"Women like assholes better than nice guys!"

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-10-14 04:31am

Gandalf wrote:As a "nice guy" (who even my ex who I think hates me with a fiery vengeance admits that) The problem is that women tend to always see me as a friend, rather than something more. Is there a way around this?

Dude, the problem is that you aren't acting like yourself around them. Seriously, this is the #1 problem for guys who have the whole "just-friends" problem; they always end up trying to hard and acting too nice. It's not bad to be nice, it's just that if you act different then you normally would girls can tell and they think you are trying too hard.

The hard part about this is that guys like you (and about a million other guys) are afraid that what they are really like isn't good enough to get the girl that they want. This is primarily a self-esteem issue that isn't easy to fix.

The best way to combat this is just to start talking to any random girl you think you might be interested in. Start with the unattractive ones (sorry girls but this is a neccessary step for guys) to help build yourself up then talk to the attractive ones and tell yourself that you don't care where this conversation goes. If they tell you to get fucked, fine, just move on to the next. This isn't easy but with a little practice you will get better at it and girls will start to admire you for your tenacity. And just be yourself dude. That's the most important thing.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-10-14 04:39am

The Kernel wrote: The best way to combat this is just to start talking to any random girl you think you might be interested in. Start with the unattractive ones (sorry girls but this is a neccessary step for guys) to help build yourself up then talk to the attractive ones and tell yourself that you don't care where this conversation goes. If they tell you to get fucked, fine, just move on to the next. This isn't easy but with a little practice you will get better at it and girls will start to admire you for your tenacity. And just be yourself dude. That's the most important thing.

Bingo. Eureka. Yatzi.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-10-14 06:57am

The Kernel wrote:Dude, the problem is that you aren't acting like yourself around them. Seriously, this is the #1 problem for guys who have the whole "just-friends" problem; they always end up trying to hard and acting too nice. It's not bad to be nice, it's just that if you act different then you normally would girls can tell and they think you are trying too hard.

The hard part about this is that guys like you (and about a million other guys) are afraid that what they are really like isn't good enough to get the girl that they want. This is primarily a self-esteem issue that isn't easy to fix.

The best way to combat this is just to start talking to any random girl you think you might be interested in. Start with the unattractive ones (sorry girls but this is a neccessary step for guys) to help build yourself up then talk to the attractive ones and tell yourself that you don't care where this conversation goes. If they tell you to get fucked, fine, just move on to the next. This isn't easy but with a little practice you will get better at it and girls will start to admire you for your tenacity. And just be yourself dude. That's the most important thing.

The problem is that I am being myself. However the point of your post is not lost on me. I've got schoolies week coming up so I shall have practice for your theory.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-10-14 05:38pm

I used to blame my inability to attract a woman on assholes. It actually was a viable excuse the last time i feel for a woman. I'd fell head over heels for this beautiful woman in my MCP class. She was pretty, but i see pretty women every day and i put her in my spank bank and moved on. Then i got to know her. I liked her as a person as well as he being a babe. I waited for months to make a move. I agonised over what to say to her in the pub. I planned everything i would say to let her know i was interested, i even told my friend Ray about how i self and what i'd say to her. I'm pretty sure she liked me too. Ray, the asshole in this story, took every thing i was gonna say, did all the things with her i planned to do. They now live togeather and will live happily every after, untill i get that sniper rifle i ordered from E-Bay.

Now i try to believe in myself. I also believe in the law of averages, if i ask enough people out one of them is bound to be single and willing.

The point is it's way to easy to blame others for your own failings. Go out and make things happen.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-10-14 11:16pm

Pounder, that was fucking low. I'd have kicked the shit out of the guy, personally. That sucks that it happened to you.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-10-14 11:26pm

My current problem is one of absence of necessity - until I was 16, I was the classic nerd in that I had no social life, after 16, I discovered a group of friends who I didnt know I had, and have had a fantastic few years (even though I've known some of them all my life, it only really became obvious to me how good a friend they were until then) but the group was a group with women who werent interested in going any further than good friends, which was fine by me. So I hung out with that group, we didnt do clubbing or anything other than going down the pub, when you tend to stick with the same group. So I went to Uni and had a crap time for the first few terms, very lonely and unsure of myself in terms of confidence, and only got to know people in the last term. But then the year was over, and I was back with the old group.

In short, I have zero experience, I can't get my head around the concept of meeting people in clubs or anything, (self confidence issues partly to blame, probably), I have no idea how I would ask a woman out or anything. I am as clueless as they come, but one thing I can be is myself, and I do that rather well. Quite where that will take me, I've no idea...

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-10-14 11:28pm

I'm with Durandal, go raise some hell. For an interesting shot at irony though, you could make him seem like the asshole to her. Then swoop in as the good guy. That's what I'd do.

