WH40K Advice - Space Wolves Army

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-27 04:58pm

I'm thinking about putting together a Space Wolves army and I'm wondering what would be a good army. I'm looking for an inexpensive starter army that will serve as the starting point for a larger army.

(PS. Looking to include a Land Raider or Land Raider Crusader at some point because they're so cool)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-10-27 06:22pm

Humm. My expertise on Space Wolves starts and ends with buying the Blood Claws box set to make assault marines without their jump packs.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-27 09:45pm

NecronLord wrote:Humm. My expertise on Space Wolves starts and ends with buying the Blood Claws box set to make assault marines without their jump packs.

Damn, I'm trying to get an idea of what I'd need for a Space Wolves Army since I can't find any good army builder advice sites. I'm trying to decide between the Wolves and the Blood Angels but I'm already set on what I'd need for a Angels army.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-10-27 10:21pm

Start with a unit of Blood Claws and Grey Hunters. Depending on wether or not you want to go close combat or shooting, depends on how much of each you want further.

The Rhino Rush may be dying out soon, so consider a unit of Blood Claws in Bikes or Jump Packs.

For anti-armor, a nasty combination is Long Fangs in a Razorback. If you have horde opponents(or Guard or Tau, even), consider a Leman Russ Exterminator. You're the only Space Marine army cabable of taking a Russ, take advantage of it. Save the Land Raiders until your army gets bigger.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-27 10:25pm

I wasn't planning on getting the heavy armor until later. Just interested in figuring out what to field to start.

So go with some Blood Claws (with jump packs) and Grey Hunters then get some Long Fangs follwed by some armor?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-10-28 01:41am

As a side note, you're, as of just recently, the only army capable of fielding an Exterminator (there is no longer an entry for it in the Guard codex).

As for the Land Raider/Crusader, I have to say I agree. I just played a game of 2600 points against my friend's Templar, and if he had not used his Raiders so fucking effectively, he'd have lost easily against the ridiculous amount of firepower I had with the new Guard rules. Terminator Assault Squads pouring into entrenched Guard positions from the cover of a Raider = bad for Guard.

Ouchies.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-10-28 01:48am

For some reason, I got this strange mental image of the setting of Raiders of the Lost Ark, with Nazis driving in Land Cruisers and T-800 squads assaulting ancient Egyptian ruins.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-10-28 06:43am

Stormbringer wrote:I wasn't planning on getting the heavy armor until later. Just interested in figuring out what to field to start.

So go with some Blood Claws (with jump packs) and Grey Hunters then get some Long Fangs follwed by some armor?

Not quite. Two Blood Claws, one with Jump Packs, Grey Hunters(Remember, two Troop Minimum), and the Long Fangs. I suppose you can get whatever HQ's you like(Wolf Lord, Wolf Guard Leader, Rune Priest, Ven. Dread)

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-28 06:45am

Apart from saying "Get a chaos army you Imperial lapdog!!!" i'll stay quiet as i don't know that much about Space Wolves (only how to kill them)

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-28 12:18pm

Thanks for the help SAMAS. I appreciate the advice. I think I'm going to go with the Venerable Dreadnaught for an HQ.

2000AD wrote:Apart from saying "Get a chaos army you Imperial lapdog!!!" i'll stay quiet as i don't know that much about Space Wolves (only how to kill them)

I looked into a Chaos Army but they just didn;t have the appeal of the Space Wolves.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-28 03:31pm

WHat! How can being some of the ultimate badasses not appeal to you?
What about the hordes of deamons at your beck and call?
The multitudes of slathering mutants?
The companies of tainted marines?
The deamons that appear to be the most beautiful things ever and will grant carnal desires as long as you give them your soul (as if you needed it)

Compared to mister "look at me i'm part wolf" i know what i'd choose!!!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-28 03:34pm

Chaos forces just don't appeal to me, at least not as an army. At least not the Chaos Space Marines, a cultists Imperial Guard might be cool.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-28 03:51pm

Ah well, i just can't understand some people.

*goes back to plotting the fall of the imperium*

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-30 08:04pm

Okay, so would this army work?

