Get me the M-240, I've got fools to shoot.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 07:11am

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20031 ... -8419r.htm

'Smart stamps' next in war on terrorism

By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Sending an anonymous love letter or an angry note to your congressman? The U.S. Postal Service will soon know who you are.

Beginning with bulk or commercial mail, the Postal Service will require "enhanced sender identification" for all discount-rate mailings, according to the notice published in the Oct. 21 Federal Register. The purpose of identifying senders is to provide a more efficient tracking system, but more importantly, to "facilitate investigations into the origin of suspicious mail."

The Postal Service began to look into updating mailing procedures after the anthrax scares in October 2001 when an unknown person or persons sent several U.S. senators and news organizations envelopes filled with the deadly toxin. Two post office workers died from handling envelopes laced with anthrax.

"This is a first step to make the mail more secure," said Joel Walker, customer service support analyst for the mailing-standards office.

But what has privacy advocates concerned is a report by a presidential commission that recommends the post office develop technology to identify all individual senders, which is directly referenced in the Federal Register notice. The proposed regulations are open for public comment through Nov. 20 to the Postal Service.

"The President's Commission on the United States Postal Service recently recommended the use of sender identification for every piece of mail," the Federal Register stated. "Requiring sender- identification for discount-rate mail is an initial step on the road to intelligent mail."

Also cited in the notice are two congressional committee recommendations urging the Postal Service to explore the concept of sender identification, including the "feasibility of using unique, traceable identifiers applied by the creator of the mailpiece."

"We're not ready to go there yet, but we are trying to make an initial step to make all mail, including discount mail, easily identified as to who the sender is," Mr. Walker said.

"Smart stamps" or personalized stamps with an embedded digital code would identify the sender, destination and class.

In October 2001, a letter was sent to then-Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, South Dakota Democrat, from a bogus New Jersey address. In theory, smart stamps would allow authorities to better identify would-be assailants.

"The postal notice itself says this is the first step to identify all senders, so this is not a matter of paranoia, this is reality. The post office is moving towards identification requirements for everyone," said Chris Hoofnagle, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

Mr. Hoofnagle scoffed at the notion identification could prevent crimes such as the anthrax attacks on members of Congress and news media two years ago.

"Anyone resourceful enough to obtain anthrax can get a stamp" without going through the new channels, Mr. Hoofnagle said.

A Treasury Department report from the Mailing Industry Task Force also recommended that "the industry promote development of the 'intelligent' mail piece by collaborating with the Postal Service to implement standards and systems to make every mail piece — including packages — unique and trackable."

"What happens if I buy stamps and you need one, is it legal for me to give it to you?" Mr. Hoofnagle said.

Ari Schwartz, associate director for the Center for Democracy and Technology, said intelligent mail can play an important role and improve the mail system.

However, privacy issues must be seriously addressed, and moving forward with the rules on bulk mail could alleviate some concerns, he said.

"There is a right to anonymity in the mail. If you look back in the history of this country, the mail has played an important role in free expression and political speech and anonymous mail has provided that," Mr. Schwartz said.

Capitol Hill staffers dismissed the potential for abuse by politicians who might use the system to track anonymous critics.

"A petty staff member, maybe, but I doubt a member of Congress would do that," said one Senate aide.

Added a senior House staffer: "A politician getting even with someone? Nah, it just saves us the trouble of having to reply to the letter."

****************************************

I really want to empty a belt of 7.62 into these fucking idiots. What
a bunch of fascist fucknuts.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-26 10:51am

That's just great. High tech personalized stamps. How exactly is the Post Office going to afford them, or is this a plot by the adminstration to put the USPS out of business so it can be done "better and cheaper" by one of their private sectore buddies.

Personalized stamps, just what we need. We'll have to lock up our own individual stamps so others can't use them. I also don't want to know what the lines to get stamps will be like. I guess that I'd be using automatic withdrawal/bill pay on more stuff.

It's interesting that we would even consider personalizing stamps before we'd bother doing the same thing for bullets, but then I'm sure more people die from the mail than they do from bullets.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-10-26 11:10am

What a waste of time. Unless, they make is illegal to send a letter without your personal id stamps then isn't this a waste of time for criminals. As for Congressmen not retaliating against critics give me a break.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-10-26 12:16pm

Does this mean I have to stop recycling the SelfAddressed Stamp Envelopes people send in with their Birth Certificate requests?
(we never use them because it's too much damn trouble to keep track of the stupid things for the two weeks it takes to process the certificate, and they just get thrown away otherwise.)

Damn. Pity too, it's so easy to whiteout the old address and write where I want it to go. Lots cheaper than buying my own stamps and envelopes too.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-10-26 12:40pm

Nobody uses the USPS anyway.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-26 02:04pm

Personalized stamps would be an annoyance and an economic boondoggle. However, if it were possible to accurately track mail to its source, certain types of terrorism would be mitigated. The problem is primarily technological, ie- can we do it? I don't see the connection to fascism at all; how is it a fundamental right to be able to send mail to someone without the recipient knowing it was you?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-26 02:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:I don't see the connection to fascism at all; how is it a fundamental right to be able to send mail to someone without the recipient knowing it was you?

I see the entire point of anomyous mail just shot way over your head.

With this, you wouldn't be able to leak anything anymore by dumping
it into the mail and having the package end up on a
journalist's doorstep with no connectino at all to you whatsoever.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-26 02:21pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I don't see the connection to fascism at all; how is it a fundamental right to be able to send mail to someone without the recipient knowing it was you?
I see the entire point of anomyous mail just shot way over your head.

Not the point; the necessity.

