Tuesday, October 21, 2003 Posted: 12:25 PM EDT (1625 GMT)
NEW YORK(Reuters) -- The truth is out there, and the Sci-Fi Channel is determined to find it, even if that means suing NASA, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Army and Air Force for documents related to unidentified flying objects.
Sci-Fi, a cable channel that airs fictional programming such as Battlestar Galactica, as well as documentaries that explore the line between fact and science fiction, is part of a group pressuring the federal government to de-classify UFO information.
Last year Sci-Fi joined forces with an investigative journalist, a Washington, DC law firm, and former President Clinton chief of staff John Podesta, to gain release of documents relating to an incident it calls "the new Roswell," a UFO sighting in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania in 1965.
"Now, one year later, despite serious effort to uncover the facts, NASA and the Department of Defense are still maintaining their wall of silence," said Sci-Fi Channel president Bonnie Hammer. "Whether or not this has anything to do with UFOs the public has the right to know."
Now the Sci-Fi Channel is supporting what could turn into a series of lawsuits, first against NASA and then against the Department of Defense, the Army and Air Force, to get classified documents released to the public.
The group said it expects to file the suit against NASA within a week. Representatives from NASA and the Department of Defense were not immediately available for comment.
NASA was chosen as the first agency to be sued because Sci-Fi and the groups' attorney, Lee Helfrich of the Washington, DC-based firm, Lobel, Novins and Lamont, believe that they've fully exhausted their administrative options with the agency, a prerequisite for a judge to agree to hear the case.
While news organizations routinely pursue Freedom of Information Act requests with the government, it's relatively rare for a cable channel, especially one focused on fantasy, not the gathering of news, to pursue such a course of action.
But Hammer sees a great deal of programming potential in pursuing government documents related to UFO sightings, part of the channel's effort to "find the line between science fiction and science fact."
"As we grow the channel, this will become more and more important," Hammer said.
In December 1965, residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania watched a fireball descend into a heavily-forested area 40 miles from Pittsburgh. That night the area was cordoned off by the military, trucks and helicopters came and went, and the town was briefly placed under martial law.
The next day, headlines in the Greensburg, Pennsylvania Tribune-Review read "Unidentified Flying Object Falls Near Kecksburg" and "Army Ropes Off Area," but residents of Kecksburg were never told why the military cordoned off the area and what, if anything, was found.
The results of Sci-Fi's new investigation into the incident will air Friday in a documentary hosted by Bryant Gumbel called "The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed."
In Kecksburg it hired a forestry expert from West Virginia University who discovered growth patterns and core damage to trees there that support a "traumatic event" in 1965.
Sci-Fi, a unit of Vivendi Universal, is among the assets recently sold to General Electric Co.'s NBC. Hammer sees the integration with a network news operation as a potential boon for Sci-Fi's newsgathering efforts.
"If it's something that seems credible, absolutely," said Hammer on the potential of working with NBC journalists. "But we're not going to do it just to create buzz."
Please, let me sum it all up with this line:
:WTF:
theski wrote:Hasn't this been done.... Its called the "Blue Book"
True but the government has a hell of a lot of stuff related to UFOs that they are keeping from the public. I doubt they'll find tales of little green men landing in 1947 but they are hiding stuff. Whether it's test flights of top secret aircraft or what they are keeping a lot hidden.
And in general Blue Book is unsatisfactory in that it tends to be dimissive of a lot of cases.
Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
On the plus side, Kecksburg's economy benefited pretty well because UFO enthusiasts go there and buy alien knick-knacks.
"Show me an angel and I will paint you one." - Gustav Courbet
"Quetzalcoatl, plumed serpent of the Aztecs... you are a pussy." - Stephen Colbert
"Really, I'm jealous of how much smarter than me he is. I'm not an expert on anything and he's an expert on things he knows nothing about." - Me, concerning a bullshitter
Darth Wong wrote:Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
It is. But then again when the government treats both the little green men cases and the more reasonable cases the same it only fuels the conspiracy theorists.
Last edited by Stormbringer on 2003-10-21 11:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
Darth Wong wrote:Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
Out of curiosity, what's you take on Roswell?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Darth Wong wrote:Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
Out of curiosity, what's you take on Roswell?
Is there some hard evidence of something going on there which would warrant a "take"?
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
You know, the other day I was watching some show about Roswell. And these guys were saying the govt has kept an alien ship hidden and they are studying it to make better weapons and aircraft.
Then it occured to me, if we have had a UFO since 1947 we must not have been able to learn much. Cause there is nothing out there that is a such a tremendous leap in technology that it gives any evidence to something other than the natural progress of science and engineering.
The F-22 is certainly an advanced aircraft, but not so advanced that it does anything unexpected. Should'nt we have super aircraft that can wipe the sky's clean of enemies? Why didnt that happen in Vietnam? Computer technology has come largely from the private sector so I dont think there is much going on with alien computational devices.
Of course I dont believe Area 51 is anything other than a place for new planes and such. If they did have a UFO they have not been able to learn anything much over the years.
Darth Wong wrote:Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
Out of curiosity, what's you take on Roswell?
Is there some hard evidence of something going on there which would warrant a "take"?
Ok, do you have an opinion, based on the stories you've heard?
The only hard evidence I know of is that the USAF released a statement saying they recovered a UFO. Then retracted and then came the weather balloo story. It's been changed a few times since.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Gandalf wrote:Ok, do you have an opinion, based on the stories you've heard?
I generally try to avoid basing hypotheses upon hearsay.
The only hard evidence I know of is that the USAF released a statement saying they recovered a UFO. Then retracted and then came the weather balloo story. It's been changed a few times since.
Source, please.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Gandalf wrote:Ok, do you have an opinion, based on the stories you've heard?
