Israel ready to strike Iran nuclear sites

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-10-12 10:45am

Haaretz

Iran's Air Force was no slouch in the Iran-Iraq War- if they see the Israelis coming, Iranian F-4s, F-14s and MiG-29s will almost certainly try and intercept. This could get very interesting- especially considering it's a long flight and will require drop tanks, for sure. Presumably, Israeli planes will have to fly over Iraq to get there. Which means American permission.

In the same article, a claim that Israel's Dolphin SSKs now have nuclear Harpoon missiles- has this been done before? I doubt it's true.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-12 11:10am

Vympel wrote:Haaretz

Iran's Air Force was no slouch in the Iran-Iraq War- if they see the Israelis coming, Iranian F-4s, F-14s and MiG-29s will almost certainly try and intercept. This could get very interesting- especially considering it's a long flight and will require drop tanks, for sure. Presumably, Israeli planes will have to fly over Iraq to get there. Which means American permission.

In the same article, a claim that Israel's Dolphin SSKs now have nuclear Harpoon missiles- has this been done before? I doubt it's true.

Iran has working F-4s and F-14s?

I knew they had F-14s (it's cool/weird seeing them painted in desert cammo) but the last I heard none of them were flying. This was even after the Iran/Contra thing when we sold them parts and stuff.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-10-12 11:25am

Tsyroc wrote:Iran has working F-4s and F-14s?

Yup. They have their own aviation infrastructure that keeps some of them flying.

I knew they had F-14s (it's cool/weird seeing them painted in desert cammo) but the last I heard none of them were flying. This was even after the Iran/Contra thing when we sold them parts and stuff.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-10-12 03:59pm

The condition of Iran's F-14 is questionable. They might be able to fly but can they fight? It would not surprise me any Isreali strike on Iran would receive American support in the form of AWACS or refueling. Can Isreali aircraft use air to air refueling?

How many planes did the Iranians get from Iraq in the first war? Quite a few if I recall. I would think the primary threat to an Israeli attack would be anti-air missiles and such.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-10-12 04:34pm

Sounds like another premptive strike is about to be taken by the I"D"F .

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-12 05:02pm

Vympel wrote:Haaretz

Iran's Air Force was no slouch in the Iran-Iraq War- if they see the Israelis coming, Iranian F-4s, F-14s and MiG-29s will almost certainly try and intercept. This could get very interesting- especially considering it's a long flight and will require drop tanks, for sure. Presumably, Israeli planes will have to fly over Iraq to get there. Which means American permission.

The IAF wouldn't fly in and drop iron bombs; I highly doubt Iran is stupid enough to defend the sites with a single air defence battery as the brilliant Iraqi's did. They're going to stand off and chuck in a large salvo of Popeye's. They could do this flying among normal US military air traffic over the gulf. Iran wouldn't know it's under attack until they picked up a cluster of inbound missiles.

In the same article, a claim that Israel's Dolphin SSKs now have nuclear Harpoon missiles- has this been done before? I doubt it's true.

It's very wildly believed that there is a nuclear version of the turbojet powered Popeye variant under devolopment, if not already in service. The weapon can be sub launched.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-12 05:24pm

Hoo boy. This could get rather ugly.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-10-12 05:27pm

Also, Israel; does not need to attack via aircraft against the Iranians. An Israeli sub in the Persian Gulf could also do the trick by launching a cruise missile.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-10-12 05:32pm

Can anyone predict the repercussions of such an act?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-12 05:37pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:Also, Israel; does not need to attack via aircraft against the Iranians. An Israeli sub in the Persian Gulf could also do the trick by launching a cruise missile.

Israel's SSK's are not very large, and this is a many missile job. A single boat probably couldn't carry enough to do it, and it would have to launch them over a prolonged period. Also it would have to remain in the area for some time and be venerable to counter attack. Isreal's F-15E's can shoot and scoot in minutes.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-10-12 05:49pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Can anyone predict the repercussions of such an act?

The Middle East goes to hell for the millionth time?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-10-12 06:21pm

And who the hell is smack dab in the middle between Israel and Iran, that's right!, the U.S. So when the shit starts marching east or west, it goes through our guys. That's just absofuckinglutely perfect!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-10-12 09:05pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:The condition of Iran's F-14 is questionable. They might be able to fly but can they fight?

According to some sources, they've been rebuilt by the Russians, with a different radar and engine and with a glass cockpit. The last confirmed kill by an Iranian Tomcat was in 1988, shooting down an Iraqi Mirage F1. As of 2000, estimates are 30 airworthy F-14s out of a total of 50-55 (others are down with various and sundry issues at any given time).