HQ- Venerable Dreadnaught

1 (maybe 2) - Grey Hunters

2 - Blood Claws, one with Jump Packs

1 - Long Fangs

1 - Land Raider Crusader (What can I say, I like big armor)

Eventualy (which probably means a long time away) I'd like to go for a balanced shooting and charging army. What are the uses of Scouts, Wolf Guard and Wolf Guard Terminators in game?

And I've got another question, do I really need to by both the Space Wolves and generic Marine Codices?

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-10-30 10:49pm

Stormbringer wrote:Okay, so would this army work?

HQ- Venerable Dreadnaught

1 (maybe 2) - Grey Hunters

2 - Blood Claws, one with Jump Packs

1 - Long Fangs

1 - Land Raider Crusader (What can I say, I like big armor)

Not bad. Although I still say wait on the Land Raider. Not only are they Point Sinks, but the Predator is cheaper, and the LRX is fluffier.

I would also suggest a WG Battle Leader or Rune/Wolf Priest. Remember, Wolves not only ignore the Codex, the also disregard the Force Org. Chart. For every 750 pts, or fraction thereof, you have to take an HQ. So add a Battle Leader to that, and it's pretty good.

Eventualy (which probably means a long time away) I'd like to go for a balanced shooting and charging army. What are the uses of Scouts, Wolf Guard and Wolf Guard Terminators in game?

Scouts -- I can't believe I forgot about them! These guys, with their ability to come out pretty much wherever you want them to, are great for hitting those Devestators/Big Gunz/Suppourt Batteries/Broadsides/etc..., or even Basalisks and such the enemy tries to hide behind terrain. Get a nice sized unit of these.

Wolf Guard -- Veteran Sergeants from hell. Wolves normally don't get Vet Sarges, so they not only act as them, but also a Retinue for your non-dread HQs.

Scary Thought: 8 Blood Claw Jump Packers. Two Powerfists. WG with Power Fist.

Terminators are used pretty much like the ones in other Marine armies: Sparingly.

And I've got another question, do I really need to by both the Space Wolves and generic Marine Codices?

Yes. The Space Wolf Codex only covers the unique stuff the Wolves use. That means none of the vehicles, except the Venerable Dread, are listed at all.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-30 11:18pm

Not bad. Although I still say wait on the Land Raider. Not only are they Point Sinks, but the Predator is cheaper, and the LRX is fluffier.

Egh, I like the Land Raider and the little advice I've had suggests that the Land Raider Crusader is a damn good way to break the enemy when combined with a unit of Blood Claw and a Rune Priest. Besides, I really like Land Raiders. If the Land Raider would be a better option I'm open, but I want a Land Raider.

And given that I'm probably going to be playing at the local Games Workshop whenever I get any army, points aren't a big issue. Those guys feild armies worth a few thousand points.

I would also suggest a WG Battle Leader or Rune/Wolf Priest. Remember, Wolves not only ignore the Codex, the also disregard the Force Org. Chart. For every 750 pts, or fraction thereof, you have to take an HQ. So add a Battle Leader to that, and it's pretty good.

I'll probably go with a Rune Priest.

Scouts -- I can't believe I forgot about them! These guys, with their ability to come out pretty much wherever you want them to, are great for hitting those Devestators/Big Gunz/Suppourt Batteries/Broadsides/etc..., or even Basalisks and such the enemy tries to hide behind terrain. Get a nice sized unit of these.

A must have huh? How many would you recommend?

Wolf Guard -- Veteran Sergeants from hell. Wolves normally don't get Vet Sarges, so they not only act as them, but also a Retinue for your non-dread HQs.

Do I need them?

Scary Thought: 8 Blood Claw Jump Packers. Two Powerfists. WG with Power Fist.

Terminators are used pretty much like the ones in other Marine armies: Sparingly.

I have to say I like the idea.

Yes. The Space Wolf Codex only covers the unique stuff the Wolves use. That means none of the vehicles, except the Venerable Dread, are listed at all.

That's what I thought but I wanted to be sure.

Now to find a job so I can start buying this stuff.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-10-31 01:43am

Stormbringer wrote:
Not bad. Although I still say wait on the Land Raider. Not only are they Point Sinks, but the Predator is cheaper, and the LRX is fluffier.
Egh, I like the Land Raider and the little advice I've had suggests that the Land Raider Crusader is a damn good way to break the enemy when combined with a unit of Blood Claw and a Rune Priest. Besides, I really like Land Raiders. If the Land Raider would be a better option I'm open, but I want a Land Raider.

