Data: Microsoft of MacIntosh?

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2002-10-01 09:40pm

If Data were to be constructed today, (taking into account his numerous flaws and the limited production run of Soong-type androids) would he be a Microsnot or MacIntrash product?

Secondary note: Data is stated to be incapable of verbal contractions; yet in several instances throughout the first and into the second seasons of TNG, he employs them and even appears to experience emotion. What gives?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-01 09:50pm

Data suffers from all of the lack of processing capacity of a Macintosh and the frequent systems errors of a Microsoft product. He combines the BoBW.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-10-01 09:55pm

What's even worse is that in 'Datalore' after Wesley points out that a big reason why Lore gave himself away was that he used contractions, Data himself uses them, and nobody notices.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2002-10-01 10:02pm

Cyril wrote:What's even worse is that in 'Datalore' after Wesley points out that a big reason why Lore gave himself away was that he used contractions, Data himself uses them, and nobody notices.

Roddenberry's crew was already slipping, even then... how sad...

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2002-10-01 10:02pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Data suffers from all of the lack of processing capacity of a Macintosh and the frequent systems errors of a Microsoft product. He combines the BoBW.

iMac running WindowsXP?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-10-01 10:04pm

I bet Data would be a Cyrix product.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2002-10-01 10:14pm

AOL. "Welcome! You've got quantum singularities!"

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-10-01 11:46pm

If Data were to be constructed today, (taking into account his numerous flaws and the limited production run of Soong-type androids) would he be a Microsnot or MacIntrash product?

Perish the thought.... Can't vouch for Mac either way, but M$ SUX!!!!
Umm better yet, make him LINUX with an AMD Positronic Matrix! Data saddled with M$ DRM? EWWWWWWW!!! That would not be pretty... Lata and Happy Fragging!

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-02 12:05am

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:If Data were to be constructed today, (taking into account his numerous flaws and the limited production run of Soong-type androids) would he be a Microsnot or MacIntrash product?

Secondary note: Data is stated to be incapable of verbal contractions; yet in several instances throughout the first and into the second seasons of TNG, he employs them and even appears to experience emotion. What gives?

Data stated that contractions were difficult to him, not that he was incapable. So I guess he rarely uses them.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-10-02 12:10am

Master of Ossus wrote:Data suffers from all of the lack of processing capacity of a Macintosh

Objection —the Mac may "lack" processing capacity compared to a Windoze machine, but it uses what it has more efficently; doubly so since it doesn't have to crunch its way through a buggy and overwritten crap OS.

and the frequent systems errors of a Microsoft product.

Windoze —Guilty As Charged.

He combines the BoBW.

I'd think that'd be WoBW, old bean.

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2002-10-02 01:31am

i also object to the Lack of power statement about Macs. Nothing in a home computer can top a G4(although some say the Emotion Engine in a PS2 might be able to) and a G3 was the superior chip when it came out and even today is superior to the Celeron.

Macs only suffer from a lack of developers and the worlds love affair with a cheap whore called Windows.

anyway enough about Mac Vs Windows. This Forum isn't the "My computer is better than yours" forum.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2002-10-02 02:14am

So if Data's either a Mac or a M$-powered, what sci-fi android would be Linux compared to Data?
Marvin?

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-10-02 02:19am

Y'know, if Data were made by Apple, he'd be translucent.

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2002-10-02 02:35am

Data is an Atari Jaguar plain and simple

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-10-02 04:00am

spongyblue wrote:Data is an Atari Jaguar plain and simple

Actually...at times, Data seems little better than an old Radio Shack Trash-80.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-10-02 04:01am

I saw a magazine ad hyping the iMac's "Pentium-crushing" 800mhz processor (Yours for just $3000!) and almost fell out of my chair. Who are they trying to lie to?

You can yammer on about how benchmarks don't mean shit, but when it comes to actually running programs the Mac just doesn't hold up.

http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002 ... cvspc2.htm

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2002-10-02 04:43am

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:I saw a magazine ad hyping the iMac's "Pentium-crushing" 800mhz processor (Yours for just $3000!) and almost fell out of my chair. Who are they trying to lie to?

You can yammer on about how benchmarks don't mean shit, but when it comes to actually running programs the Mac just doesn't hold up.

And as a graphic artist and television master control tech who's worked on platforms in both formats, I can tell you how often Windoze-based applications have crashed and how often Mac apps haven't.

