Has John Williams lost his touch?

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-10-18 11:08pm

I can't remember if any of his latest pieces have been memorable. Even Duel of the Fates was kind of.. eh, compared to the majestic thundering of Darth Vader/The Imperial Theme.

Overall though, I think I love the score to Jurassic Park the best. Sure, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, the Olympic Anthem, etc are GREAT.. without a shred of a doubt. But Jurassic Park was filled with this magical wonder in it that I still play often time after time again.

But lately.. his work has been.. eh. I'm always reminded of the Family Guy episode where he's up for a Woody for best soundtrack in a Porn Film.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-10-18 11:12pm

Olympic Anthem?

I agree that his recent work has been mediocre. I can't even remember anything of his from AotC.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-10-18 11:14pm

Trytostaydead wrote:I can't remember if any of his latest pieces have been memorable. Even Duel of the Fates was kind of.. eh, compared to the majestic thundering of Darth Vader/The Imperial Theme.

I think that "Across The Stars" is beautiful and very enduring.

But lately.. his work has been.. eh. I'm always reminded of the Family Guy episode where he's up for a Woody for best soundtrack in a Porn Film.

I was just going to mention that.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-10-18 11:21pm

He's always been very diverse in style, and thematic impact. He's getting up there in years, also.

And while we may love The Imperial March, he might think it's a hackneyed piece of shit.
Some of his non-soundtrack original music is kinda sappy, actually.

I don't think he's "lost it", he's just changing as he gets older.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-18 11:21pm

With recent Star Wars stuff, he's limited by the need to fit his new music into the milieu created by the original themes, so in a sense, his hands are tied. He can't experiment, because he's worried about maintaining stylistic consistency throughout a 25 year old work in progress.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-10-18 11:28pm

Let's not forget that he gave us the Superman theme.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-10-18 11:35pm

You know he only writes little snippets of melody and a handful of people do all the orchestrations, voicings, transitions, etc., right?

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-10-18 11:37pm

He did do the music for Harry Potter, and although it wasn't as memorable as his other works, it did fit with the setting in the movie.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-18 11:42pm

Zaia wrote:You know he only writes little snippets of melody and a handful of people do all the orchestrations, voicings, transitions, etc., right?

Not to devalue the work of these undoubtedly talented people, but the principal melody of, say, the "Raiders" theme is the only part that we all walk around humming when we think of the movie, isn't it?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-18 11:44pm

I don't think John Williams lost his touch so much as he raised the bar so high that it took years for people to catch up with him. And now that they have, he doesn't look as good as he used to look.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-10-18 11:44pm

Not to devalue the work of these undoubtedly talented people, but the principal melody of, say, the "Raiders" theme is the only part that we all walk around humming when we think of the movie, isn't it?

Thanks, you ass, now I'll never get it out of my head!

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-10-18 11:44pm

John doesn't like to try out new things. Other than the technoish piece he did for "A.I.", the stuff he's been doing in recent years doesn't stand out very much... if you listen to even the first few bars of the Indiana Jones theme, you KNOW it's the Indiana Jones theme... same goes for the theme from "Jaws", etc, etc... but all his newer work? Good luck placing them with a specific movie unless you have the soundtrack, or it contains bits of the Imperial March.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-10-18 11:45pm

Superman wrote:Let's not forget that he gave us the Superman theme.

He did? My god, he is a genius...

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-10-18 11:48pm

How about his scores for Schindler's List or Amistad ("Dry Your Tears, Afrika" in particular)?

Shaidar Haran · Post by **Shaidar Haran** » 2003-10-18 11:50pm

He's pretty good. But I don't think he's ever had the range of some composers.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-10-18 11:57pm

How can you not know he did Superman? It's greatest use was in that Seinfeld episode ... the Big Race.

I liked Duel of the Fates- the music of the Droid Army in Ep 1 was also quite good- it reminded me of the Nazi themes from Indiana Jones.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-10-19 12:01am

AdmiralKanos wrote:
Zaia wrote:You know he only writes little snippets of melody and a handful of people do all the orchestrations, voicings, transitions, etc., right?
Not to devalue the work of these undoubtedly talented people, but the principal melody of, say, the "Raiders" theme is the only part that we all walk around humming when we think of the movie, isn't it?

Right, but he basically just does the hook, and the rest of the crew does the hard part. Boy bands have people that write hooks for them. Williams is on a higher level of musicianship than BSB or whatever, don't get me wrong, but it's the same kind of idea, which is why my respect for the man is limited. I just can't help but think, "Ok, so you have a cool idea, good--now, FINISH IT!! Don't give it to someone else!" It's reversed, and maybe the comparison only works in my head, but...yeah. I don't like that. If you're going to write your own music and have just your name on it, REALLY WRITE ALL YOUR OWN MUSIC.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-19 12:19am

You sound like a music teacher who caught somebody cheating on an assignment

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-19 12:44am

[flamebait]Williams hasn't lost his touch, he was never any good in the first place![/flamebait]

Seriously, though, I don't think he's worse than he was before. I think he's being a bit more subtle with his music now, trying to create pieces that affect you more subconsiously, rather than stuff that sticks in your head.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-10-19 01:01am

Ahh, heritic.

Personally, while some segments of the prequels are lacking, the music is more than awesome. Duel of the Fates is totally fucking great. Probably the best part of the movie.

Post by **Zaia** » 2003-10-19 01:07am

Darth Wong wrote:You sound like a music teacher who caught somebody cheating on an assignment

Heheheh... I don't know what you mean.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-10-19 01:29am

No, I really like what Williams has been doing for the new SW movies. Duel of the Fates was awesome, and the Droid Army and Final Battle pieces were almost as good. While not as powerful the music from EPII is quite appropriate for the mood of the movie.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-10-19 01:31am

Does anyone know what the music from the Nazi rally in The Last Crusade is called? I love that piece.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-10-19 01:33am

While no one can deny that "Duel of the Fates" is not a masterpiece of a song, it's his only hit out of how many songs out of how many movies he's done in the past five or so years?

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2003-10-19 01:39am

Duel of the Fates was pretty cool sounding, especially when you're in the orchestra playing it. Now the song at the end during the ceremony however, was just Horrible . Well maybe not the teeth and claws part.

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Has John Williams lost his touch?

Has John Williams lost his touch?

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