I generally try to avoid basing hypotheses upon hearsay.
The only hard evidence I know of is that the USAF released a statement saying they recovered a UFO. Then retracted and then came the weather balloo story. It's been changed a few times since.
Source, please.
A book I have, called Roswell. I forget the author, I'll recover it next itme I'm in Newcastle.
The modern preoccupation with what ultimately came to be called Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) actually began in June, 1947. Although some pro-UFO researchers argue that sightings of UFOs go back to Biblical times, most researchers will not dispute that anything in UFO history can compare with the phenomenon that began in 1947. What was later characterized as "the UFO Wave of 1947" began with 16 alleged sightings that occurred between May 17 and July 12, 1947, (although some researchers claim there were as many as 800 sightings during that period). Interestingly, the "Roswell Incident" was not considered one of these 1947 events until the 1978-1980 time frame. There is no dispute, however, that something happened near Roswell in July, 1947, since it was reported in a number of contemporary newspaper articles; the most famous of which were the July 8 and July 9 editions of the Roswell Daily Record. The July 8 edition reported "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region," while the next day's edition reported, "Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer" and "Harassed Rancher Who Located 'Saucer' Sorry He Told About It."
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Gandalf wrote:The July 8 edition reported "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region," while the next day's edition reported, "Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer" and "Harassed Rancher Who Located 'Saucer' Sorry He Told About It."
Do those newspaper articles also explain what the Royal Australian Air force was doing in New Mexico?
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Gandalf wrote:The July 8 edition reported "RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch In Roswell Region," while the next day's edition reported, "Ramey Empties Roswell Saucer" and "Harassed Rancher Who Located 'Saucer' Sorry He Told About It."
Do those newspaper articles also explain what the Royal Australian Air force was doing in New Mexico?
That's a good question, I'm thinking a typo.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
The top of the article on the website mentions the Army Air Forces (AAF). Maybe the R just stands for Roswell?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Mmm.. In '97 CNN reported the USAF changing it's story for the Roswell Incident from test ballon to test dummy from high altitude ejection tests. Given that this was released on the 50th aniversary of the incident to the day, though, it might just have been some PR guys getting into the spirit.
"You know, those whackos are pretty fun to read. We should give something back."
"Something to ensure even more stuff to read in this boring-ass desert base?"
"I know! Quick, get CNN..."
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Gandalf wrote:The top of the article on the website mentions the Army Air Forces (AAF). Maybe the R just stands for Roswell?
Ive seen this headline before and had the same reaction as Sea Skimmer. I suppose is could be a typo. Or perhaps Reserve Army Air Force. But over all it just looks wrong.
Darth Wong wrote:Obviously, if the military were testing something near civilian territory and things went wrong, they'd prefer to cover it up. It always amazes me how UFO crazies will invariably discard a simple and obvious explanation like that in favour of little green men.
There's an even wider range of explanations than that. Many documents may remain classified because of tangential items. One frequent example is communiques captured through classified sources. The content of the message itself may be innocuous, but the means by which it was captured (specific technologies or equipment, location of secret listening posts, identity of spies) may still be secret. Some political connections can also be considered reason for keeping items classified ("Yeah, we got this info from the CIA chief's weekly pay-off meeting with Pablo Escobar. Mark it 'hush-hush.'")
It's also worth noting that there are reasons besides security classifications that many military (and civilian, for that matter) crash sites are cordoned off. There may well be dangerous chemicals or other materials around an aviation crash site. There's also forensics to be considered -- you don't want important clues trampled under the feet of curious on-lookers or picked up and stuck in someone's pocket as a collector's item. There can even be humanitarian reasons like not wanting some mother to see their son's mutilated body on the front page of the tabloids thanks to a sensationalist asshole of a journalist.
Philip Klass has done a pretty good job of thoroughly researching many of these incidents and finding that the "evidence" is wildly distorted if nor manufactured wholesale while unearthing many other relevant facts that haven't been included in the UFOlogists' standard accounts.
-- Joe Momma
It's okay to kiss a nun; just don't get into the habit.
True but the government has a hell of a lot of stuff related to UFOs that they are keeping from the public. I doubt they'll find tales of little green men landing in 1947 but they are hiding stuff. Whether it's test flights of top secret aircraft or what they are keeping a lot hidden.
And in general Blue Book is unsatisfactory in that it tends to be dimissive of a lot of cases.
There are some points to ponder of about UFOs. An alien race that can violate the laws of physics and travel faster then light would have extremely advanced technology. They would certainly not want that technology to fall in the wrong hands. So why did they not do anything when a UFO supposedly crashed in Roswell ? Flying over cities and abducting people also does not help much.
UFOlogists also fail to explain why would aliens do the sort of things UFOlogists claim do. Come to think of it. Why would someone travel lightyears only to abduct people and fly over cities ? It does not achieve anything.
IMHO if the aliens were real they would have either contacted us, destroyed us if they perceived us a threat or they may totaly ignore us so that we are not contaminated by superior alien technology. In the end I believe in the last possibility. Aliens may indeed exist but they have either never visited earth or do not know we exist.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
Gandalf wrote:The top of the article on the website mentions the Army Air Forces (AAF). Maybe the R just stands for Roswell?
Thats not how the system works.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Gandalf wrote:The top of the article on the website mentions the Army Air Forces (AAF). Maybe the R just stands for Roswell?
Ive seen this headline before and had the same reaction as Sea Skimmer. I suppose is could be a typo. Or perhaps Reserve Army Air Force. But over all it just looks wrong.
It's Roswell Army Air Force. Just the local newspaper abbreviating it. Roswell didn't have reserve units being at the time home to the only atomic bomb capable air force group.
