Darth Fanboy wrote:The New Republic was always being challenged because people perceived them as weak. No one with an Eclipse SSD is percieved as weak. Although the republic wanted to avoid becoming another Empire it still needed to find a balance between centralied authoirty and loose confederation that it never had. That Eclipse, combined with a Dominator Class Interdictor on teir own would be enough for me.
You need a Sovereign + Dominator, or 1 Eclipse (IIRC the Eclipse got grav interdiction built in) - a one man fleet complete with 600 fighters (50 squadrons.)
The New Republic does not want to look too strong. They'd rather err on the side of Weak than Strong to avoid bringing up ugly Imperial memories. That costs them when the Vong came in.
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Use megafreighters and pack the troops in to berthings ten-high in subdivided cargo compartments with others reserved for oxygen equipment and food. It'll suck real bad to get sent somewhere on one but you could probably carry a few million troops aboard a single ship.
I dunno If I can agree with that particular idea. That seems liek an awful lot of troops in one bucket. If it got smoked that would be a huge loss. Id scale that back to two smaller ships each with half of that particular compliment.
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The NR lacks in the way of flexability rather than actual strength. Their fleets need to be arranged in cellular fashion for quick reaction rather than uber fleet concentrations.
Someting akin to; four cruisers or battlecruisers (Mon Cal type, various models 80, 80a, 90, ect) with two escorts per cruiser on the par of assult frigate or frigate with a small mix of destroyers and smaller craft. That also gives you a two fighter wing capacity with every battlegroup.
About four or five battlegroups per taskforce. The taskforce would have a fleet carrier attached to it's command group as well as other assets that come and go such as picket ships, transports, ect.
Five taskforce's per fleet with the addition of a fleet command vessel. The Command Battle Group of the Fleet would in addition to its four cruisers, one command vessel, and escorts, have attached to it picket ships (to include interdictors if available), Fleet carrier, transports, assult transports, and other support ships.
That gives you a fleet strength of around 300 combat ships per fleet without counting interdictors, fleet carriers, and supportcraft. Sounds small, but most of the threats, pre Vong, are small threats. A taskforce of this size could have dealt with Daala and such.
I could be thinking too small, but I still believe that flexibility is more important to the NR than total strength.
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You have to be very careful when using a certain cultures ships. IIRC teh Bothans threatened to recall all their Assault Cruisers at one point in the early stages of the YV crisis. To use so many of a particular species ship is to give them a big hold over you politically.
Kuja wrote:I wouldn't bother asking for an Eclipse, the Senate would never go for it.
I'd try persuading them to approve a new run of Executor-class ships (or at least Allegiance-class) from KDY, backed up by the various cruiser types of Mon Calamari, and increased orders of E-wings and K-wings.
See I don't think you really need to go down the route of the Executor or Alleigance-class vessels for a couple reasons. First the Alleigance is probably already outclassed by the MC90 (hell the NR expected 3 of 'em to take on the 8mile version of an SSD in the Zsinj campaign). Secondly the Executor design is rather grossly expensive and requires getting KDY to work for you when their cooperation is iffy. Besides you have the Viscount and mediator designs coming online from the MonCal in the near future so they should more than fill the role of commandship and battleship/battlecruiser.
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CmdrWilkens wrote:See I don't think you really need to go down the route of the Executor or Alleigance-class vessels for a couple reasons. First the Alleigance is probably already outclassed by the MC90 (hell the NR expected 3 of 'em to take on the 8mile version of an SSD in the Zsinj campaign).
Wait, I thought the Zsinj campaign predated the MC90's entry into fleet service? Or are you referring to the MC80B?
Secondly the Executor design is rather grossly expensive and requires getting KDY to work for you when their cooperation is iffy. Besides you have the Viscount and mediator designs coming online from the MonCal in the near future so they should more than fill the role of commandship and battleship/battlecruiser.
OTOH, we have Guardian and Lusankya to work with if we need a pair of super-sized fleet combatants.
Lord Pounder wrote:You have to be very careful when using a certain cultures ships. IIRC teh Bothans threatened to recall all their Assault Cruisers at one point in the early stages of the YV crisis. To use so many of a particular species ship is to give them a big hold over you politically.
That's because the Bothan ships were not under NRDF command, but rather under the Bothans and lent out to the NRDF as a whole. This fleet is the 'federal' fleet and not subject to nonsense like that.
CmdrWilkens wrote:See I don't think you really need to go down the route of the Executor or Alleigance-class vessels for a couple reasons. First the Alleigance is probably already outclassed by the MC90 (hell the NR expected 3 of 'em to take on the 8mile version of an SSD in the Zsinj campaign).
Wait, I thought the Zsinj campaign predated the MC90's entry into fleet service? Or are you referring to the MC80B?
I was pretty certain that the Mon Karren was an MC90 though it could have been an MC80B
phongn wrote:
Secondly the Executor design is rather grossly expensive and requires getting KDY to work for you when their cooperation is iffy. Besides you have the Viscount and mediator designs coming online from the MonCal in the near future so they should more than fill the role of commandship and battleship/battlecruiser.
