The War on Satan

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-10-19 05:18pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I have a problem with people so mired in fundamentalism that they're going to be set off by the use of a word which (only in the most literal sense) describes a religious war that took place hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

The word "Crusade" doesn't only mean a historic event, it also has a meaning to today's society.

And this fundamentalism isn't something unique in the Islamic world.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-19 05:56pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I have a problem with people so mired in fundamentalism that they're going to be set off by the use of a word which (only in the most literal sense) describes a religious war that took place hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

A series of 8 religious wars that too place over the course of a couple centuries, that sent the sophisticated, and culturally advanced islamic world into a dark age... no, they wouldnt be pissed off about that

MarkIX · Post by **MarkIX** » 2003-10-19 07:43pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: A series of 8 religious wars that too place over the course of a couple centuries, that sent the sophisticated, and culturally advanced islamic world into a dark age... no, they wouldnt be pissed off about that

If there still pissed about that to the point of violence they haven't left the dark age. The crusades aren't even relevant, try looking closer to the 21th century (where we are now) there is lots more to look at than the crusades.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-19 08:03pm

yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?

MarkIX · Post by **MarkIX** » 2003-10-19 11:26pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?

depends on wether it is a caped crusade or not

it would all depend on how he said it. but that doesn't change my point about The Crusades being irrelevant.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-19 11:59pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I have a problem with people so mired in fundamentalism that they're going to be set off by the use of a word which (only in the most literal sense) describes a religious war that took place hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

Tell me, what do you think when you hear the word "Jihad"?

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-10-20 12:23am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?

I dunno, but when Ike said right before D-Day "Your about to embark on a great crusade" do you think he meant stomping Nazi ass or freeing the holy lands?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-10-20 02:55am

"Cr8sade" is just below "Inquistion" and "Holocuast" in terms of loaded meanings GAP. you are nothing more then a Troll, you ignorant, bigotted FUCK.

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-10-20 03:16am

otter wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?
I dunno, but when Ike said right before D-Day "Your about to embark on a great crusade" do you think he meant stomping Nazi ass or freeing the holy lands?

He meant that they would treat the Nazis the way the Catholics treated the Muslims. How does this make the word "crusade" any less inflammatory?

MarkIX · Post by **MarkIX** » 2003-10-20 05:00am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:"Cr8sade" is just below "Inquistion" and "Holocuast" in terms of loaded meanings GAP. you are nothing more then a Troll, you ignorant, bigotted FUCK.

To whom do you refer sir, If you refer to me sir I demand satisfaction
(i.e. I'd like an explanation)

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-10-20 05:30am

MarkIX wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote:"Cr8sade" is just below "Inquistion" and "Holocuast" in terms of loaded meanings GAP. you are nothing more then a Troll, you ignorant, bigotted FUCK.
To whom do you refer sir, If you refer to me sir I demand satisfaction
(i.e. I'd like an explanation)

GAP stands for Grand Admiral Prawn.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-10-20 05:35am

thanks IB

I really am getting tired of this level of blanket insensitivity and hatred be exposed my mr. Prawn....

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-20 09:45am

otter wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?
I dunno, but when Ike said right before D-Day "Your about to embark on a great crusade" do you think he meant stomping Nazi ass or freeing the holy lands?

Crusade means Holy War... so... Now you have to put this in the context of a war on middle eastern people... see where I am going with this?

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-10-20 09:49am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Crusade means Holy War... so... Now you have to put this in the context of a war on middle eastern people... see where I am going with this?

More specifically, crusade means a war on Islam, so by using it, Dubya declared war on every muslim, not just the extremist terrorists.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-20 09:51am

Oh, no, that wont piss people off and ass-rape our international support

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-10-20 01:53pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
otter wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?
I dunno, but when Ike said right before D-Day "Your about to embark on a great crusade" do you think he meant stomping Nazi ass or freeing the holy lands?
Crusade means Holy War... so... Now you have to put this in the context of a war on middle eastern people... see where I am going with this?

Yes

Everyones entitiled to their own version or definition of the word. For me, when I hear "crusade" I don't automatically think "holy war"

Here in south Florida I read enough about crusades for education, crime, immigration, etc, etc..........

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-20 02:25pm

AdmiralKanos wrote: Tell me, what do you think when you hear the word "Jihad"?

You mean if some Middle Eastern leader had a few thousand of his citizens scattered in pieces across the streets of his largest city, and happened to blurt something about "Jihad" to the press not long thereafter?

Oh yeah, I'd be ever so outraged at his lack of sensitivity for peoples sensitive precious feelings, especially regarding some religious wars they read about in their history books. Really.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-10-20 02:26pm

I can imagine the outrage if someone was to call for a holocaust after Israel next kills civilians.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-10-20 06:50pm

Hey, they were only talking about "Napalming" a military structure......

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-20 07:15pm

Sharp-kun wrote:I can imagine the outrage if someone was to call for a holocaust after Israel next kills civilians.

BUt of course, arawn and others will dismiss that as "stupid" or try to redirect the conversation.

He doesnt seem to understand that, words have a certain meaning, and that how we choose those words, will have an effect on people's perception of us.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-10-20 07:42pm

Also I don't think he understands that less then 5% of the Global population want's to mortally offend 30% of the Global population. (you really want to do that math?)

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-10-20 07:45pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:
AdmiralKanos wrote: Tell me, what do you think when you hear the word "Jihad"?
You mean if some Middle Eastern leader had a few thousand of his citizens scattered in pieces across the streets of his largest city, and happened to blurt something about "Jihad" to the press not long thereafter?

Oh yeah, I'd be ever so outraged at his lack of sensitivity for peoples sensitive precious feelings, especially regarding some religious wars they read about in their history books. Really.

Wow, your depth of understanding is even below shallow...

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-20 10:28pm

Comparing "crusade" to "jihad" is at least somewhat valid. But as far as I know, "holocaust" doesn't refer to warfare at all.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-10-20 10:39pm

How about Ethnic Cleansing? That would apply to warfare...

The thing is, they dont have to apply to war, they are still words that conjure up HORRIBLE negative mental images in those they effect.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-21 12:09am

AdmiralKanos wrote:
otter wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:yeah, but when the president of a large, industrialized nation that is armed to the teeth mentions the word "crusade" what kind of mental pictures are going to come to people's minds?
I dunno, but when Ike said right before D-Day "Your about to embark on a great crusade" do you think he meant stomping Nazi ass or freeing the holy lands?
He meant that they would treat the Nazis the way the Catholics treated the Muslims. How does this make the word "crusade" any less inflammatory?

dictionary.com wrote: cru·sade ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kr-sd)
n.

1. often Crusade Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.
2. A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.
3. A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. See Synonyms at campaign.

WW2 did not take place from the XI-XIII century, nor was it a holy war. That leaves definition 3: A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. I'd call the largest amphibious invasion in the history of warfare vigorous, and it certainly was concerted (albeit with setbacks from WW2-era communications and poor weather).

When one says that one is taking up an anti-smoking crusade, does that mean that they intend to randomly kill smokers and lay siege to Phillip Morris?