Islam - the Tip Toe Factor

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-25 01:04am

AniThyng wrote: i think you have malaysia confused for Indonesia. population of Malaysia is a mere 23 million, [a figure i grabbed of the CIA world factbook. convenient little thing, that. ] versus 200 mil for indonesia.

Yeah, doh, my mistake

to adress dr. M's homophobia and sexual conservitism. remember that he is 74 years old, and also religious.

And he's pretty much ruled your country for 22 years. I find that
a teeny bit suspicious. Do you have unexplained fraud and/or deaths?

i mean, your country has never had to deal with being told what to do since the 1800's.

Uhm, I see you missed the part where the Frenchies tried to tell us
exactly what to do in World War I, etc. America's emergence as
a World Power doign whatever the fuck we want has been a
relatively recent period of history, limited to the Post 1945 era,
and even then, we had to deal with the Russians telling us what
to do in the UN

re: anuar case. bloody cock-up, that. opinions vary. my father, who is very much a engineer and liberal man, insisted to me that he was a traitor who was going to sell malaysia's soul to america. some people believe he was imprisioned because he was trying to unseat mahathir and overplayed his hand. and some just seize on the sodomy thing and say that he is immora;=l and unfit to govern.

So in other words, Third World Politics at it's best?

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-25 01:30am

And he's pretty much ruled your country for 22 years. I find that
a teeny bit suspicious. Do you have unexplained fraud and/or deaths?

well, quite simply most of the electorate is more concerned with the economy and stability then gay rights. we don't have a 8 year only rule like you guys so as long as he can command the respect of the majority of people his party will win and he will be PM.
it doesn't help that the opposition is comprised of a fundie islam party and a chinese chauvinist party. and in a attempt to capitalise on the anuar case, the DAP[democratic action party, chinese based] allied with the islamic party and got very badly burned by moderate chinese voters who would rather see another 5 years of dr. M then a potential islamic theocracy.

no unexplained deaths. you hear alot of allegations of electorial fraud, but none is substantiated. more to the point, two of the more rural[but resource rich] malay heartland states are under opposition state governments, and there are a significant amount of opposition MPs in parliarment, particularly in northern Penang state, [where AMD makes its chips. damn i want that Athlon 64.]and the capital Kuala Lumpur itself.

so, no, we do not have nonsense like 99% electorial turnout with 120% of the vote going to the party candidate

Uhm, I see you missed the part where the Frenchies tried to tell us
exactly what to do in World War I, etc. America's emergence as
a World Power doign whatever the fuck we want has been a
relatively recent period of history, limited to the Post 1945 era,
and even then, we had to deal with the Russians telling us what
to do in the UN

this has always amused me. over here we are more aware of your Veto powers and consider the UN to be your tool

say,off-topic, enlighten me. were the russians in the UN with influence during the Korean war? did they actually approve of the "UN Command" that would push the commies back?

So in other words, Third World Politics at it's best?

keheheh. hey LOOK! A three headed monkey!

*runs away*

ahem

yes. at its 'best'. at its worst, the secret police are dragging me from my computer to toss me in a dungeon beneath the presidential palace as we speak.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-25 01:45am

AniThyng wrote: well, quite simply most of the electorate is more concerned with the economy and stability then gay rights. we don't have a 8 year only rule like you guys so as long as he can command the respect of the majority of people his party will win and he will be PM.

Well, back when we were just a new nation and George Washington was
president, Washignton and the rest of Founders had read a lot of
Gibbons, and they had noticed that the average time that a
Roman Emperor had in power before he was killed or overthrown
was about eight years, so they basically followed the tradition of
just two four year terms set by Washington; it wasn't codified into law
until after FDR's death; everyone agreed that president for 12 years was
just too long.

it doesn't help that the opposition is comprised of a fundie islam party and a chinese chauvinist party. and in a attempt to capitalise on the anuar case, the DAP[democratic action party, chinese based] allied with the islamic party and got very badly burned by moderate chinese voters who would rather see another 5 years of dr. M then a potential islamic theocracy.

Well, so I guess there's something good about M's party then. ANYTHING
is better than a Hard KKKore Islamic Theocracy, even if Dr M sounds like
a fundie at times when he gets into his long rambling speeches.

no unexplained deaths. you hear alot of allegations of electorial fraud, but none is substantiated. more to the point, two of the more rural[but resource rich] malay heartland states are under opposition state governments, and there are a significant amount of opposition MPs in parliarment, particularly in northern Penang state, [where AMD makes its chips. damn i want that Athlon 64.]and the capital Kuala Lumpur itself.

