ST Photorps — Not As Powerful As They're Cracked Up To Be?

[Isolder74]

yes the damage done in first contact seems a little small for a large "high Tech" starship.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Would a SW ship survive a nuclear blast against the hull?

Erm, YES. Have you not read ICS? It specifically states that the Acclamator's hull can withstand thermonuclear blasts, unshielded.

I already knew this, I just brought it up because it seemed to be as though Patrick was saying that since those ST ships were not reduced to radioactive dust by those photons against their unshielded hull then those photons did not have nuclear yields.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Would a SW ship survive a nuclear blast against the hull?

Erm, YES. Have you not read ICS? It specifically states that the Acclamator's hull can withstand thermonuclear blasts, unshielded.

DAMN! Beat me to it!

BTW in TOS the Ent-nil crew shit themselves when the Romulans blew up a nuke near it, didn't they?

I don't think they shit themselves, Doomriser. However, your missing one important variable.....what was the yield of the nuclear device?

[Kamakazie Sith]

They look exactly like Borg torpedoes, to my knowledge we have never seen the Borg fire pulses of weapons fire except for torpedoes, and if you look closely at the top screen-shot, you can see that it is leaving a trail that appears to be chemical in the form of gas, consistent with missile fire.

We have seen Borg torpedoes....refer to VGR "Endgame" those weapons on FC look nothing like them except for maybe the color.

By the way we have seen the borg fire pulse....refer to TNG "Q Who" the energy dampening weapon that they used to bring the E-D out of warp.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I think that a 50 TT thermonuclear blast would cause some damage to an Aclamator.

Its not the weapon that counts, per say. Its the firepower behind the weapon.

Exactly...it's the yield that matters.

[Master of Ossus]

I think that a 50 TT thermonuclear blast would cause some damage to an Aclamator.

Its not the weapon that counts, per say. Its the firepower behind the weapon.

Exactly...it's the yield that matters.

Duh.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I think that a 50 TT thermonuclear blast would cause some damage to an Aclamator.

Its not the weapon that counts, per say. Its the firepower behind the weapon.

Exactly...it's the yield that matters.

Duh.

Your vocabulary is second to none.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, to say that the yield of a weapon is its only attribute is to grossly over-simplify. Other factors include its range and accuracy at range, the precision and reliability of its parts, and the amount of ammunition that can reasonably be stored, transported, and expended by such a weapon.

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

I'm confused, Vympel, are you trying to say that the lower yields on the Slave 1 disproves the 200GT weapons on Acclamators? There are obviously going to be differences in scale. Some weapons are always going to be more powerful than others. How is it not fair to assume that weapons used in ST combat are full yield for those weapons? The Slave-1 quite obviously is nowhere near the most powerful ship in the Galaxy, but it also has some weapons that would be considered extremely powerful if ever it was in the ST universe. Slave-1's light weapons, designed for engaging poorly armored but nimble fighters were full-yield at the time that they were firing at Obi-Wans fighter. Their firepower is obviously not very great. However that does not disprove the seismic charges that Jango used in the same movie. There is no contradiction here, and it IS fair to assume maximum yields for particular weapons during combat.

No No!! There were two different Cannons used by the Fetts on Slave-1. The Ones fired at Kenobi were smaller weaker Blaster cannons, and I believe the ICS gave and accurate yield on them. As for the cannons Jango Used on Obi's Fighter those are the 2 kiloton laser cannons. If you look at the screenshots of the attack the laser blast were coming from emiters that are above the ones that were used on Obi on Kaimino. Look at my pic:

Here's a better one.

[Master of Ossus]

Wait, HOOLIGANJEDI, are you saying that my post was correct or incorrect? I reiterate: the existence of the Slave-1's light cannons (with which it engaged Obi-Wan's fighter, breaking up asteroids along the way), in no way disproves the existence of heavier weapons, even on Slave-1 itself. It is reasonable to assume that those weapons were firing at their fullest yield, but it is not reasonable to assume that because those were the only weapons firing during that particular screen, they must also have been its most powerful weapons.

[Doomriser]

Trekkies: Of course yield matters. But where are you getting this 50 TT figure from?

[THEHOOLIGANJEDI]

Actually I was just saying that most ppl were confused about Slave-1s armament. Some people thought that the whole 2 kiloton a shot figure in the ICS was Ludicrous b/c of when Boba fired on Obi Wan on Kaimino. But those in fact were not the 2 KT cannons the ICS was Reffering to. I was just trying to clarify that to some ppl who were still confused about it.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Actually, to say that the yield of a weapon is its only attribute is to grossly over-simplify. Other factors include its range and accuracy at range, the precision and reliability of its parts, and the amount of ammunition that can reasonably be stored, transported, and expended by such a weapon.

Well said MoO.

[starfury]

where did the 50 teraton yield of the photon torpedos come from

[Alyeska]

Trekkies: Of course yield matters. But where are you getting this 50 TT figure from?

Pulled it out of my ass. I was using it as an example that any weapon if impacted in the most eficent manner with a large enough warhead can still destroy any SW ship (except maybe the SC). I was demonstrating that Aclamators might be able to survive sub GT level nuclear exlplossions, but sifficently large ones can still harm it.

[Master of Ossus]

Trekkies: Of course yield matters. But where are you getting this 50 TT figure from?

