Tie Fighters -v- Shuttle Craft

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-02 03:02pm

Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?

Nobody · Post by **Nobody** » 2002-10-02 03:07pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?

Distraction...

IIRC the Shuttle craft are Unarmed, and have only transporters... So theirs reall nothing they could do but TIE bait...

Patrick Ogaard · Post by **Patrick Ogaard** » 2002-10-02 03:28pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?

Definitely not. Actually, a Galaxy class ship has (at least according to the blueprints) space for several dozen shuttle craft and shuttle pods.

The problem is that shuttle craft are designed as spacegoing delivery vans, as opposed to spacegoing fighters. (Not to mention the massive power differences between Trek and Wars vessels.)

Shuttle craft have:

a) low maneuverability relative to Wars escape pods (only slight exaggeration)

b) unimpressive acceleration relative to Wars fighters

c) weak weapons when armed at all (usu. 2 type 4 or 5 phaser emitters equivalent to maybe 1/400th a GCS main array, and possible microtorps)

d) touch pad controls that make fast maneuvering impossible without preprogrammed, predictable attack and evasion patterns

e) tiny power systems and engines relatie to Wars fighters, and power systems that likely do not compare favorably in output per unit size

f) huge cargo spaces and correspondingly enormous target profiles for fighters

g) side-by-side pilot/copilot arrangements that make the wide-bodied shuttles even wider

In summary, a swarm of several dozen armed shuttle craft would likely provide little more than a half-minute of target practice for a squadron of TIE fighters.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-10-02 03:29pm

Looking at the runabouts (which seem to be the closes to snubfigters ST has to offer) those are also dead against TIEs due to inferior maneuverability and weapons.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-10-02 06:36pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?

Shuttlecraft suck.

A select few appear to be armed with low-power phasers. According
to the TMs, they have Type IV phasers IIRC--just a step above phaser
rifles (Type threes). And we've actually seen a shuttlecraft fire phasers before, in VGR's "Future's End pt. II." The effects were such that they might be able to destroy an unshielded TIE, but could they target them successfully? Probably not. They're not built for combat.

However, I disagree with someone's contention that a squadron
of TIEs could take out a Starfleet capital ship. Circa Kirk's time,
that's actually not such a stretch, but TNG onward...nah. It'd take
something with the crazy ordinance of the Fett's Slave One
or more. Most TIEs don't wield projectile weapons, after all.

Starfleet Runabouts could probably stand up to TIEs of various
models, though I don't know of any Starfleet capship that's
ever carried more than three of them at a time.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-10-02 06:58pm

TIE fighter wins with its first multi kiloton hit, which it gets in about 15 seconds.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-02 07:01pm

The shuttle won't even clear the shuttlebay!

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-02 07:06pm

Hmmm....What if we replace the shuttle with the Delta flyer?

That gives the feddie a whole 60 seconds to live!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-02 07:12pm

Spartan wrote:Hmmm....What if we replace the shuttle with the Delta flyer? That gives the feddie a whole 60 seconds to live!

Delta Flyer has 8 phaser emiters.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... al-aft.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... l-fore.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... -drive.jpg

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-02 07:15pm

The shuttle that was shown in Insurrection has 2 phaser emiters.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... le-top.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... bottom.jpg

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... -front.jpg

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2002-10-02 07:16pm

Spartan wrote:Hmmm....What if we replace the shuttle with the Delta flyer? That gives the feddie a whole 60 seconds to live!

LOL

The Delta Flyer is actually pretty awesome. She has Borg-inspired
offensive and defensive systems, and though we don't know the real
"substance" of her opponents, can take on ships that VGR herself struggled with. I'd give the DF an advantage over *any* Alfred Wong (no known
relation to our Sith Master) conceived TIE variant ever conceived.

Of course, the DF is far from the conventional shuttle, or Runabout.
She's heads and shoulders above anything the Federation can conceive
of for a good 30 years.

Evil Jerk · Post by **Evil Jerk** » 2002-10-02 07:32pm

The fact that the DF can take on some ST capships says more about how crappy some ST capships are to be taken down by a glorified shuttle with Flash Gordon control panels.

The Delta Flyer's power is exageratted anyway, stuff such as "we have Borg inspired systems on board!" doesn't really say much (I mean, are these the same Borg defensive systems that manage to not protect those cubes from getting royally barbecued by their enemies if they don't adapt?).
The DF seems to be a smaller, more manuverable runabout, which isn't saying much.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-02 08:16pm

That one person was right: shuttles are space-born delivery vans. Hell, they look like space born delivery vans, all boxy as hell! I don't believe any of the TNG shuttles have any weapons whatsoever, not certainly the shuttlepods.

BTW, except for runabouts and the DF I hate post TNG shuttles. Shuttles during Picard's time and before were cool because they were practical; boxes with small impulse engines strapped, on, extremely utliltarian, nice touchpad control panels (bad for a fighter but nice for a shuttle; I'd equate it to having a manual on a Corvette as opposed to having an auto on a Chevy Express van; you wouldn't want one on the other but they're nice to have on their respective vehicles), and just plain seats. Nice in a government owned Crown Vic kinda way. Now, with Voyager, they tried to jazz them all up with stupid fucking organic curves (type 8 and class 2) and now they just look like the typical stupid fanboy wankfest creations that so typify Voyager. Something that has gotten worse with Insurrection (trying to make a Chevy Express into a pretend Corvette). It sickens me.

