Unpaid Parking Tickets to cost countries foreign aid

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-10-28 05:50pm

linky

NEVER, never in my life have I thought that I would actually support a Bill sponsored by not only Chuck Schumer, but Hillary Clinton as well. I'm waiting for a pig to fly by my window right now.

But this is actually kind of funny.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-10-28 10:08pm

This is a good start. I like the idea of towing their cars.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-28 10:15pm

Given the abuses of diplomatic immunity that a lot of third world countries perpetrate I've got no problem with that. They have it coming.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-10-28 10:51pm

That seems fair to me.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-28 10:58pm

Are diplomats paying these out-of-pocket, or are states expected to do so?

This strikes me as supremely extortionistic. It will seem as if we are punishing entire groups of people for petty satisfaction. The potential costs to us in face and popular opinion are greater than $21 million dollars.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-10-28 11:04pm

I like this idea, keeps them somewhat honest. I remember when the UN was bombing Serbia or whoever it was a few years ago, their ambassador in Australia went speeding around in his car, when a cop pulled him over, he claimed diplomatic immunity and drove off. Also, I'd like to refer to Lethal Weapon 2.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-28 11:40pm

Axis Kast wrote:Are diplomats paying these out-of-pocket, or are states expected to do so?

This strikes me as supremely extortionistic. It will seem as if we are punishing entire groups of people for petty satisfaction. The potential costs to us in face and popular opinion are greater than $21 million dollars.

New York has real problem with diplomats abusing their status to cheats rents, avoid tickets, and get away with theft. Parking tickets are just the tip of the iceberg as far as diplomatic shenanigans go. This has been an issue and the UN and the nations involved haven't put a stop to it.

It's not extortion to stop sending money to some one that refuses to pay their debts. They want the money they ought to pay up and shape up.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-10-29 06:25am

Sounds reasonable to me. Diplomatic immunity was not invented to abuse the laws of other nations.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-10-29 09:18am

Didn't Guliani force the issue a few years back by actually towing cars away?

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-29 11:31am

The problem is for whom this has the greatest impact.

Is it really going to be viewed as a slap on the wrist to diplomats, or a slap in the face of people whose goodwill we wish to cultivate?

Only in the case of Kuwait - where legally owed fines outweigh the costs - would I even consider something like this; and then after careful weighing of other issues.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-29 01:37pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:Didn't Guliani force the issue a few years back by actually towing cars away?

Yes he did. And unfortunately the diplomats either took back their car or commandeered (presumably from a motor pool). It never got far.

This is really a continuation of Gulliani's attempt to get the UN diplomats to clean up their act. They've abused diplomatic immunity to avoid paying rent on apartments, meals, and other expenses. Since they can't be legally dealt with there's no recourse for the effected businesses.

Axis Kast wrote:The problem is for whom this has the greatest impact.

Is it really going to be viewed as a slap on the wrist to diplomats, or a slap in the face of people whose goodwill we wish to cultivate?

Probably a little of both. But the fact is these governments are abusing their privileges and will not clean up their act. They have an obligation, moral if not legal, to obey the law and behave themselves. Instead they've abused it, some of them incredibly so, and have done nothing to rectify the situation. Unless they make an effort to clean up their act we're justified in taking action against them.

Axis Kast wrote:Only in the case of Kuwait - where legally owed fines outweigh the costs - would I even consider something like this; and then after careful weighing of other issues.

They have an obligation to obey the law and have instead abused it. All of them deserve it if they won't clean up their act.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-29 06:00pm

Probably a little of both. But the fact is these governments are abusing their privileges and will not clean up their act. They have an obligation, moral if not legal, to obey the law and behave themselves. Instead they've abused it, some of them incredibly so, and have done nothing to rectify the situation. Unless they make an effort to clean up their act we're justified in taking action against them.

We should sacrifice our standing with countries already raising concerns about our foreign policy in general by "sticking it to them" for the antics of a handful of diplomats (in many cases virtually removed from their own countries' populations by wealth and status)? I'm sorry; that just doesn't compute.