With this, you wouldn't be able to leak anything anymore by dumping
it into the mail and having the package end up on a journalist's doorstep with no connectino at all to you whatsoever.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Given the rarity of such occasions, a common device known as a pay phone still works fine. Not to mention simply driving up to his doorstep and dropping it off in the middle of the night.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2003-10-26 02:28pm

Easy way to get around that anon stuff:

Get a vino or some homeless dude to buy the stamps for you.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-10-26 07:11pm

It seemed more of a security risk then ever before if they implement it. Think about it, if someone steals my stamps and sends in a lot of bad shit in then I'M FUCKED.

Cyaround,
Jason

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-26 07:15pm

Sounds like an incredible fucking pain in the ass.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-26 09:52pm

Howedar wrote:Sounds like an incredible fucking pain in the ass.

Oh, I agree that it sounds like a half-baked idea which won't work. I just don't agree with the people screaming that it's fascism.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-26 10:19pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Nobody uses the USPS anyway.

Actually, most people use the USPS and in fact, handles far more mail and packages than any postal service in America by far.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2003-10-26 10:42pm

Hey wong, what if said journalist lives, say, across the country? And what if the evidence needs to be physically provided? So what if it's rare, when it happens it's big enough to be important. Plus what if you want do something like an aynomous love letter or something? And what happens with counterfeits and stolen stamps?

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-10-27 01:01am

Then again, there's always encrypted email, since to send something, you need the other person's public key, but not your own. Install masqmail, exim, sendmail, whatever. on your laptop, plug it into a public place, send it off, and you're set. Then again, some morons will always cry out why is this so easily available to terrorists... , like outlawing it is going to do any good, since they can just ignore the law and/or fetch stuff off of some server in some foreign nation, and if it's too obvious, use steganography.

And this is stupid. The monetary cost and privacy implications(however minor) far outweigh the very small amount of death/injury/whatever it could prevent. Yes, more people die from mail than bullets

.

Seriously, what percentage of stalkers send mail vs doing other things?

And there is a possiblity that the system can be broken into.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-27 01:47am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Nobody uses the USPS anyway.
Actually, most people use the USPS and in fact, handles far more mail and packages than any postal service in America by far.

I think he meant that most people use email.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-27 02:32am

Howedar wrote:I think he meant that most people use email.

I don't think they do. You can't send a package via a phone line and most people don't pay bills, receive and send notices, or even exchange personal letters via email.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-10-27 12:11pm

I know. Don't shoot the translator, Gil...

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-10-27 02:48pm

darthdavid wrote:Hey wong, what if said journalist lives, say, across the country? And what if the evidence needs to be physically provided? So what if it's rare, when it happens it's big enough to be important. Plus what if you want do something like an aynomous love letter or something? And what happens with counterfeits and stolen stamps?

This is ridiculous, I can think of many more positives than negatives in allowing the authorities to trace the mail more effectively. The love letter thing is absurd, the average person recieving those is not going to get the authorities to track it just so they can know who it is. The right of a person to find out who sent them something harmful in the mail outweighs the right to privacy of the person sending the mail.
The most valid arguement is the counterfeits or stolen stamps. I don't think this will be implemented due to the cost and such invovled. It just isn't that big of a privacy issue as some of you make it out to be.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-10-27 04:00pm

darthdavid wrote:Hey wong, what if said journalist lives, say, across the country? And what if the evidence needs to be physically provided? So what if it's rare, when it happens it's big enough to be important.

Dude, I wouldn't trust that sort of thing to an anonymous mailing through USPS. I've seen packages mangled by them before.

Plus what if you want do something like an aynomous love letter or something?

*cough*STALKER*cough*

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-10-27 05:53pm

darthdavid wrote: Plus what if you want do something like an aynomous love letter or something?

Shell out the bucks and send a cardless bouquet of flowers (or something else). That way the person doesn't know who you are but if necessary the authorities could probably find out.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-10-27 06:07pm

In the case of the journalist living scross the country, you could simply send the mail using a private sector carrier, I'm sure they wont mind you not leaving a return address, or you could use a fake name and address...nothing says the private sector boys have to have the personalized stamps. IMHO, this would be a good idea, if it would work (Which it will not) and for security's sake, I say "Bring it on". and yes, I subscribe to the "Those who haven't done anything wrong have nothing to fear" theory.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-10-28 01:59am

Death from the Sea wrote:This is ridiculous, I can think of many more positives than negatives in allowing the authorities to trace the mail more effectively.

To mail a package, you have to go to the post office and mail it personally,
you can't just drop it off outside your house with a bunch of stamps on it
anymore for the mailman to pick up.

And the Feds are more than good enough to trace any letter to it's origin
point without this statist crap. I remember a case from the 50s or 60s
where the Secret Service actually tracked down an unmarked letter with
no markings on it except for the address of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
right down to it's source; some bratty kid who had written it in class, by
tracing the manfacturer of the paper, etc.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-28 02:09am

MKSheppard wrote:
Death from the Sea wrote:This is ridiculous, I can think of many more positives than negatives in allowing the authorities to trace the mail more effectively.

To mail a package, you have to go to the post office and mail it personally, you can't just drop it off outside your house with a bunch of stamps on it anymore for the mailman to pick up.

You are attacking implementation issues, rather than discussing the underlying issue: what is inherently fascist about the concept of a trackable mail system?

And the Feds are more than good enough to trace any letter to it's origin point without this statist crap. I remember a case from the 50s or 60s where the Secret Service actually tracked down an unmarked letter with no markings on it except for the address of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue right down to it's source; some bratty kid who had written it in class, by tracing the manfacturer of the paper, etc.

One example hardly proves a rule, Shep. The unabomber was not so easily found.