The F-14 tended to be used as an AWACS during the Iran-Iraq war due to both its powerful radar and the fact that the Iranian Tomcats were sabotaged so as to not be capable of firing the Phoenix missile (it's been suggested that Iran may have sold some Phoenixes to the USSR, jumpstarting the development of the AA-9 Amos, but the evidence is very incomplete...I personally doubt it).

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-10-12 09:07pm

Wait, what part of the cunning Israeli strategy is this? 'Get our top secret plan to launch a surprise attack on Iranian nuclear assets pasted all over the web'?

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-10-12 10:36pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Wait, what part of the cunning Israeli strategy is this? 'Get our top secret plan to launch a surprise attack on Iranian nuclear assets pasted all over the web'?

If there is any actual basis to this, or even if there is not, this sort of thing is just a freindly reminder from Isreal to its mates in Iran and elseware that they are watching, planning and can do something if they need to.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-12 10:41pm

I doubt if there was an Israeli overflight of Iraq they would actually have permission persay. What would actually happen is that the American air controllers in Iraq would simply fail to notice the Israeli strike force, and it would never be detected. If any Israelis had to come down in Iraq, of course, they would undoubtably be detained but under far better conditions possible than in any Arab country--alive, for example--and ultimately repatriated to Israel after the Israelis made some token monetary commisuration to the Iraqi provisional government, perhaps.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-12 11:34pm

It's like they're begging for another regional war.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-10-12 11:43pm

Well, the Middle East is pretty much in a handbasket, and heading to a nice warm place. Anything else new?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-13 12:30am

The Dark wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:The condition of Iran's F-14 is questionable. They might be able to fly but can they fight?
According to some sources, they've been rebuilt by the Russians, with a different radar and engine and with a glass cockpit.

LOL!

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-10-13 12:45am

Howedar wrote:
The Dark wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote:The condition of Iran's F-14 is questionable. They might be able to fly but can they fight?
According to some sources, they've been rebuilt by the Russians, with a different radar and engine and with a glass cockpit.
LOL!

Behold! the Tomcatski!

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-13 12:46am

Howedar wrote:
The Dark wrote:According to some sources, they've been rebuilt by the Russians, with a different radar and engine and with a glass cockpit.
LOL!

Common now, I had to listen to someone argue that Tanzania had bought Su-27's and Type 90 tanks from China, and was poised to invade Zambia to seize full control of then nations mineral wealth. This would be a distraction prior to the PRC seizing Taiwan

Might make some fun fiction, but this person was serious..

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-10-13 12:54am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Howedar wrote:
The Dark wrote:According to some sources, they've been rebuilt by the Russians, with a different radar and engine and with a glass cockpit.
LOL!
Common now, I had to listen to someone argue that Tanzania had bought Su-27's and Type 90 tanks from China, and was poised to invade Zambia to seize full control of then nations mineral wealth. This would be a distraction prior to the PRC seizing Taiwan

Might make some fun fiction, but this person was serious..

Sounds like a good {

} Dale Bown novel

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-13 02:03am

Stuart Mackey wrote: Sounds like a good { } Dale Bown novel

Na, he's too obsessed with the "Ripped from the headlines...because I can't come up with jack shit on my own" plots. Now change it to Zimbabwe invading Zambia, taking a page from Richard Herman and throw in a Bioweapons lab, and arm them all with western European superweapons, too much Russian and Chinese ass kicking so far, and we've got a book.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-10-13 06:37am

Whether Israel can use Popeyes or not in the attack depends on where the targeted sites are- also, Popeyes range isn't that good- 150km at best, IIRC.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-10-13 08:44am

Sea Skimmer wrote:Na, he's too obsessed with the "Ripped from the headlines...because I can't come up with jack shit on my own" plots. Now change it to Zimbabwe invading Zambia, taking a page from Richard Herman and throw in a Bioweapons lab, and arm them all with western European superweapons, too much Russian and Chinese ass kicking so far, and we've got a book.

Nothing wrong with trying to use the real world in stories for inspiration. I'm not sure the way the story is heading. I thought I liked it better back before the Tin Man idea.

And there ARE some positive aspects in Dale Brown books. Don't know whether it is his Air Force background, or is he just lucky, but he's the first man I know who writes in an IRST for Soviet fighters.

They are also more enthusiastic in DEFEATING jamming, stealth and HARMs. In other novels, I get the impression they just kind of fly and wait for the burnthrough. When the HARMs fly, it is curtains, and stealth is pretty much REALLY invisible.

Now, not being AF, I don't know how much of his book's counter jamming techniques are feasible (I suppose the tricks with the optronics had a chance but I'm not sure whether you can really set up things like an "azimuth only lock on" that would supposedly defeat trackbreakers at the price of not getting a lock.) But it is certainly nice to see them trying.

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