SUVs take hit in pol's pitch

[The Duchess of Zeon]

For example, take a large American sedan (mine is a Mercury and weighs in at 4400 lbs curb weight) compared to an American SUV. If you're comparing one of those ridiculously ostentatious ultra-luxury Mercedes luxury cars to a Ford SUV, that's an apples-to-oranges comparison and you know it.

Well, I was thinking of comparing a Chrysler Imperial to a Dodge Durango, things like that.

[theski]

Mike wrote:

You're allowed to drive what you want, just not in congested, narrow city streets. They already ban trucks from certain areas; all they're saying is that SUVs are getting so big that they should be classified as trucks. Get off your high horse; you're acting as though your fundamental rights are being taken away.

I think there is a huge difference between a Semi or Delivery truck and a Suv.. even a H2 or Excursion..

Hell I even traded my Explorer in for a Golf GTI but this just is going a bit far.. Thats all

[Darth Wong]

For example, take a large American sedan (mine is a Mercury and weighs in at 4400 lbs curb weight) compared to an American SUV. If you're comparing one of those ridiculously ostentatious ultra-luxury Mercedes luxury cars to a Ford SUV, that's an apples-to-oranges comparison and you know it.

Well, I was thinking of comparing a Chrysler Imperial to a Dodge Durango, things like that.

A Dodge Durango has the same curb weight as my car (a Grand Marquis LS), costs more than $10,000 more than its current version, and has much higher fuel costs due to its much larger aerodynamic profile. Exactly how were you planning to prove that SUVs are more economical?

Besides, that's not the kind of vehicle that was described in the original post, which specifically mentioned the "monster SUVs" such as the "Hummer, the Chevrolet Suburban and the Ford Excursion". I've seen all three of these vehicles up close, and they are unacceptable intrusions on the road. They create as much of a blockage for sight-lines in traffic as big trucks do, and with curb weights of 6800 lbs, 5600 lbs (4x4), and 7100-7700 lbs (4x4, depending on engine option) respectively, they literally weigh as much as two normal cars.

[Howedar]

Marina, quit spouting bullshit.

That's a tremendous rebuttal.

Suiting your tremendous supporting evidence.

NHTSA agrees with me. What's your evidence?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A Dodge Durango has the same curb weight as my car (a Grand Marquis LS), costs more than $10,000 more than its current version, and has much higher fuel costs due to its much larger aerodynamic profile. Exactly how were you planning to prove that SUVs are more economical?

You think the SUV fad is something pushed by marketing tactics, or at least expanding beyond real need, as opposed to an actual market niche that it occupies, then?

[Darth Wong]

A Dodge Durango has the same curb weight as my car (a Grand Marquis LS), costs more than $10,000 more than its current version, and has much higher fuel costs due to its much larger aerodynamic profile. Exactly how were you planning to prove that SUVs are more economical?

You think the SUV fad is something pushed by marketing tactics, or at least expanding beyond real need, as opposed to an actual market niche that it occupies, then?

SUVs used to be limited to an actual market niche (back in the old days, when a Jeep Cherokee was considered a good-sized Cherokee, not like today's insanely large 7800lb Ford Excursion behemoths). But you said it yourself; they have become a fad. I see these people every day on my way to work: single drivers navigating elephantine land-mass vehicles to and from work. That is not an actual need.

[darthdavid]

You think you have it bad? I live in Central New York and my mom drives a Jetta. Just the other day we were turning onto a side road and two fucking massive suvs went on either side of us one. Practically made a collision happen. They always like to tailgate too. I mean how fucking retarded do you have to be not to be able to drive more than 3 feet from the bumper of the person infront of you damn it?

[MKSheppard]

Deathtraps because people with needlessly massive vehicles will crush them in a collision.

All hail the 1980s era Chevy Caprice, road hog, fuel hog, and capable
of snapping an econobox in half with the only damage being a broken
headlight!

[MKSheppard]

A Dodge Durango has the same curb weight as my car (a Grand Marquis LS), costs more than $10,000 more than its current version, and has much higher fuel costs due to its much larger aerodynamic profile. Exactly how were you planning to prove that SUVs are more economical?