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-10-14 11:48pm

--My two cents:
-Bad guys exude and air of power and confidence which are really attractive to women. Nice guys on average do not as much, they are nice.
-Women are less attracted to men who fawn all over them (e.g., make a nice pet) and compromise their desires for the women too often (i.e., wooped). Instead they seem to like someone who is "in charge" and shows leadership qualities. Bad guys rairly fawn all over "their woman," often "wear the pants," but are rarely constant assholes and can be very thoughtful.
-[random thought]Why do people abandon perfectly good communication methods (e.g., plain English) when it comes to romance and instead opt for body laquage, hints, inuendo and all manner of ambiguous communication methods???[/random thought]

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-10-14 11:54pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:In other words, try to make her interested in me??

That's basically it.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-10-15 12:04am

Gandalf wrote:I'm with Durandal, go raise some hell. For an interesting shot at irony though, you could make him seem like the asshole to her. Then swoop in as the good guy. That's what I'd do.

That's not a good idea, and I wasn't advocating it since the two have obviously together for a good measure of time. If it was me at the bar right after I heard the worthless twat start using my material, I'd have made sure to let him know of my disappointment in him. At this point for Pounder though, it's a lost cause. If he gets invited to their wedding or something, I'd R.S.V.P. and tell the guy to kiss my ass for betraying a friend to get his wife, but that's about all.

Sabotaging a relationship and then swooping in as the good guy never works. Don't you watch movies?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-15 12:45am

Nova Andromeda wrote:--My two cents:
-Bad guys exude and air of power and confidence which are really attractive to women. Nice guys on average do not as much, they are nice.

-Women are less attracted to men who fawn all over them (e.g., make a nice pet) and compromise their desires for the women too often (i.e., wooped). Instead they seem to like someone who is "in charge" and shows leadership qualities. Bad guys rairly fawn all over "their woman," often "wear the pants," but are rarely constant assholes and can be very thoughtful.

Let's keep in mind, however, that all of these rules apply largely to the early part of a relationship. Once a relationship begins to grow into something real, a lot of this game-playing bullshit goes by the wayside (if it doesn't, the relationship may be counting down to some sort of explosion).

-[random thought]Why do people abandon perfectly good communication methods (e.g., plain English) when it comes to romance and instead opt for body laquage, hints, inuendo and all manner of ambiguous communication methods???[/random thought]

Because mating is a primitive activity, which relies on primitive centres of the brain. Verbal language employs advanced parts of the brain (except for cases such as George W. Bush, of course).

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-10-15 01:19am

Darth Wong wrote: Because mating is a primitive activity, which relies on primitive centres of the brain. Verbal language employs advanced parts of the brain (except for cases such as George W. Bush, of course).

You hit the nail on the head here.

When I was fifteen or so I turned a girl down for a date because I wasn't attracted to her at all. I'm normally a very nice person, so I felt sick that I had become such an asshole about appearance. I told my dad (ever the wise sage) and he told me:

"John, there are two things that are important to a successful relationship. Number one, you need to have friendship. Number two, you need to have to lust."

I think my dad was exactly right in this case since he really showed me that you can't simply ignore your animal instincts. Sure, some people learn to see past this, but it is exceedingly rare.

Gandalf man, this is all about opportunity for you. I was exactly the same way in high school as you. I got lucky though and my parents decided to send me to a small boarding school. This was the best damn experience of my life because when you live in small community of seventy or so teenagers, things like social groups and outward masks that society forces us to wear become meaningless. I learned quickly how to relate to women and after going in a social outcast virgin, three years later I had learned everything I needed to know about how to relate to women, probably for life.

I'm not suggesting that you go off to boarding school, my point is just that when you get close to people and you let these stupid social barriers break down so women can get to know the real you (and vice-versa) you'll learn that women are a lot more insecure then we are and that all they really want is a nice guy that will hold them and tell them everything is going to be all right (pardon the shameless Adam Sandler movie quote). Sooner or later your going to meet someone who will love you for who you are, not who you think you need to be. And man, that is the absolute best feeling in the world.

Sorry, if I'm acting a little sappy, but I've had some weird relationship related crap going on lately that has put me in a thoughtful mood about all this

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-10-15 01:25am

The Kernel wrote:My point is just that when you get close to people and you let these stupid social barriers break down so women can get to know the real you (and vice-versa) you'll learn that women are a lot more insecure then we are and that all they really want is a nice guy that will hold them and tell them everything is going to be all right (pardon the shameless Adam Sandler movie quote). Sooner or later your going to meet someone who will love you for who you are, not who you think you need to be. And man, that is the absolute best feeling in the world.

Sorry, if I'm acting a little sappy, but I've had some weird relationship related crap going on lately that has put me in a thoughtful mood about all this

Nah, don't worry about it, I definitely know the feeling.