Hmm, interesting. Do you have Hanging Chads?

so, no, we do not have nonsense like 99% electorial turnout with 120% of the vote going to the party candidate

Ah, you mean Saddam Hussein's Election right before the War wasn't
legal? Oh the Horrors!:lol:

this has always amused me. over here we are more aware of your Veto powers and consider the UN to be your tool

Well, everyone on the Security council can veto it. The French, British,
Russians, and I think the CHinese have veto power along with the US.

say,off-topic, enlighten me. were the russians in the UN with influence during the Korean war? did they actually approve of the "UN Command" that would push the commies back?

That was the one day their guy wasn't at the security council; since then
they've never missed a meeting

keheheh. hey LOOK! A three headed monkey!

Ahh Monkey Island Fan then.

yes. at its 'best'. at its worst, the secret police are dragging me from my computer to toss me in a dungeon beneath the presidential palace as we speak.

Over here we just have the ATF.......*sound of door being knocked down*

"FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!"

"Uh wha? I don't have any guns..."

*sound of MP-5s firing*

"He was reaching for a gun! Oh wait, it was his computer mouse. Oh well, good shoot!"

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-25 02:05am

Well, back when we were just a new nation and George Washington was
president, Washignton and the rest of Founders had read a lot of
Gibbons, and they had noticed that the average time that a
Roman Emperor had in power before he was killed or overthrown
was about eight years, so they basically followed the tradition of
just two four year terms set by Washington; it wasn't codified into law
until after FDR's death; everyone agreed that president for 12 years was
just too long.

reminds me about the fictional turtledove Teddy Rosevelt when he made his speech saying just because washington did it doesn't mean he must do it too.

well, the Good thing is that the party is generally moderate and is cooperative with the interests of non-muslim citizens on the country.
we do have our problems with the majority malay population at times, but they're something that i have learnt to deal with in my life and its not enough to impact my desire to moderate and reply to critism of his policies.

and we mark our ballots with a big X.

RE: UN
well, yeah, China and the rest too. but the perception is the problem. but i'm not going to bother with that point now. just noting it.

hat was the one day their guy wasn't at the security council; since then
they've never missed a meeting

ahhhhh.

Ahh Monkey Island Fan then.

definately. MI 3 in particular. 4 was dodgy. 1 stumped me as a kid

heh.

Lucasarts adventure games rock in general.

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2003-10-25 03:33pm

AniThyng wrote:
Well, back when we were just a new nation and George Washington was
president, Washignton and the rest of Founders had read a lot of
Gibbons, and they had noticed that the average time that a
Roman Emperor had in power before he was killed or overthrown
was about eight years, so they basically followed the tradition of
just two four year terms set by Washington; it wasn't codified into law
until after FDR's death; everyone agreed that president for 12 years was
just too long.
reminds me about the fictional turtledove Teddy Rosevelt when he made his speech saying just because washington did it doesn't mean he must do it too.

well, the Good thing is that the party is generally moderate and is cooperative with the interests of non-muslim citizens on the country.

Just slightly more cooperative if you happen to be a Bumiputra.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-25 05:05pm

Just slightly more cooperative if you happen to be a Bumiputra.

sarcastic, aren't we?

well, i know what you probably mean. it can change, you know. there are those bumi's who genuinely worked hard to get where they are, and they don't want to be just told that the only reason there are there is because they are being affirmative actioned.

there are also the deadwood. but no one has tried to ditch them as much as Dr. M. but they still vote, you know. and it wouldn't do to have them run into the arms of PAS.

i think there is at least one other malaysian here on this board. should he appear. it would be interesting to see where he stands.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-25 07:42pm

AniThyng wrote:
there are also the deadwood. but no one has tried to ditch them as much as Dr. M. but they still vote, you know. and it wouldn't do to have them run into the arms of PAS.

Anyone mind giving me a quick thumbnail sketch of what this is about?

Sounds interesting...you don't have to tell me in excruciating detail, Just
a few sentences

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-25 08:01pm

Sir Sirius wrote:And engage in gay bashing, picket the funerals of gay bashing victims, maintain website that glorify gay bashing, wish to build monuments to glorify gay bashing, promote legislation that will opress homosexuals, bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors who perform abortions.

And who comprise an infinitesimal fraction of the total population and are viewed as a lunatic fringe, as opposed to the fundie whackjobs being the ones in control as in the Muslim world.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-26 01:19am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:
Sir Sirius wrote:And engage in gay bashing, picket the funerals of gay bashing victims, maintain website that glorify gay bashing, wish to build monuments to glorify gay bashing, promote legislation that will opress homosexuals, bomb abortion clinics and murder doctors who perform abortions.
And who comprise an infinitesimal fraction of the total population and are viewed as a lunatic fringe, as opposed to the fundie whackjobs being the ones in control as in the Muslim world.