I consider a computer that doesn't crash even once while actually running a programme to be the one that holds up to any test you care to name.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-02 09:11am

i also object to the Lack of power statement about Macs. Nothing in a home computer can top a G4(although some say the Emotion Engine in a PS2 might be able to) and a G3 was the superior chip when it came out and even today is superior to the Celeron.

Ahh the unwashed computer masses

I saw a magazine ad hyping the iMac's "Pentium-crushing" 800mhz processor (Yours for just $3000!) and almost fell out of my chair. Who are they trying to lie to?

No one! Of course the Imac Crushs the Pentium!
Pentium 1 that is...

I'm sorry fokes but right now Intel is sampling 4+Ghtz Chips, Has Demostrated a 6Ghtz(Which I saw)
And at the same time Motarola is planing to sample a 2! Ghtz Chip, Intel Planns to be sampling a 5.5Ghtz one...

Fokes this is a very simple thing, in my many years as a computer Techy and a FULLY LICSENED to do anything from Basic Computer Repair to look after a 100k Sized server farm, I can tell you this much that I learn waaaaay back in ELEMERTY SCHOOL

You can not exceed 100% Efficancy...
Now admitly pound for pound the G4 Proccesor has a slight advantage over the P4, Note the word SLIGHT, in tests it translates to a roughly 5%-10% per clock cycle over the P4, both running at the same speed?
With me so far? Well guess what, the AMD Thunderbird, has been for awhile 10-12% Faster than the p4 at the same clockspeed!

Notice how they never run adds with the AMD Products agianst Apple ones?
Thers a few pretty good damn reasons espcialy considering a AMD Duron 1GHtz runs circles around the 800mhtz G4 and costs lets see when first introduced the Duron cost nearly SEVEN and a half times less! While the G4 was selling for 200-500$ the Duron was at less than $50 dollers....

OAN, I happen to Hate the Apple company with a passion, besides the idioitic designs and colors(The much touted G4 Cases? My P1 case was better three years earlier)
Mostly because, more than anything else, Apple is a Facist Company... Now stick with me here, If you want to buy Apple who do you buy it from? Yes Apple... Spare Parts? Apple as well... Who makes the OS? Apple does of course, The Parts? Untill recently they where 100% Apple made,
The Apple computers are a CLOSED system, one of the reasons they are so increably slow compared to *86x Arctecture and while PC prices fall every single fucking day, IF I want an Apple, I will be paying out the noise

Anyway enough ranting, Oh and to those people who hate Windows, Fuck of you have a choise, Be0S, The many colors of Linux, Old Standby Unix, and if your realy desprate you can even get a BRAND NEW Versions of the Mac OS on your PC, Thats right friends, They finaly gave up, Apple is now switching to the PC acrtechture after all this time

anyway back the orgional point, Data by small design and lack of upgrability, appears to be Apple, However he would have to be *Purty which he's not, He hardly ever crashs so he's either Windows 2k or more likey

DOS, Yes he's slow, he's stuiped and he's not exactly quick in any deparment and he's anal about numbers, therfore he must be DOS

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2002-10-02 01:14pm

apparentlly someone didn't read the last part of my post.

Should I talk about the results of a G3 powered iMac vs an equally equipped AMD powered PC? First off you people seemed to have fallen for INTELs marketing ploy of using a very inacurate measure of cpu power. The reason they do it is its the only number thats higher on their chips than the competition( including the AMDs, the Alphas, and the PowerPc series)

Not to mention even my PC loving friend Subbie( aka Chakoo from IGN) admit the Intel chips are still technically 32 bit.

A G3 is 64 bit and a G4 is 64 bit in normal mode and 128 bit with the Alti-Vec turned on.

If you still want to argue the Mac's CPUs are inferior i can still use the Intel vs AMD debate( you know, about how a 1.3 ghz AMD beat a 2 Ghz Pentium in a test)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-02 01:47pm

Mr Bean wrote:No one! Of course the Imac Crushs the Pentium!
Pentium 1 that is...

P3/800EB, maybe. The PPC 7450/800 has somewhat greater IPC than the Coppermine P3/800. Unfortunately, the compilers suck for PPC, for the most part, and it's further compounded by the weak FPU on the G4e series (it is reportedly a backup for non-vectorized code).

And at the same time Motarola is planing to sample a 2! Ghtz Chip, Intel Planns to be sampling a 5.5Ghtz one...

Apple appears to be moving away from Motorola for their high-end chips. It seems that their next major revision will be using IBM's GPUL (ie POWER4 Light) processor. Maybe G5 on the low-end.

You can not exceed 100% Efficancy...

Define 100% efficiency in computer terms.