In my case, I met a girl like that sooner rather than later. (Obviously, unless you're a sucker for punishment or something, you don't stick with a girl for six years unless you love her...)

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-15 07:24am

This thread reminds me of one of the more humorous scenes from Bedazzled

Alison to super sensative Elliot:
"I just wanna be with a man who will ignore me and take me for granted
and who's only pretending to be interested in who I am and what I think so
he can get into my pants."

"Tough-guy Dude" in Army shirt: "That would be me."

Alison: " Oh thank you."

To be fair, at this point in the movie Elliot is basically so sensative and sappy that he'd make any kiddie show host look like evil encarnate.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-10-15 05:06pm

Durandal wrote:Pounder, that was fucking low. I'd have kicked the shit out of the guy, personally. That sucks that it happened to you.

I felt like it, one thing stopped me, he'd have kicked the crap outta me without breaking a sweat, i'm a big fella but he's athletic and strong. I am contented by the fact that he's a loser and will never EVER be able to give her the life and treat her the way i would have. I'm a very good secretary on the fast track to promotion. Ray, my former friend, can't hold a job, lives on the benefits system and generally destroys everything he touches, he currently claims dole and works in a KFC. I know it makes me sound petty to claim i'm better because i've a better job but i am better than him, my previous lack of confidence stopped me from seeing that.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-10-15 05:25pm

Pounder, you hit the nail on the head in your earlier statement. You have to make it happen. Get stuck in that friends mode and you'll lose out (unless you only want that friendship, in which case you win...)

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-10-16 03:13am

Gandalf wrote:I'm with Durandal, go raise some hell. For an interesting shot at irony though, you could make him seem like the asshole to her. Then swoop in as the good guy. That's what I'd do.

I'm kinda inept when it comes to talking, just two-on-two, but when there are more people around I have alot easier, possibly because they can talk most of the time and I might say something now and then, I'm a "silent bob" / terminator kind of type

Same with girls really, I can dance on the tables at a pub(done so several times) if I really got it going, but talking can be hard anyway.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-10-16 03:18am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Gandalf wrote:I'm with Durandal, go raise some hell. For an interesting shot at irony though, you could make him seem like the asshole to her. Then swoop in as the good guy. That's what I'd do.
I'm kinda inept when it comes to talking, just two-on-two, but when there are more people around I have alot easier, possibly because they can talk most of the time and I might say something now and then, I'm a "silent bob" / terminator kind of type

Same with girls really, I can dance on the tables at a pub(done so several times) if I really got it going, but talking can be hard anyway.

It shouldn't be that hard, invite a friend along if you go out with them, then subtly drop in some examples of him baing an asshole.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-16 03:26am

One tip which you may find useful: if you are with a group of guys who seem to be having fun and you appear to be the dominant (but not bullying) personality in the group, most women will be strongly attracted to you. I'm not making this up.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-10-16 03:57am

Gandalf wrote:It shouldn't be that hard, invite a friend along if you go out with them, then subtly drop in some examples of him baing an asshole.

I think I was quoting the wrong post y'know

I was writing about talking and socializing.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-10-16 04:01am

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Gandalf wrote:It shouldn't be that hard, invite a friend along if you go out with them, then subtly drop in some examples of him baing an asshole.
I think I was quoting the wrong post y'know
I was writing about talking and socializing.

Ok, still couldn't hurt to remember, you'll get a great feeling of satisfaction out of reducing his stature like that.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-10-16 06:05am

Darth Wong wrote:One tip which you may find useful: if you are with a group of guys who seem to be having fun and you appear to be the dominant (but not bullying) personality in the group, most women will be strongly attracted to you. I'm not making this up.

(writes down note)

"Be a leader, not a follower."

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-10-16 04:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:One tip which you may find useful: if you are with a group of guys who seem to be having fun and you appear to be the dominant (but not bullying) personality in the group, most women will be strongly attracted to you. I'm not making this up.

That's just the Social/pack animal dynamics built into us. The Alpha Males get attention/attraction. Oh, yeah it's still there.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-10-16 07:23pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:One tip which you may find useful: if you are with a group of guys who seem to be having fun and you appear to be the dominant (but not bullying) personality in the group, most women will be strongly attracted to you. I'm not making this up.
(writes down note)

"Be a leader, not a follower."

You moron. YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT!! GO BACK TO YOUR ROOM!!

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-10-16 10:54pm

*looks in mirror*

Nope, there's my answer.

Anyway, I tended to see the girls go with the assholes all the time. Still seeing this bullshit about breakup/cry/get new guy/breakup/cry/go back to first guy/repeat in this batch of high schoolers. Go figure.

And it's very likely I never noticed some girl who might've been interested in me (ugly mug notwithstanding)... I can't even tell if a girl has fake hair, so how do you expect me to tell if she's attracted to me?