These people have an obligation to obey the law, and we should hold them to it where possible. This, however, is a poor way to do so.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-29 06:08pm

Axis Kast wrote:
We should sacrifice our standing with countries already raising concerns about our foreign policy in general by "sticking it to them" for the antics of a handful of diplomats (in many cases virtually removed from their own countries' populations by wealth and status)? I'm sorry; that just doesn't compute.

A diplomat is the chosen representative of a nation, and if they don't losing aid then they can recall them and or revoke their diplomatic status. The fact that they don't do that in the first place is an insult to the US.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-10-29 07:48pm

If these guys are breaking the law this flagrantly, can't we just throw them out or shoot them or something?

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2003-10-29 07:59pm

Axis Kast wrote:Only in the case of Kuwait - where legally owed fines outweigh the costs - would I even consider something like this; and then after careful weighing of other issues.

Yet you would not hesitate to shoot a caged animal for the massive risk it poses to human life!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-10-29 08:15pm

Andrew J. wrote:If these guys are breaking the law this flagrantly, can't we just throw them out or shoot them or something?

Diplomatic immunity.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-10-29 08:21pm

On my last day at Quebec, I got a parking ticket. I parked in a no parking place, but the bed and breakfast people said that it was ok for their guests to park there. Whoops. It had instructions on how to mail the funds to them, etc, etc, and I did intend to pay it. However, the ticket did not survive the trip back over the border.

I've often wondered what would happen if I and when I come back to the city and god forbid get another ticket. All they had was my car make and license plate, my name wasn't anywhere on the paperwork, so if I go back with a different car and license plate, everything would be cool, right?

I'd hate to think I could jeapordize the US's foreign aid.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-10-29 08:32pm

I would think they can try and trace the owner of the license plate number thereby extradited you for misdeamonor*sp* charges.

~Jason

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-10-29 08:39pm

A diplomat is the chosen representative of a nation, and if they don't losing aid then they can recall them and or revoke their diplomatic status. The fact that they don't do that in the first place is an insult to the US.

Chosen by whom? Leadership whose touch with the people is often quite minimal?

You're attempting to punish an aggregate group for the crimes of singular individuals. I agree we should do something to get our money, but not necessarily begin closing the doors to aid money.

Yet you would not hesitate to shoot a caged animal for the massive risk it poses to human life!

That is absolutely correct. And I didn't see you at that argument, smartass. If you've got an opinion on the topic, at least show up in a timely fashion.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-10-29 09:33pm

Why can't we just fucking expel the diplomats and refuse to let them back into the country until the nation in question pays up?

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-10-29 09:55pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Chosen by whom?

The people who are getting US dollars.

You're attempting to punish an aggregate group for the crimes of singular individuals. I agree we should do something to get our money, but not necessarily begin closing the doors to aid money.

Where not shutting off aid, where taking a small bit of it to pay debts they owe.

Why can't we just fucking expel the diplomats and refuse to let them back into the country until the nation in question pays up?

Then they'd simply never pay and send other people.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-10-29 09:59pm

Axis Kast wrote:Are diplomats paying these out-of-pocket, or are states expected to do so?

This strikes me as supremely extortionistic. It will seem as if we are punishing entire groups of people for petty satisfaction.

It's "petty satisfaction" to demand payment of unpaid bills, and to subtract the amount outstanding from money that the US is giving them for free?

The potential costs to us in face and popular opinion are greater than $21 million dollars.

This from someone who insists that America shouldn't give a shit what any country thinks of its unilateral military actions. Rather ironic.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-29 10:41pm

Methinks Axis is a fucking troll.

Not just a troll.

A fucking troll.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-10-29 11:01pm

Iceberg wrote:Methinks Axis is a fucking troll.

Not just a troll.

A fucking troll.

I get the impression that he believes every word he says, so I disagree

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-10-29 11:04pm

How can anybody be THAT self-contradictory?