Don't be knocking the Durango! Only thing that can take four people in
relative luxury, tow a boat, AND have a very large enclosed cargo bay,
and have a modicum of 4x4 capability.

[Darth Mall]

They always like to tailgate too. I mean how fucking retarded do you have to be not to be able to drive more than 3 feet from the bumper of the person infront of you damn it?

David, thats because the fucking things are to big for the fucking drivers to see you. Now while my mom drives a van, I still think that most huge ass SUV's are crap and waste fuel. People complain about high gas costs here in the US yet they drive cars that burn through gas in an instant. Fuck large SUV drivers

[Darth Wong]

Don't be knocking the Durango! Only thing that can take four people in relative luxury, tow a boat, AND have a very large enclosed cargo bay, and have a modicum of 4x4 capability.

Are you serious? SUVs are vastly overrated as cargo haulers. A pickup truck is a better hauler than an SUV any day of the week. In order to put decent-sized cargo in an SUV, you have to remove the rear seats; an arduous and irritating task. Then, you have to lay protectors all over it to keep the cargo from staining, scratching, or otherwise damaging your nice interior.

Real cargo haulers use pickup trucks. Doctors, lawyers, and accountants use SUVs.

[MKSheppard]

Are you serious?

Quite.

In order to put decent-sized cargo in an SUV, you have to remove the rear seats; an arduous and irritating task. Then, you have to lay protectors all over it to keep the cargo from staining, scratching, or otherwise damaging your nice interior.

No you don't Not if you're sending various knick a nacks from jobsite to
jobsite for elevator companies. You can easily fill up a Durango with
all kinds of crap needed for the job.

[Darth Wong]

No you don't Not if you're sending various knick a nacks from jobsite to jobsite for elevator companies. You can easily fill up a Durango with all kinds of crap needed for the job.

If you're just hauling little knick-knacks, you don't need an SUV. You can load them up in a van or even a large car's trunk. As I said, if you claim you need the SUV for hauling stuff, you should be driving a large pickup, not an SUV. SUVs are a fashion statement.

[MKSheppard]

If you're just hauling little knick-knacks, you don't need an SUV. You can load them up in a van or even a large car's trunk. As I said, if you claim you need the SUV for hauling stuff, you should be driving a large pickup, not an SUV. SUVs are a fashion statement.

These knick knacks are usually six feet long, and weigh about 30~ pounds,
and you might have a bunch of them sitting on the rear seats, while in the
back, you're carrying a couple bags/boxes worth of test equipment
including wrenches.

And some of the places where they service are high class places, so it's best
to blend in rather than look like a plumber.

[Darth Wong]

These knick knacks are usually six feet long, and weigh about 30~ pounds, and you might have a bunch of them sitting on the rear seats, while in the back, you're carrying a couple bags/boxes worth of test equipment including wrenches.

One word: minivan.

And some of the places where they service are high class places, so it's best to blend in rather than look like a plumber.

Precisely. It's about making a fashion statement.

[MKSheppard]

One word: minivan.

Do minivans have the necessary axle clearance as well as
4x4 capability? Remember, these guys are service techs,
they have to get to the job site, no matter what.

There is a reason the Postal Service used Jeeps until about
10~ years ago, and then switched to a modified S-10 light
truck body.

Precisely. It's about making a fashion statement.

A supervisor is entitled to the perks of his position, but he also has
to be able to do stuff like carry stuff around at ELCON. Hence the
preference for SUVs at ELCON for upper management in the
vehicle fleet.

Interesting fact: ELCON allows everyone to use their work supplied
vehicle as a private use vehicle, so everything always looks spotless,
even though the primary fleet color is white with blue lettering

[Glocksman]

All hail the 1980s era Chevy Caprice, road hog, fuel hog, and capable
of snapping an econobox in half with the only damage being a broken
headlight!

Heh...

Years ago, my 1974 Chevy Nova was rearended by a new Honda CRX. The Honda literally folded like an accordion and was totalled out.

The only damage to the Nova was the rear bumper being bent down slightly, and that straightened up after we used the bumper jack on it to change a tire that went flat a few weeks later.

Give me an old rear drive car any day.