Oh yes. As I mentioned previously, a Space Marine army whipped me pretty good using a Raider and a Crusader with no traditional fire support from Devastators or Predators. If used correctly, Raiders are more than worth the point cost.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-10-31 02:10am

SAMAS has got about everything covered, though as a dyed in the woll Space Wolves player , I though I might chime-in as well.

Firstly - Scouts are a must have component to any Space Wolf force, the optimal number being a full strength squad of six , which you can then kit out with a plasma gunner, and two models with plasma pistols. Three troopers whos weapons are emminently capable of coring the rear armor of nearly every vehicle in the game. This has the net effect of making you opponents VERY edgy about leaving their support squads and vehicles unattended in his deployment zone as Scouts infiltrate and can enter from the opposite board edge. You can also be a real bastard and attach a Wolf Guard leader to the team and really cause some havoc. My Scouts have saved my ass on more than one occasion by arriving on the scene and smashing a truly offensive squad or vehicle just before they could bring the pain.

Second - Jump packs , deep six the idea. Blood Claws with Jump packs become the most expensive(at 30pts a pop before weapon upgrades) , non-elite, assault troops in the game. Taking them as assault orinented bikers gets you a much better deal with the addition of the Toughness increase(T5) for the bike and the addition of twin-linked bloters on the bike plus the option to dole out power weapons and special weapons to the squad.

As to vehicles , the Land Raider is cool , but it quickly becomes a huge points sink and , more importantly it draws so much fire power that I've rarely had one last more than three turns. A better deal is multiple Predators, especially the Space Wolf friendly Annihilator pattern with a turret mounted twin-linked Lascannon and two Lascannon sponsons and the extra armor upgrade.

Finally, don't underestimate the usefulness of Wolf Guard Terminators, I feild a unit of 6 WGT's as my Lord or Battleleaders bodyguard, and in this I can squeeze 4 Stormbolters, 2 Assault Cannons and all kitted with Power fists. Its kicked ass and taken names on a a number of occassions and often drawn the attentions of a disproportionate amount of my opponents army, leaving the rest of the Army free to pick them apart piece by piece.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-31 01:23pm

Terminators are some of the best trops in the game, due to the hideous amounts of firepower they can give and take. They're not bad in an asualt either if you kit them up right. Downsides are they are expensive (RL and in-game) and tend to attract firepower. Having termies and a land raider will give your opponent a hard choice.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-10-31 01:38pm

2000AD wrote:Having termies and a land raider will give your opponent a hard choice.

Seeing as how most SM players tend to put the termies inside of the land raider, not really. Besides, having both termies and a land raider in anything below a 2,000 point force is a hideous waste of resources.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-31 01:47pm

Yes, but it can be a surprise.

Also don't forget that termies can Deep Strike if the scenario allows it therefor giving them a lot of tactical flexability.
One of the things that can really FUBAR an opponents plan is having a squad of termies appearing in the place he least wants them tol be.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-31 01:54pm

Hotfoot wrote:
2000AD wrote:Having termies and a land raider will give your opponent a hard choice.
Seeing as how most SM players tend to put the termies inside of the land raider, not really. Besides, having both termies and a land raider in anything below a 2,000 point force is a hideous waste of resources.

Yeah, considering my army is going to be growing very, very slowly I think I'll hold off on the terminators for now.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2003-10-31 04:19pm

2000AD wrote:Yes, but it can be a surprise.

The only surprise involved in the "Termies in a Can Raider" is on the part of the newb Marine player as 1/3-1/2 of his total force is wiped out by concentrated anti-tank fire. Imperial Guard can do it pretty nicely, just get a command platoon with two anti-tank squads and a Leman Russ variant (Vanquisher should do nicely) for roughly the same cost. That's 6 lascannons (seven, if you move the vanquisher instead of firing the main gun) and a battle cannon with special AP rounds. Should all get to fire at the land raider in one turn, on average 3 lascannons will hit, one shot glancing or penetrating. If the battlecannon fires with an AT round, the Raider is pretty FUBAR if it hits, especially if one manages to roll a six on the ordnance damage table, killing all the terminators inside the Land Raider.

Against Eldar, well, that 14 armor doesn't help you much against bright lances.