Now admitly pound for pound the G4 Proccesor has a slight advantage over the P4, Note the word SLIGHT, in tests it translates to a roughly 5%-10% per clock cycle over the P4, both running at the same speed?

Slight? G4e has higher IPC than Northwood or Willamette, but is hobbled due to its low-bandwidth FSB. It's more comperable to compare to a Palamino (maybe Thunderbird), as the two designs have similar IPC.

Thers a few pretty good damn reasons espcialy considering a AMD Duron 1GHtz runs circles around the 800mhtz G4 and costs lets see when first introduced the Duron cost nearly SEVEN and a half times less! While the G4 was selling for 200-500$ the Duron was at less than $50 dollers....

Supply and demand. Few people buy the G4e individually like the Duron. It's not designed primarily as a desktop processor, but rather one for routers and such.

If you want to buy Apple who do you buy it from? Yes Apple...

Well, the machine comes from Apple, but you can buy from elsewhere.

Spare Parts?

Not all of them. RAM, HDs, etc. can be stock components. PSUs, maybe (since ADC requires a 28v header).

Untill recently they where 100% Apple made

Haven't been for years. Ever take a peek inside a Mac IIfx - that ain't all Apple components.

The Apple computers are a CLOSED system, one of the reasons they are so increably slow compared to *86x Arctecture and while PC prices fall every single fucking day, IF I want an Apple, I will be paying out the noise

It's not because it's closed, its because Apple isn't spending their $4bn in cash to develop fast processors. They expect Motorola and IBM to do all the work, except that Motorola's bread and butter are the low-power moderately-powerful parts and IBM's are either the integrated parts or the high-end.

BRAND NEW Versions of the Mac OS on your PC, Thats right friends, They finaly gave up, Apple is now switching to the PC acrtechture after all this time

WTF are you talking about? Darwin != MacOS X.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-02 01:49pm

Moonshadow wrote:A G3 is 64 bit and a G4 is 64 bit in normal mode and 128 bit with the Alti-Vec turned on.

The G3 and G4 have 64-bit FPUs, if that's what you're talking about. IIRC, x86 uses an 80-bit FPU, but I can't recall. Integer-wise, both the G3 and G4 series are 32-bit. Altivec, of course, is 128-bit.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-02 01:52pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002 ... cvspc2.htm

What fool would run AE on a Mac if they want render speed? It should be clear to most people that the 2.53GHz P4B would beat down the shared-FSB twin G4e.

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2002-10-02 02:58pm

on a G4 the regular FPU is as you said a backup and is rarely used . Even without the Atli-Vec fully activated it still is used in normal mode for most FPU task. The Alti-Vec doesn't truely turn off, however it only "works its magic" when software takes FULL advantage of it. The G5 is suposed to use an improved Alti-Vec as its only FPU and eliminate the old G3 FPU completely. The weird two FPU configuration does hurt the G4s performance and the G4s Alti-Vec isn't quite ready to do away with the old FPU yet. However as i said the G5 will have a more improved Alt-Vec

Moonshadow · Post by **Moonshadow** » 2002-10-02 03:06pm

something else i forgot to mention

the X86 with an 80-bit FPU is only used in the XBOX. The other modern X86s have 64 bit FPUs. Also you are mistaking the Gx series for the older PPCs. The older PPCs were 32-bit integer , like the pentium series. However their are several differeces between a Gx PPC and an older PPC. Some even say the Gx series aren't really PPCs, but a more advanced offshoot. The Gx series are indead true 64-bit cpus.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-02 09:40pm

Moonshadow wrote:something else i forgot to mention

the X86 with an 80-bit FPU is only used in the XBOX. The other modern X86s have 64 bit FPUs.

Wrong. The x86 has been 80-bit since the original x87 FPU, not just on the XBox's "Coppermine Lite."

For example, the Pentium 2: http://www.intel.com/design/PentiumII/prodbref/

"A pipelined Floating-Point Unit (FPU) for supporting the 32-bit and 64-bit formats specified in IEEE standard 754, as well as an 80-bit format."

Also you are mistaking the Gx series for the older PPCs. The older PPCs were 32-bit integer , like the pentium series. However their are several differeces between a Gx PPC and an older PPC. Some even say the Gx series aren't really PPCs, but a more advanced offshoot. The Gx series are indead true 64-bit cpus.

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/si ... C7455&node

"The MPC7455 host processor is a high-performance, low-power 32-bit implementation of the PowerPC RISC architecture with a full 128-bit implementation of Motorola's AltiVec technology."

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Data: Microsoft of MacIntosh?

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