Pulled it out of my ass. I was using it as an example that any weapon if impacted in the most eficent manner with a large enough warhead can still destroy any SW ship (except maybe the SC). I was demonstrating that Aclamators might be able to survive sub GT level nuclear exlplossions, but sifficently large ones can still harm it.

Everybody knows that SW ships are not invincible, but we also know that ST ships do not have the firepower to harm the largest SW capital ships, even in very large numbers.

[CmdrWilkens]

You don't need to see a mushroom cloud in space. However, when you see a torp explode against an unshielded ship and not even heat its surface to lumiscence, it certainly doesn't suggest megaton-class yield (and how strong can Federation hulls really be, when a DUD Jem'hadar torpedo breached the Defiant's hull in "Starship Down?).

Actually they are worse than one thinks...with the SIF down. The scene was an episode of Voyager, I can't remember the episode name but if someone thinks I'm not fully disclosing facts I'll go double check. Anyway Voyager is losing her SIF and they decide to crash land on a planet before losing power so that they can repair things. Now there are several important facts here:

1) If Voyager just kept on going like they were, i.e. not accelerating or decelerating, they would have suffered virtually zero hull stress.

2) the only major stress on the hull for an object not accelerating is only the overpressure of an atmosphere on the inside and the lack of one outside.

3) In other words a 1 ATM overpressure is enough to cause Voyager to break apart without her SIF, hope no one had beans with dinner.

[Master of Ossus]

And the infamous Klingon torpedo in ST:VI, which tore straight THROUGH the E-A's saucer section, imparting only some of its KE on the ship itself, which was enough to fairly easily punch through it.

[Patrick Degan]

Looks like a stirred up a hornet's nest with my modest observations.

[Master of Ossus]

Looks like a stirred up a hornet's nest with my modest observations.

You have a habit of doing that. Maybe we should give you a custom title. Something like, Chief Beekeeper, or "Winnie the Pooh," as you always have your hand in the honey pot. Or we could just give you another title, like "Yogi." But you're right, you did stir up some trouble with this set, again.

[CmdrWilkens]

Looks like a stirred up a hornet's nest with my modest observations. 8)

Yet its a hornets nest that deserves stirring. ST torp numebrs are, since the ending of the TM, one of the most debateable and hard to resolve pieces of Treknology.

[Sam Or I]

For the ST V argument, (adding a bit of spice into the debate), in the Treks defense they are firing onto a planet which has some sorf of field around it, which is able to contain powerful "god like" energy being. I have not seen ST: 1 in awhile except they do destroy an astriod with a PT. On the other side of things, have we ever seen a decent bombardment of the ground? The only thing I can think of is the time the Romulans and Cardassians try to destroy the founders home world.

[Patrick Degan]

For the ST V argument, (adding a bit of spice into the debate), in the Treks defense they are firing onto a planet which has some sorf of field around it, which is able to contain powerful "god like" energy being.

Unfortunately, this theory is defeated by the evidence of the photorp blast on Sha Ka Ree being no more powerful than other observed photorp blasts and no others are more powerful than it. Besides, the forcefield barrier was a psychological screen designed to prevent travelers from wanting to travel to Sha Ka Ree more than a forcefield. The effects of the Barrier upon the Enterprise were marginal, and there is no forcefield on the planet itself. Had the Enterprise been within sufficent range, "God" would have merged with the ship and gained its escape from Sha ka Ree and there would have been no forcefield to impede the transfer. So this does not provide any sort of special mechanism for damping photorp blast energy.

[Alyeska]

For the ST V argument, (adding a bit of spice into the debate), in the Treks defense they are firing onto a planet which has some sorf of field around it, which is able to contain powerful "god like" energy being.

Unfortunately, this theory is defeated by the evidence of the photorp blast on Sha Ka Ree being no more powerful than other observed photorp blasts and no others are more powerful than it. Besides, the forcefield barrier was a psychological screen designed to prevent travelers from wanting to travel to Sha Ka Ree more than a forcefield. The effects of the Barrier upon the Enterprise were marginal, and there is no forcefield on the planet itself. Had the Enterprise been within sufficent range, "God" would have merged with the ship and gained its escape from Sha ka Ree and there would have been no forcefield to impede the transfer. So this does not provide any sort of special mechanism for damping photorp blast energy.

I noticed how you left out the rest of his post in order to justify your claim.

Concession accepted.

[Patrick Degan]

For the ST V argument, (adding a bit of spice into the debate), in the Treks defense they are firing onto a planet which has some sorf of field around it, which is able to contain powerful "god like" energy being.

Unfortunately, this theory is defeated by the evidence of the photorp blast on Sha Ka Ree being no more powerful than other observed photorp blasts and no others are more powerful than it. Besides, the forcefield barrier was a psychological screen designed to prevent travelers from wanting to travel to Sha Ka Ree more than a forcefield. The effects of the Barrier upon the Enterprise were marginal, and there is no forcefield on the planet itself. Had the Enterprise been within sufficent range, "God" would have merged with the ship and gained its escape from Sha ka Ree and there would have been no forcefield to impede the transfer. So this does not provide any sort of special mechanism for damping photorp blast energy.

I noticed how you left out the rest of his post in order to justify your claim.

Concession accepted.

I was replying specifically to the situation in The Final Frontier. The rest of the post was not relevant to that movie.

But by all means, indulge your fantasies if you see fit.