[Darth Wong]

Do minivans have the necessary axle clearance as well as 4x4 capability? Remember, these guys are service techs, they have to get to the job site, no matter what.

Oh, so we're talking about rugged conditions now? Then we're right back ti pickup trucks, which cost less than SUVs of equivalent size, carry more, are less top-heavy, and handle off-road conditions better. As I said, SUVs are almost always a fashion statement.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Two words, Shep,
Camper shell.
SUVs are not for hauling serious freight, or towing. A 5th wheel in a pick up is serious towing.
A 2000lb payload is a serious mover. Including passengers, and fuel as your payload is a cheap deceptive advertising trick used by SUV manufacturers to overrate the SUV's capacities.
Two people, and a full tank of gas will lower your SUV's payload by as much as 25%. 2x people @150 lbs= 300lbs. 30 gallons of gas, @7 pounds per gallon= 210lbs, +300 = 510 lbs' = more than 25% of your 2000lb "cargo" capacity.
PU trucks rate their payload in addition to, 500lbs of passenger, and full fuel tanks.

SUVs lie on paper, and over inflate their true abilities.
Combine this with their smog belching loophole in the emmisions standards, and their HUGE size, it is no surprise that SUVs are banned in metro areas.
Don't get me started on fools who don't understand how close they are to the limits of adhesion to the road. They are so close to their limits, ANY sudden change will break traction. Once they get into trouble, they don't have the delta V to change course, unlike smaller, lighter ones, with greater reserve traction capacity.

Larger heavier cars just CAN'T be as agile as lighter ones, but until the rubber squeels, the SUV doesn't know how close to the edge they were.
They match the lighter car's moves, up to a point, and once that point is passed, (Usualy with little or no warning) controle is lost.

[Peregrin Toker]

Do minivans have the necessary axle clearance as well as 4x4 capability? Remember, these guys are service techs, they have to get to the job site, no matter what.

Oh, so we're talking about rugged conditions now? Then we're right back ti pickup trucks, which cost less than SUVs of equivalent size, carry more, are less top-heavy, and handle off-road conditions better.

I might be wrong, but aren't most SUVs intended to provide a compromise between the qualities of an offroader pickup and a minivan? I'm no big fans of people who buy a Range Rover knowing that they'll never take it off-road but think that there are certain people who need both a 4x4 pickup and a luxury car or minivan. These people, if they exist, could theoretically do well with a Range Rover or Landcruiser if they don't can afford both.

Then again, the average SUV buyer probably buys the vehicle only for the image and I'm fully aware of this.

Years ago, my 1974 Chevy Nova was rearended by a new Honda CRX. The Honda literally folded like an accordion and was totalled out.

The only damage to the Nova was the rear bumper being bent down slightly, and that straightened up after we used the bumper jack on it to change a tire that went flat a few weeks later.

???

A '74 Nova, IIRC, isn't a particularly large car... actually, I think it's small by American standards.

[theski]

Since Mike brought this up earlier...

I think it is a fundamental right to be able buy and drive whatever kind of car/truck/Suv you want. Its my money.. IMHO

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Since Mike brought this up earlier...

I think it is a fundamental right to be able buy and drive whatever kind of car/truck/Suv you want. Its my money.. IMHO

So you should be able to drive to work in a tank?

[Vympel]

Since Mike brought this up earlier...

I think it is a fundamental right to be able buy and drive whatever kind of car/truck/Suv you want. Its my money.. IMHO

So is it a fundamental right to cause damage to the environment cause inconvenience to other road users etc ad infinitum all the problems with SUVs because you spent good money on it?

[theski]

Vympel wrote:

So is it a fundamental right to cause damage to the environment cause inconvenience to other road users etc ad infinitum all the problems with SUVs because you spent good money on it?

No ..its a right for me to choose what I want to drive.. and you are going to tell me how to spend my money??

again its just about personal choice...

[Vympel]

No ..its a right for me to choose what I want to drive..

Which right would that be, exactly? Is it in the Constitution or what?

and you are going to tell me how to spend my money??

again its just about personal choice...

You're told how to spend your money everytime the government restricts/regulates certain goods and services for various reasons- like the case here, where these ridiculous vehicles are quite reasonably removed from an area where there is no legitimate use for them. This is not new.