The only real exception is the DF. I'd say it's more of a...say, Impala. With guns

Clearly meant to take on at least a partial fighter role, so not quite just a glorified shuttle, but also meant to do runabout duties if necessary. Really, it's just Starfleet's capship philosphy, in minature.

Runabouts look nice too, they look real utilitarian like a SW craft

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-02 09:54pm

Heh TIES that would take the Delta Flyer

TIE Phatom
100 Megaton Hello! Got a Cloaking device tooo

TIE Bomber
Gigaton Says Hi! Though not paritcarly manurable a Cap-ship attack torp would be rather bad for the Flyer

TIE Defender
Manuvrable to all get out, Tractor + Megaton Missles and Guns means the Flyers in for more hurt than anything else

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-10-02 10:31pm

Mr Bean wrote:Heh TIES that would take the Delta Flyer

TIE Phatom
100 Megaton Hello! Got a Cloaking device tooo

TIE Bomber
Gigaton Says Hi! Though not paritcarly manurable a Cap-ship attack torp would be rather bad for the Flyer

TIE Defender
Manuvrable to all get out, Tractor + Megaton Missles and Guns means the Flyers in for more hurt than anything else

Don't forget

TIE Advanced:
They can move like thy're frickin pirouetting in space and they still pack a punch.

TIE Raptor:
Another manueverable craft that shoudl have a decent armament for its size and combination of atmospheric and spaceborne agility.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-10-02 10:43pm

Heh TIES that would take the Delta Flyer

TIE Phatom
100 Megaton Hello! Got a Cloaking device tooo

TIE Bomber
Gigaton Says Hi! Though not paritcarly manurable a Cap-ship attack torp would be rather bad for the Flyer

TIE Defender
Manuvrable to all get out, Tractor + Megaton Missles and Guns means the Flyers in for more hurt than anything else

don't forget the Tie bomber's big brother, the Scimitar bombar

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2002-10-02 11:14pm

The Delta Flyer is actually pretty awesome. She has Borg-inspired
offensive and defensive systems, and though we don't know the real
"substance" of her opponents, can take on ships that VGR herself struggled with. I'd give the DF an advantage over *any* Alfred Wong (no known
relation to our Sith Master) conceived TIE variant ever conceived.

The fact that the DF has borg tech is impressive how?

Sure she's manuverable for a ST craft. But even her borg derived weapons and shielding are nothing when compared to SW tech. And if were talking about an elite TIE pilot like Fel vs. Lt. Paris, give me a break!

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-02 11:39pm

Muad'Dib wrote:Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?

The shuttles would only buy the ST ship a few minutes at best. Tie fighters can bob and weave in was that would make newton roll in his grave.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2002-10-02 11:48pm

well, if they get a lock on there might be a pilot swap....

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-10-02 11:59pm

ST shuttles vs TIE fighters are a non issue.
First given the quantity of TIEs and then the quality of the oponents. It's a wonder that TIE vs ST capship matchups arn't considered.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-02 11:59pm

SWPIGWANG wrote:well, if they get a lock on there might be a pilot swap....

Then the shuttles would own even the Defenders because Feddy pilots beamed in Defenders don't have a clue of how to work it.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-03 12:08am

RayCav of ASVS wrote:
SWPIGWANG wrote:well, if they get a lock on there might be a pilot swap....
Then the shuttles would own even the Defenders because Feddy pilots beamed in Defenders don't have a clue of how to work it.

it would just take both out of the fight

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-10-03 12:15am

Isolder74 wrote:
RayCav of ASVS wrote:
SWPIGWANG wrote:well, if they get a lock on there might be a pilot swap....
Then the shuttles would own even the Defenders because Feddy pilots beamed in Defenders don't have a clue of how to work it.
it would just take both out of the fight

Depends entirely on the Shuttle's console set-up. If they can speak English (I suppose they could learn) and if the buttons are in english, they could perhaps kamakazie the Fed ship. Otherwise, you're right. Most likely, you're right anyway.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-10-03 12:27am

RayCav of ASVS wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:
RayCav of ASVS wrote: Then the shuttles would own even the Defenders because Feddy pilots beamed in Defenders don't have a clue of how to work it.
it would just take both out of the fight
Depends entirely on the Shuttle's console set-up. If they can speak English (I suppose they could learn) and if the buttons are in english, they could perhaps kamakazie the Fed ship. Otherwise, you're right. Most likely, you're right anyway.

yes and the fed's would die cause there's no air inside a Tie Fighter

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2002-10-03 01:00am

Nobody wrote:
Muad'Dib wrote:Ok it's pretty much a given any Imperial Capital ship can wipe out any starfleet ship.

What about Shuttle craft. It's a point i've made myself before, Tie fighters will overwhelm a starship all on their own. But what if the Feds deploy their Shuttle craft? A Galaxy Glass ship carries roughly 10 shuttle craft of different types. Would that have any effect?
Distraction...

IIRC the Shuttle craft are Unarmed, and have only transporters... So theirs reall nothing they could do but TIE bait...

Actually, there are some that are heavily armed. Most of them have at least two phaser strips, while heavily armed ones such as the Type 10 Carry two Type V phaser arrays with two micro torp tubes. And the federation also has fighters. Nasty little buggers they are.

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