Actually, violent Christians are much more common in other parts of the world. The problem is better correlated to geography than religion; in the parts of the world where violent Muslims live, the Christians are often violent too. Perhaps little incidents such as Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, and Lebanon escaped your attention.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-26 01:23am

Bumiputera = 'sons of the soil' i.e. the Malays

PAS = Islamic Party of Malaysia = Extremist

well, Xisiqomelir is Singaporean so i figured he'll know what i meant

basically there are quite a few malays who think that the affirmative action programs put in place in the 70's are now thier right rather then a temperory priviledge to enable them to acheive some level of econominc parity, and consequently they do not work as hard as they should be.

you'll probably never see those speeches, but he has railed against those types of malays. but he cannot undo the programs quickly, there will be backlashes. they are currently being slowly rolled back.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 01:29am

AniThyng wrote: basically there are quite a few malays who think that the affirmative action programs put in place in the 70's are now thier right rather then a temperory priviledge to enable them to acheive some level of econominc parity, and consequently they do not work as hard as they should be.

Hey cool, you have your own affirmative action fucknuts over there!

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-10-26 01:38am

MKSheppard wrote: Hey cool, you have your own affirmative action fucknuts over there!

And thus Shep discovers he, too, has common ground with furriners.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-26 01:43am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
MKSheppard wrote: Hey cool, you have your own affirmative action fucknuts over there!
And thus Shep discovers he, too, has common ground with furriners.

Satan's cold.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-26 01:47am

*waits patiently for someone to respond to my post by trotting out the "Lebanese Christians weren't real Christians" argument, or better yet, the "OK, violent Christians aren't the 'virtually nonexistent' fringe in some parts of the world, but Muslims are still worse" backpedalling maneuver*

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-26 01:48am

now someone tell me what a furriner is.....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 01:50am

AniThyng wrote:

now someone tell me what a furriner is.....

Redneck-speak for "Foreigner"

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 01:51am

Darth Wong wrote:*waits patiently for someone to respond to my post by trotting out the "Lebanese Christians weren't real Christians" argument, or better yet, the "OK, violent Christians aren't the 'virtually nonexistent' fringe in some parts of the world, but Muslims are still worse" backpedalling maneuver*

We're tired of arguing over this shit at the moment. Maybe tomorrow I'll
reply but not now.

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-26 01:52am

ahh i was just about to post

"after repeating it to myself a few times while pondering why google was giving me only 10 hits, i figured it out lol"

AniThyng · Post by **AniThyng** » 2003-10-26 01:00am

edit: okay. much more then ten, after modifying my keywords a little. my bad.

ah whatever.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-26 12:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:Actually, violent Christians are much more common in other parts of the world. The problem is better correlated to geography than religion; in the parts of the world where violent Muslims live, the Christians are often violent too. Perhaps little incidents such as Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, and Lebanon escaped your attention.

How many limb-severing fundamentalist Christian states are out there?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-26 12:48pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Actually, violent Christians are much more common in other parts of the world. The problem is better correlated to geography than religion; in the parts of the world where violent Muslims live, the Christians are often violent too. Perhaps little incidents such as Yugoslavia, Northern Ireland, and Lebanon escaped your attention.
How many limb-severing fundamentalist Christian states are out there?

None. People have, in general, realized that putting Christians in charge is a moronic thing to do. And most violent Christians don't severe limbs, that I've met. THey use powertools on your joints.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 12:51pm

SirNitram wrote:THey use powertools on your joints.

Actually, they don't drill it out anymore; they drill into your kneecap,
and then let the tool hang down, and crunch up your knee even worse
than drilling it out would do...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-26 01:08pm

MKSheppard wrote:
SirNitram wrote:THey use powertools on your joints.
Actually, they don't drill it out anymore; they drill into your kneecap,
and then let the tool hang down, and crunch up your knee even worse
than drilling it out would do...

That's still 'using powertools on your joints', Mark. Thank you, though, for pointing out the level of cruelty and inhumanity possessed by today's violent Christians.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 01:14pm

SirNitram wrote: That's still 'using powertools on your joints', Mark. Thank you, though, for pointing out the level of cruelty and inhumanity possessed by today's violent Christians.

This reminds me of the time a drug gang leader here in the states
knew someone was fucking him over, and he bent the guy over a
pool table and sodomised him with a pool cue

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-10-26 01:19pm

It's interesting to note that some of the parties mentioning "But what about those awful Christians" are the same peopel who complain bitterly when in a debate about the Bush administration others bring in Bill Clinton.