Howedar wrote:Yet Laforge and the woman in "The Next Phase", who acted in every way like they were phase cloaked, interacted with the non-phased oxygen in the Enterprise-D. Thus, it appears that phase cloaked objects interact with their surroundings, but only weakly or only with highly reactive substances (IE it reacts to oxygen, but not rock or a metal bulkhead).
However, if gases still interact with other objects despite the phase difference, the phase cloaked Enterprise may well have left all it's oxygen behind when it tried to travel through the rock. If a person at a phase difference can still affect a gas (drawing it into their lungs via simple differences of pressure), surely a honking great wall of rock could (taking up volume, changing the pressure)...
In "The Pegasus", the air on the Enterprise travels through the rock with the ship and crew, so it IS affected by the phase difference, why would the gas attack suddenly NOT be?
Howedar wrote:Yet Laforge and the woman in "The Next Phase", who acted in every way like they were phase cloaked, interacted with the non-phased oxygen in the Enterprise-D. Thus, it appears that phase cloaked objects interact with their surroundings, but only weakly or only with highly reactive substances (IE it reacts to oxygen, but not rock or a metal bulkhead).
However, if gases still interact with other objects despite the phase difference, the phase cloaked Enterprise may well have left all it's oxygen behind when it tried to travel through the rock. If a person at a phase difference can still affect a gas (drawing it into their lungs via simple differences of pressure), surely a honking great wall of rock could (taking up volume, changing the pressure)...
We don't even know if they were breathing in and out (well they probably were, but we don't know what effect, if any, that had). There would be oxygen in their lungs whether they breathed or not.
In "The Pegasus", the air on the Enterprise travels through the rock with the ship and crew, so it IS affected by the phase difference, why would the gas attack suddenly NOT be?
The air on the Enterprise was the same phase as the ship itself, so it reacted normally to the walls and bulkheads of the ship. The mostly chemically inert rock would not interact with the oxygen very fast, if at all.
Oh, look! Twenty Federation ships getting together for a little party can fire a ONE gigaton salvo every second or so. That way they can take down an Imperator II? LOL! First of all, against the Borg at Wolf 359, the Federation didn't even manage a hundred ships to oppose a direct attack on Starfleet HQ. Your "ONLY" twenty ships statement is stupid. Second, you're talking about attacking a combat vessel from a universe in which TRANSPORTS are armed with weapons in the 600 gigaton range. Guess what! With a good sized task force from ST and ten minutes you can get off the firepower that an Acclamator fires in ONE SHOT! I'm sure you trekkies are proud of yourselves, now. In order to match the output of a single heavy weapons emplacement from an Acclamator, using the rate of fire posted on the board, it would take twelve THOUSAND Federation ships. Even using the most ludicrous DS9 based figures, that is more than the entire Federation fleet. With that, you could match the output of a SINGLE shot from a large, obsolete troop transport from SW. And you guys hope to take out an ISD? It would be like attacking a group of Klingon warriors using a tribble.
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consequences wrote:Okay, I never suggested that weapons could be fired from a phase cloak. There is no reason for the spotter ship to be manned in the first place, especially if the ship is phase cloaked, and therefore doesn't need to perform standard evasive manuevers to evade hostile fire. Gravitic sensors can detect it, but what is that going to do to help, given that the empire has never exhibitted any sort of gravitic weapons technology, the closest they have being the interdictor's gravity well generator, and I would love to know how to turn that into a viable weapon.
Easily. You can use the gravity generators to ROYALLY screw around with another ship's gravity (You know, reverse up and down and side to side...).
Pity the Federation if the Empire gets there hands on Omega molecules,they may already have them, All they would need to do to decapitate Starfleet is explode two one outside the system holding starbase 74 and one outside Sol.this would wreck Starfleet they would be unable to use warp speed for an area LIGHTYEARS across look what happened in Voyager in the episode The Omega Directive,Hyperspace transit would allow the Empire to still travel FTL unhindered. One final thought and this is a possibility Hypermatter=Omega molecule???
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Nope its been tossed around a few times but the simple fact is Omega does quite a few things that Hyperspaces does not(IE Gravity Waves, yada yada werid effects oh and Hyperspaces does not creat anything)
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I said Hypermatter, the fuel they run on, not Hyperspace,which they travel through,
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I have seen the Episode "The Next Phase" and my assesment of firing weapons from a phase cloaked vessel will just pass through the ISD doing nothing. the Rommie Disruptor pistol they used passed through peaple's heads and caused no damage. also the phased personell could not communicate with nonphased personel.
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I was under the impression that the phase cloaking device was something like the warp core, created a "bubble" of phaseness around the ship, out of phase from everything outside it. If thats correct, a torpedo launched from inside the phase would rephase back into normal space once it left the bubble, wouldn't it?
I don't know, I have bad memory, I barely remember the episode at all.