Also don't forget that termies can Deep Strike if the scenario allows it therefor giving them a lot of tactical flexability.
One of the things that can really FUBAR an opponents plan is having a squad of termies appearing in the place he least wants them tol be.

This is true. At the moment, my primary defense against such insertions is a squad of Rough Riders who can cover most parts of my deployment zone inside of one turn if need be, assault the termies and usually kill them with the hunting lances.

Stormbringer wrote:Yeah, considering my army is going to be growing very, very slowly I think I'll hold off on the terminators for now.

A wise choice. While I will certainly admit that Termies and Land Raiders are very cool minis overall, and quite powerful in game, you generally need to get what will help you achieve your objectives in any given game, be it defense, assault, or whatever. I'm not an expert on Space Marine force construction, much less Space Wolves (who are something of a Special Case even among the Space Marines), but I always tend to focus on infantry first, then flesh out the rest of the force from there. Get your HQ unit (I would suggest a Deathwatch Kill Team, myself, though they are more expensive than the individual characters, I prefer a degree of quantity over quality) and 2-4 Troop units (and maybe 1-2 Elite units, like the Scouts mentioned). From there, the assault bikes look like a good idea, get a squad or two of them going (Perhaps get 6-8 bikes, splitting them into squads of 3-4, combining them if you need additional fast attack slots). Your first tank should initially be a predator of some sort, as they are solid and relatively inexpensive (point wise) tanks. If you really want heavier armor and firepower, go with the Leman Russ style tanks. Cheaper than the Land Raiders, and just as (if not more) effective as far as firepower is concerned, since they are dedicated tanks, not heavy troop transports. Your first heavy support, however, I would suggest that you get a Long Fang pack or two and load up on heavy weapons that way. The key being here that you don't want all of your eggs in one basket.

But in any case, I digress. Cost wise, here's perhaps the best starting point

HQ: 1xIndependent Leader
Troops: 2xTac Squads

That's the bare bones minimum. Problem is the HQ unit. I have a problem when my HQ unit is just one model, but then I'm a guard player, one HQ selection can easily mean well over a dozen models.

If you have a larger HQ unit squad, each individual model might be weaker overall, but they'll be more effective once the dice start rolling. If your one leader misses, he misses. If one or two models in a squad miss, the rest can still hit. This is very important when facing down armies like Guard, Eldar, Orks, and 'Nids, because the more damage you can do each turn on average, the better. Relying on one die roll to pull you through can be disasterous. Of course, your option of the Rune Priest does allow for a bodyguard to be added, so it's not a bad decision overall.

Just remember, even for a 500 point battle you're going to want something that can penetrate armor reasonably well, even if it's just a Meltagun. In fact, consider getting a Razorback for one of your units, kit the unit out with devestating short-range and close-combat weaponry, shove them in the back of a Razorback, and use them to punch a hole in the enemy line. The inclusion of the Razorback early on gives you some heavier firepower and some speed, which you can later augment with a bike assault squad or two. The Razorbacks providing covering fire while the marines inside pour out, the bikes coming around to flank the enemy units (if they break, they'll get wiped out running into the bikers), it's all good.

But now I'm just rambling. Rune Priest + Bodyguard, 2 tac squads, plus one of those three in a razorback should make for a decently effective and versatile ~500 point force deployment.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-10-31 05:37pm

My army:

HQ- Venerable Dreadnaught
Rune Priest

2 - Grey Hunters

2 - Blood Claws, one with Jump Packs

1 - Long Fangs

1- Scout squad of six

1 - Land Raider Crusader (I'm determined to have one of these)
_______________________________________________________

After that, I think I'll just wait and see what I want to add to my army but I think this will do nicely as a core.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-10-31 05:46pm

Hotfoot wrote:
2000AD wrote:Yes, but it can be a surprise.
The only surprise involved in the "Termies in a Can Raider" is on the part of the newb Marine player as 1/3-1/2 of his total force is wiped out by concentrated anti-tank fire. <snip>

Against Eldar, well, that 14 armor doesn't help you much against bright lances.

I meant deploying the termies outside the LR would be a surprise, though i should have worded it better. In hindsight it also seems not to be much of a surprise.
And weren't there soe rule published in WD about troops in transports being able to come out alive?