10-13 04:22am

Well, some of the females I have had crushes on actually said to me that I am too direct about it and that I would have more success if I first build up friendship with said females and then admitted my love to them after having known them well for a long time.

Am a borderline jerk or are they lying?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-10-13 04:37am

There is no one approach that will work with all females.

Some will prefer a direct approach and others will prefer working their way into it very slowly.

more success if I first build up friendship with said females and then admitted my love to them

Although frankly, it sounds like the ladies you've been talking to have been reading a bit too much romance fiction.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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