But whose to say you couldn't fit one of those babies on some sort of weapon, say a "cruise missile". It fires/is launched, phases, goes to its target and then unphases inside the target ship, and detonates. Something to that effect.
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User099: Yeah but its finding a place big enough to rephase in - hangers are probably the only safe bet and maybe engineering if its anything like it was on the death star.
An explosion from inside the hanger would tear a SD in two, if the explosion is big enough, and how big is the hanger on an ISD? I'm guessing at around 100 meters wide, so a 100 meter long kamikazi ship/bomb would be able to pack enough explosives to do the job huh?
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Yes and I see no reason why this wouldnt be a great attack plan however it is lost tech, I think however if the feds were facing defeat they would probably imploy such tactics and probably to great affect.
I wish someone would work out an accurate torp power since those Kiloton range figures are rather silly.
So what? The very idea of the Empire invading the ST galaxy is "lost tech" considering the Empire was annihilated by the Rebels, but they get to "erase" that little tidbit of Star Wars history. Anyway the same strategy could be performed with an ordinarily cloaked ship/weapon, riding up underneath the SD and into its bay and exploding.
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Apparently not, in TESB when the Falcon attached to the back of the Star Destroyer they said the Falcon must have cloaked because they lost it on their readings. In any case, a quick warp jump right underneath the ship, or within close enough range to get there quickly might work if they move fast enough to get there before they're fired upon.
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Begone, troll. Such a Phase-Cloaked Giant Death Torpedo (TM) would require so many things to go exactly right that the Empire would have little to fear from it (ISD must stay in position, Phase-Cloaked Giant Death Torpedo (TM) cannot have any of the systems failures common to Trekships, the Phase-Cloaked Giant Death Torpedo (TM) must be launched from a Trekship that would in turn have to get close enough to the ISD, and finally, phase cloaks were never perfected in the first place, and indeed posed a major risk to the ships on which it was employed!).
Apparently thats a sensor blind spot and the supra light sensors arent very reliable for fast moving craft, however Im not sure what sort of scale we are talking there.
The clock detectors work upto a few 100,000 km but dont work well near sources of gravity thus a clocked ambush from a planet would be a worthwhile tactic.
It wouldnt matter if the SD was moving, it could simply fly up into the hanger and explode. What's so hard about that? Its not like SDs are speed-demons. And I doubt it would be able to be carried aboard a ship, more likely either tractor-beamed into the area or transported via specialised transport ships specifically made to house them. It would only need to find out where a target is, the weapon would be self guiding. Sure, they might make lots of mistakes.
And planet-ambushing is also a good tactic. Major Fed planets could be supplied with normally-cloaked guided kamikazi things for defense and launch them if any enemy fleets come into orbit.
There, there's 1 point for the Feds, an applicable and potentially damaging defense. (1 point for Feds, 88,000,000 for the Empire.)
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Hey, this bomb would really really have to pack a lot of boom, because otherwise, you won't be able to 'tear the ISD apart'.
And what makes you think they won't spot the ship? Even if it's phase-cloaked?
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And secondly you seem of course that the SD is flying around with its Sensors off and its shields down
Phase-Cloaked Giant Death Torpedo (TM)
This idea has been put forth before but the main fact is the lasting one
No copies of Phase-Cloaking Exist and Cloaked Ships can be dected
And Artifical Gravity Wonks very baddly with Phase Cloaked ships
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Anyone else notice that the Trek adherents have to cobble together something as ridiculous as the Giant Phase Cloak Death torpedo, yet the Empire is only feilding its standard equipment without any modifications. no one here is postulating an Imperial super weapon, aside form the obvious CANON Death Star, is there ANYTHING Canon about the super duper weapons the Trek folks cobble together?
Although, devil advocate wise we do have to acknowldge that one of the traditions (and most annoying) aspects of Trek is the sudden techobabble devices cobbled together to combat just about anything.
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Well, they're desperate, and they're trying everything to win at least a small victory over the Empire.
The Phase Cloaked Giant Death Torpedo is still one of the better inventions...
Stravo: You stated youself that Trek uses techno weapons to win the day so a war with the empire would also include such weapons so judging those techno weapons on a weapon by weapon basis is the only way to go.
The problem for the Federation is forewarning - if they have a month or 2 to prepare you can beat phase cloaks would be built if only as a standby measure in case things went bad - they would come in handy for small strikes once the Feds fell to the imps.
Or to put it another way if you say they can still build phase Cloacks I say the Empire can Still Build Sun Crushers
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Pity the Federation if the Empire gets there hands on Omega molecules,they may already have them, All they would need to do to decapitate Starfleet is explode two one outside the system holding starbase 74 and one outside Sol.this would wreck Starfleet they would be unable to use warp speed for an area LIGHTYEARS across look what happened in Voyager in the episode The Omega Directive,Hyperspace transit would allow the Empire to still travel FTL unhindered. One final thought and this is a possibility Hypermatter=Omega molecule???