OTOH, we have Guardian and Lusankya to work with if we need a pair of super-sized fleet combatants.
True they could serve as a sort of independent fleet with several otehr major combatants just to be the heavy end of the hammer when offensive operations commence. In other words hit hard and fast with both SSDs and a support group then let the regular fleets follow up.
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-Kingdom of Heaven
CmdrWilkens wrote:See I don't think you really need to go down the route of the Executor or Alleigance-class vessels for a couple reasons. First the Alleigance is probably already outclassed by the MC90 (hell the NR expected 3 of 'em to take on the 8mile version of an SSD in the Zsinj campaign).
I dunno, the MC90 is I hear good, but that good?
Besides the logic here is the the MC90 is superior to the allegiance because three of them can take on an WEG-SSD, we have no idea what an Allegiance is capable of in order to make that argument work.
And the 8km version of the SSD is in terms of guns isn't that impressive even to ISD's, it only outclasses them in heavy guns by 58 weapons.
That means 4 ISD's outnumber a WEG-SSD in heavy weapons, and even three ISD's alone probably can concentrate their collective firepower much better than any one WEG-SSD could do against them.
Frankly, given the WEG-SSD's pathetic stats I don't see three ISD-II's beating the snot out of it as that big a deal, ofcourse that is WEG info that...
Last edited by His Divine Shadow on 2003-10-13 04:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CmdrWilkens wrote:
I was pretty certain that the Mon Karren was an MC90 though it could have been an MC80B
80Bs.
CmdrWilkens wrote:
True they could serve as a sort of independent fleet with several otehr major combatants just to be the heavy end of the hammer when offensive operations commence. In other words hit hard and fast with both SSDs and a support group then let the regular fleets follow up.
Well, you could just float proposals for a design to replace the Executor in fleet service with the requirement being identical or better performance in all categories but reduced production cost? See if anyone can come up with something.
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CmdrWilkens wrote:
I was pretty certain that the Mon Karren was an MC90 though it could have been an MC80B
80Bs.
Um. Mon Remonda was an MC80B. The other two(Mon Karren and Mon delidno) were Mon Cals of "more ordinary strengh" they only carrired 3 fighters a peice, so they were either MC80 or MC80A
World Devestator style factories are your friend. Get funding for those, with programming that prohibits targetting inhabitable worlds, and you can build your own fleet t the specifications you want, without needing anything more than crews from the NR government. Of course, getting the NR naval appropriations morons to authorise this could be problematic.
Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
You need a Sovereign + Dominator, or 1 Eclipse (IIRC the Eclipse got grav interdiction built in) - a one man fleet complete with 600 fighters (50 squadrons.)
The New Republic does not want to look too strong. They'd rather err on the side of Weak than Strong to avoid bringing up ugly Imperial memories. That costs them when the Vong came in.
Damned be the people who err on the side of weakness, As a military commander, I care more about protecting these people than I do about appealing to them. My Eclipse/Dominator COmbination and whatever support craft I built up around it would remain out of sight for the most part, and should the threat of an outside fleet come along the Republic citizens will be awfully damned happy to see the firepower their government brings to bear.
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"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
CmdrWilkens wrote:
I was pretty certain that the Mon Karren was an MC90 though it could have been an MC80B
80Bs.
Okay I was wrong, still if they think that highly of the 80B that only speaks more to the 90 which was half my point anyway.
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
CmdrWilkens wrote:
True they could serve as a sort of independent fleet with several otehr major combatants just to be the heavy end of the hammer when offensive operations commence. In other words hit hard and fast with both SSDs and a support group then let the regular fleets follow up.
Well, you could just float proposals for a design to replace the Executor in fleet service with the requirement being identical or better performance in all categories but reduced production cost? See if anyone can come up with something.
I think the Viscount is probably about the bill fitter there. It appears, by all reference, to be of equal size or greater with Home One while being purpose built for combat which means it ought to carry a far greater proportion of weapons.
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War Droids, cut down on the personnel requirements. though they arent effective in the clone wars era, id dare say that the X1 Vipers and SD-10 generation showed that they could be workable. Droid Fighters for outlying settlements that cannot afford large amounts of trained pilots but need some sort of fighter support. Clones will not be allowed so the best method to get a readily aviliable supply of soldiers to obey your every order is Droids.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." -George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
It potentially could eradicate most or all official data on the "Super Star Destroyer" (I refuse to call them an Executor,) because length is related to likely combat capacity, which affects all its results in battle.
There is no way WEG erases what is clearly demonstrated in the movies. 8km are the concoction of Trek fans collectively shitting their pants at the thought of One showing up over San Francsico.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little." -George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting." -Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
Darth Fanboy wrote:There is no way WEG erases what is clearly demonstrated in the movies. 8km are the concoction of Trek fans collectively shitting their pants at the thought of One showing up over San Francsico.
I'm more thinking in WEG's insistence it is the wrong length, they are erasing themselves from the continuity.
So? has no bearing on my point at all. That the Mon Karren wasn't an MC80B but an MC80 or MC80A
